Foray into Coco (grow 1.5) - All constructive comments welcome

[JohnQQ]

Hello ICMag community. Low post count and no rep but I've been lurking; of course I'm still a noob and appreciate the help you guys so kindly give out. Good to be here. Sup Ninja!

Groovy. Now that the formalities are out of the way, I'm about halfway through my first grow; Nirvana NL started with chems (Lucas Micro and Bloom ratio) but now just transplanted into organic. I gotta admit, I think living by principles nowadays is going to kill both my plants and I :/

So, while I'm waiting for the NL to recover, I'm planning on starting a Nirvana White Widow in coco. I'm doing this because my partner, whom I love dearly, seems to benefit from strains high in resin (it's a weak hypothesis, certainly, but this is what it looks like from my perspective). I've got chronic major depression, but seeing her in dysthymic states kills me, so I'm trying to get this going asap for her. Given the speed I've seen plants grow in coco, I figured this would be a good way of hedging my bets on having a supply ready before December if something bad happens to the NL.

My question to you, ICMag community, is whether to go with chems for the WW or organic. On principle, I'd go with organic, but for pragmatic purposes of speed and yield, are chems the better option?

Right now, I have a 2 gallon smart pot holding coco I've run several gallons of (tap) water through for rinses and have run about a liter of RO water with 1/2 a tbs. of Epsom salt through. I'm waiting for my CalMag+ to come tomorrow before I even consider it ready. Have I missed anything? Are there any suggestions for a better set-up that doesn't involve pumps or tables (it HAS to be handwatered this grow because I don't have the luxury of space for a SOG or even a table). It's always about the stealth in my unfortunately backward land

Much respect to all of you guys. It's a beautiful thing going on here, and I want to be able to contribute in the future. I figure the only way I'll be able to do that is to learn on my own using the advice you guys give. Thank you all for your collective time and effort.

Respectfully,
JohnQQ

 

[JohnQQ]

EDIT (sorry for the double post)

Information that might be helpful

*My NL is sitting in some the LC #2 recipe from the organic soil stickies that I've been letting sit for about 2 weeks with some mixing and light watering for aeration. I topdressed it with EWC and some Jersey greensand (since I didn't have it at the time I mixed it all up). It should be set nute wise considering how long it's sat. Microbes better not be lazy!

I have some ACT made with just EWC bubbling (been bubbling for roughly 18 hours as of the time of this post).

I do have a multi-tester (Hanna Combo pH and EC)

I have Dr Earth Blood, Bone, and Kelp meal, azomite, diatomaceous earth (red earth DE I think?), Jersey greensand, dolomitic lime (powdered), EJ Mycorrhizae (I wish I'd read Ganja Din's thread before buying it), and Flora Micro and Bloom for nutes.

Mediums: Black Gold loose coco (this seems to be a particularly salty batch), small perlite, vermiculite, FFOF (hopefully going to be slowly placed into my organic medium I'm cooking atm), and a GH Coco block (11lbs expanded I believe)

Containers: Literally just Smart Pots (I have a lot from my food gardening work)

Light Source: ProSource 180W Illuminator (absolutely love it for my food garden)

If anyone wishes for more information, please just ask and I'll try to provide it.

 

[RonSmooth]

If I wanted to grow organically, I would use soil.

IMO, coco is great because you start with a "clean slate" and control what, when and how much of anything your plants get. Using nutrients in readily available form (non-organic) fits with the control aspect of using coco.

Organics relies on interactions of a whole myriad of things working together over time. The nutrients are not immediately available to the plant so maintaining precise control is not like it is with coco. To make organics work in coco, it would seem that you would need to amend the coco enough that it defeats the purpose. I think growing organically is a worthwhile pursuit but straight coco is a poor medium when it comes to maximizing its potential.

I use maxibloom at 7g/gal throughout the life of the plant. I have soft tap water (50 ppm) and was using cal-mag plus until recently. I am currently using only maxibloom and dynagro's "protekt" as a pH "up" and a silicon supplement. MB contains Ca and Mg, I'll have to wait and see if it is enough to cover the plants needs.

I feed the plants everytime I water (around 1.8 EC and 5.6 pH) and have noticed no ill effects. Only vigorous growth. The exception would be newly rooted cuttings and seedlings which get only water or a weak nutrient solution until they have established roots.

