Stumped ... can u identify my nightmare?

[Tonatiuh]

hello infirmary,its been a while....im having a problem w some yellowing to dying leafs that i can not seem to identify.

in ffof soil,with a little EWC,lime,and perlite in it....fed with maxi bloom occasionally i will add some liquid karma,ive also already treated them with cal/mag....the ph is right...and ive treated them for pests with some SNS 209,i thought i saw some thrip trails,but i havnt seen any bugs live or dead on them,and believe me ive been looking.not to say they arent there,just that i havnt seen them,only the signs of them.

theyve been in flower for 22 days now,this does not start until they are flipped.in veg there is absolutely no problem at all.


this problem starts as discolored yellow/rusty looking tiny spots,then turns the leaf yellow,eventually leaving them curling up and dying off.
ive treated for pests,ph is on point,and theyve gotten cal/mag treatment...

you can see the spotting in the bottom leaf,im totally stumped.

then...

then...

i will make a post after this one that shows my garden and all the healthy plants got a few tht look like this,and id hate for them all to start w these symptoms before i can get it under control...all the help and advice u guys can give would be appreciated..

see the leaf damage?...

hope someone out here can diagnose this for me,ive tried and tried but im still stumped.
thanks in advance,
peace-T-

 

[Tonatiuh]

a few pics of healthier plants...

in this pic u can see the problem scattered around the room in the bottom of the shot

any and all help and advice is appreciated.thank you in advance IC community.
peace-T-

 

[Gelado`]

Look for crawlers in your soil after you water...white ones. Looks like the damage I get from the pest I have (root aphids I believe). Neem and worm castings keep the damage down and I kill any I see on my Smartpots on sight by crushing them under my thumb!

 

[ozzieAI]

i have been following your grows for a while now T and am a little surprised to see you here...have to say your pics look very similar to my plants when i was fighting root aphids...have you checked your roots? RA will spread to your other plants if they are the culprit

wish you all the best

 

[Granger2]

Yes, I thought the same thing as Ozzie. Do a thorough root inspection. You can also put some potato slices on the soil surface, and after 2-3 days look to see if pests have gathered on the soil side of the spud. Good luck. -granger

 

[BlOoDShAnTi I]

Thank you so much for this thread and answers....I'm living the same nightmare as you Tonatiuh.

 

[Tonatiuh]

thank you guys...i went to the shop today to get something to kill any root aphids if thats them,but it wont be in until wed...i also ordered a blulab combo meter,since they didnt have one in stock they let me borrow a blulab soil ph tester,i just got done testing the pots and theyre are between 6.0 and 6.4...thats low ya?...,now i just need to figure the best way to get it back right.i think i should water w i highre ph?like around 7 and see if that gets it right.ive never had this issue so i dont know exactly how to mend the problem.
ill give the roots a good look thru as soon as i go back down,i just wanted to come and report the progress that way i might have some advice by this evening.
again thanks i appreciate the responses.i will keep u guys posted.

oz,thanks for the interest in my grows yo...i havnt had to come thru the infirmary for a while but i know where to come when im stumped.and i know ill never learn it all so i aint too proud to ask for help when i need it,also not shy to help where i can.thanks again

peace-T-

 

[Gelado`]

6.0-6.4 is great IMO. Good luck! I wouldn't use a pesticide myself as they are very harmful to the environment and persist for a long, long time...

 

[Granger2]

Go to the "Fungus Gnats or Winged Root Aphid" thread in this section. Careful what you spray with. But you don't need to spray, you need to do a 30 minute soak with entire container below water level. Pretty much anything you use. Careful what you use goes double when you're in bloom. Don't treat unless you see them. They won't be on the soil surface. Removal from container necessary, unless you do the potato thing. Good luck. -granger

 

[Gelado`]

I've had very good results with neem and worm castings watered in and top dressed every time I water; still got the aphids, but almost NO leaf issues and my plants are thriving. I also kill them on sight, but that may be a little harder with a grow your size!

 

[Tonatiuh]

Gelado-thanks for that bro,for real...after reading that thread u told me to go to for the last few hours im pretty convinced thats what my problem is...all them dudes are describing my exact same symptoms AND its happening at the same time,right after they are flipped to 12/12.

im already waiting on the azamaxi already paid for it so i think ill use it this round to save what i can since i have time to...hopefully...i think its good for the RA...also gonna pick up some of the other highly suggested things in that thread...bayer tree m shrub or the merit 75,and some gnatrol...after i have them in check ill go to other methods of treating them.i hate to use the strong stuff but when its a war i think u have to bust out the big guns.these things will be detrimental to my harvest if not eradicated as fast as possible,ive seen it happen w last run of uk cheese.there are pics in my album of that tortured grow...i shouldve camme here then but i was trying to battle what i thought was gonna be easily mended w cal/mag....couldnt have been more wrong from what ive read tonight.
hopefully i can get thru this w out scrapping all my veg,i wont mind starting new moms in a cloner and getting rid of all old ones,but if i have to scrap all them 1 gl pots it could set me back a few months,and i cant be having that at all.

can u tell me the method u used,ratios whatever info u can on how u use the neem and ewc?

these plants have about 5-6 weeks left till harvest..i need to keep them green as i can until i want them to lose color...shit has me frustrated,but hopefully the problem is diagnosed and i will come out on the winning side of this battle im about to go thru.

ill keep u guys posted of course.
peace-T-

 

[Gelado`]

No problem, glad to help!