Maxibloom is inexpensive, simple and effective. I have a cabinet full of bottles I have used in the past and will not use again. I like to keep things simple.

I have no experience with any other brand but Botinicare's cocogro. I use the blocks. I just hydrate them with tap water w/2.5mL cal-mag plus. The product seems to be high quality and although I have never measured the EC of the coco specifically, I havent noticed anything that suggests it is "hot" for plants at any stage.

 

[JohnQQ]

Thank you RonSmooth, for confirming a suspicion of mine.

I figured chemical would make the most sense considering the pH inert nature of coco and how it basically looked like a blank board as a medium (aside from the CEC capacity).

I heard a lot of success from users of H3ad's formula, but would the original lucas ratio work as well? I will get CalMag+ tomorrow but I do have Epsom Salts on hand.

Just for more accuracy in forming opinions, I'll list the percentages of the salts I have right now.

9.

 

[JohnQQ]

Sorry for the double post (cat jumped on my mouse)

9.8% Mg (soluble)
12.9% S (combined sulfur)

the active ingredient
Magnesium sulfate USP (heptahydrate)

 

[RonSmooth]

The reason I use MB is because it is very close to the Lucas Formula and is a one part dry fertilizer. I have no experience with using other nutrients to make up the ratios in Lucas.

I have never used epsom salts only cal-mag plus but have recently cut that as well as I discovered that MB contains higher levels of Ca and Mg than most other nutrients. I didnt like the additional N in cal-mag and I dont want to use anything that isnt necessary. I have only just began not using cal-mag so I cant say for sure if it is needed.

It didnt harm the plants when I was using it though and my plants are currently in week 3 of flowering. They have had cal-mag added to the nutrients every watering until now so that might have been enough.

 

[JohnQQ]

Hey all, the White Widow has shown a gorgeous taproot (pearly white and long!) and is resting in a rapid rooter firmly planted into the coco. Now I know the usual rules of "NO NUTES UNTIL 2 WEEKS" (put in caps because I was an idiot and didn't listen the first time). However, with coco, do I risk flushing out all the nutes I charged the coco when I'm just giving regular r/o water? Also, if I were to adjust the pH of the water, I'm guessing I'd want it in the 6.0 range (+ or - .2)?

 

[RetroGrow]

As already stated, use Maxibloom for simplicity. It's the K.I.S.S. method. That thread can be found here:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=191645
In addition to the Maxibloom, I would add Rhizotonic (Canna) for root stimulation in the beginning of the grow. Great root growth=bigger plants, yield. Also add silica. That's all you will need, although some use a bloom booster in flower. I use Bloombastic. It works, however, a bloom booster is not NECESSARY with Maxibloom, so use it only if you want it and can afford it, but don't overdo it. A little goes a long way, and Maxibloom already has built in bloom booster, as the name suggests, so skip bloom booster if you want. I would also recommend Canna's "Boost", which is a growth stimulator. It really works in producing bigger, more resinous, and better smelling plants, however it is expensive and not a necessity.
The other suggestion I would make is to use Hempy buckets. They will blow away any other kind of pot in terms of yield, and they are foolproof. They work especially well with coco, and a 2 gallon bucket from Home Depot is all you will need, even for huge plants.
Here is the link for Hempy buckets with coco:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=147954
Note, the single hole in the Hempy bucket should be drilled 2 inches from the bottom of the bucket. That area becomes the rez, and should be filled with perlite, preferably chunky. I have gotten huge yields using this method. You can see photos on the last (I think) page of the thread.
There is also a Hempy bucket thread, which is the traditional Hempy method, before he switched to coco for bigger yields.
That thread is here:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=98419
It's a long thread, but the basics can be found on the first few pages. Only difference is you will be using coco instead of perlite/vermiculite.
Hempy buckets are hand watered, and you will get better results by watering/feeding daily, as this provides fresh oxygen to the plants, which stimulates growth tremendously. I have gotten one pound plants in 2 gallon Hempy buckets. That's with a two month veg though. One month veg can achieve 5-8 ounces easily, strain dependent. Hempy buckets blow away "smart pots", and they are really cheap. I ditched my smart pots after discovering Hempys.
You cannot get a simpler, more prolific, or more foolproof method, IMO, and I've tried them all.
Last suggestion is to use Canna coco. No rinsing necessary. There are other good brands, but Canna is the best I have tried. Stay away from bricked coco, or off brands, IMO. I forgot to add: use tap water, NOT RO water. Tap already has calcium, depending where you live. I have never needed Cal/Mag while using tap water. You can call your local water company to get it's chemical composition, or just test the parts per million. Unless it's really low, you shouldn't need extra calcium with tap water. Also, Maxibloom has cal/mag in it.

 

[JohnQQ]

Thank you for the information RetroGrow. I'm kicking myself for not going Hempy originally because I've been fascinated by the concept since I read about it (here, no less).

I actually have some Maxibloom on the way! I can't argue with K.I.S.S.
I regrettably don't have the funds for Rhizotonic or a bloom booster but like you said, Maxibloom already has a booster. What brand of silica do you recommend? I'm guessing it's a liquid form since this is coco.

Canna coco would be a dream come true, but unfortunately, neither of the stores near me carry it (just the Black Gold). Is there a retailer that supports ICMag or one anyone recommends in particular? I'd also like opinions on whom to avoid (be it due to reputation, customer service, or what have you).
My tapwater is actually quite... erm... filthy to be honest. I don't know what color your water is, but mine has been a pale neon green for the past 3 weeks. The water company keeps promising to come out and fix our building's lines, but I haven't seen any change yet (if we're lucky, the rich guy below us will threaten to sue and things will be fixed ).

Thank you for your input, people. Much appreciated.

 

[RetroGrow]

Any silica. It doesn't matter.
Avoid Black Gold coco....root aphids.
Roots Organic & B'Cuzz are highly recommended. Also Botanicaire. Roots Organic needs no rinsing.
If tap water is O.K. to drink, it's O.K. for plants.
If you are in an old building, it's probably the pipes. Minerals in the water will not hurt plants. It helps them generally.
You can get triacontanol powder online @ MBFerts.com. That is the active ingredient in Boost, and it's cheap, whereas Boost is very expensive. Also sold on Ebay. Well worth it.
Hempy is simple & foolproof. 2 gallon buckets are $2 @ HD, and that's all you need. Take the handles off the buckets.
If you're starting from seed, use Miracle Grow or Foxfarms seed starter mix in solo cups (clear). When cups are filled with roots, transplant directly to Hempy buckets/coco. Works with clones too. Has Mycorrhiza, beneficial fungus.

 

[opek]

If tap water is O.K. to drink, it's O.K. for plants.
If you are in an old building, it's probably the pipes. Minerals in the water will not hurt plants. It helps them generally.

Even if your water's EC is as high as .7, like mine?

 

[JohnQQ]

Avoid Black Gold coco....root aphids.

I'm just getting over a battle with fungus gnats so when I prepped the coco, I basically put it in a pyrex dish, soaked it, then nuked it for about 45 seconds. Are they a rather hardy pest? I don't doubt something bad is lurking in my coco, but I don't think most pests can survive a 1250W microwave at full power for almost a minute (aside from water bears). Since the seed is sprouting in the Black gold right now (technically in a rapid rooter surrounded by coco), should I move it out?

Thanks for the tip on MGferts. Would I need to acquire a few other inactive ingredients to add to the triacontanol or is it, alone, ok to use with just water?

Could I innoculate some FFOF with mycorrhizae and let the seedling sit in a cup with the soil until transplant time?

 

[RetroGrow]

Don't put seedling in FFOF. Too Hot. Will burn seedlings! Seed starter mix! It's cheap! Get small bag of Miracle Grow Seed starter mix in Home Depot/Lowes. Fox Farms also makes it.
Black gold has bad rep, but if you nuked it, I guess it's O.K. I would not use Black Gold though. It's probably the worst brand of coco.
RE:triacontanol:instructions are on website. They have kit with everything you need. Polysorbate 20, not water.

 

[JohnQQ]

Figures. Seems a miracle my NL got this far in FFOF.

Did you mean mbferts.com? That I know of, but MGferts doesn't go anywhere (unused url I guess).

 

[RetroGrow]

Figures. Seems a miracle my NL got this far in FFOF.

Did you mean mbferts.com? That I know of, but MGferts doesn't go anywhere (unused url I guess).

Yes, MBferts....sorry...typo.
Link for triacontanol:
http://mbferts.com/TRIA-Triacontanol_c20.htm
PH for coco=5.8