Azatrol is neem, so that's fine all the way up to harvest if you're watering it in. It isn't harmful and won't affect the taste of your buds. Try using 3-4 ml per quart and shake it up real well. The imid in Bayer will work, but is really terrible for you and the environment.

I really can't recommend using worm castings enough though--it will do wonders for your plants' health. I put 3-4 tablespoons on top of my coco/peat before I water, and I mix in other amendments into the EWC if I'm top dressing. Right now since they're in flowering my top dress consists of EWC, high P guano and brown sugar. I'll throw in some epsom salts before I water them next to keep the Mg/S levels up.

 

[Hash Man]

sure you dont have broad mites?
they have been ripping me up for years and i just found out i had them this year. i thought i was having nurtient issues or ph issues with various plants but now that i know what to look for, i had those pesky suckers for the ast 5 years.
if you arent treating with avid you may have them and not know.

if you are doing everything right and getting unexplained issues look out for em.

 

[Tonatiuh]

thanks Gelado,appreciate the info bro.
peace-T-

Hash Man-thanks for chiming in bro...i have used avid,just about 1 week ago.i think it slowed them down but i dnt want to use it on my flowers again because it stays in there a while..although i would use it in veg still.no i dont think it is broad mites because the symptoms in the rot aphid thread are spot on,including the time it occurs...has to be the same issue.
thanks for posting up all the same though.
peace-T-

 

[Tonatiuh]

after all ur posts and some extensive reading last night im convinced it IS root aphids.after reading the root aphid thread(,great thread btw tons of info)...i know thats what i have,when i was reading them dudes problems it was like they were talking about my grow,i couldnt have typed it any better.same symptoms same everything,down to the time it starts happpening,right after they get flipped to flower.
so today i will be ordering some nematodes.
i will use an imid product along with an azamax drench in veg,and in flower ill use the nematodes and a azamax drench...as from all i read and from experienced people in chat i think this is the best fastest plan of attack.
im gonna be scraping all my moms and start new ones in the ez cloner so no soil for them to go to,i just hope i dont have to scrap all the 1 gallon pots because that could set me back a few months and i cant be having that.too many people depend on me.

anyone know a good root stimulator i can use in flower?because from all i read i know my roots are getting eaten by these little bastards,so if i cant get the root system back healthy as well as my foliage my big beautiful girls will not be able to eat/drink like they need to,to get the best they can get.
peace-T-

 

[DinosaurCocks]

thats nitrogen toxicity... maaaaybe mag deficiency, but i would guess nute burn, it's def NOT any bugs!

 

[Tonatiuh]

dino-.....^^^yea thats what i thought 3 months ago.def not any deficiency....read the root aphids thread bro,it will explain...everyone thinks its what u said at 1st,and also is mistaken for ph issues.looks the same,but its not.
peace-T-

 

[dank.frank]

Tona...how much silicone is in you mix or do you add any additional?

I decided this was silicone toxicity - but it was NEVER as extreme / progressive as what you are showing here:

I have been told - can't find any thing solid on - that FF now has an East Coast facility that makes / packages their products...and the difference between the two being pine compost vs redwood compost - again, how much of that is true, I don't know..

However, I know several people on the east who have stopped using FFOF and their problems went away - nothing else changed.

I know it's a bit late to switch this round - but, IF it was a problem brought on by the use of pine the soil process, it would be making things more acidic and your pH would be off as a result - however, you seem to have that in check and in a reasonable range.

I hope you get it figured out, brother - good vibes your way - I know stuff like this can be frustrating to the max!



dank.Frank

 

[ozzieAI]

something i forgot to mention is that top dressing with neem cake has stopped both RA and fungus gnats in my grows completely...just bury under the top to stop it from going moldy

have you tried the potato trick yet?

 

[yerboyblue]

Hey Tonatiuh, good luck with battling the root aphids man, I feel your pain. I looked at your post and said RAs but noticed many already beat me to it. I just want to say that if you are just watering in the poisons, you will be knocking them back, but won't be getting completely rid of them. Most people on the RA thread recommend repeated root soakings, which is not always possible. They are tricky little fuckers.

If you aren't running perpetual, I would recommend getting an aero cloner and getting to where you can clean out everything and start over from clone, run a few days of lights on/off while spraying the room/s with spectracide. The extra time between runs sucks, but hey, it can be a life saver. I also started heat treating my soil in the oven, but that's blasphemy to some people around here. I just feel like there's too many people claiming their soil gave them RAs and I'm not taking any chances.