Caterpillars, harvest early or spray/pick and wait

[Stoner Bob]

My first grow, so Im not positive on when this should finish, but most trichromes are milky at this point, calyxes are swollen, not all hairs are red.

so cal , la area.

It was over 100 a week ago, started cooling down a few days ago, with last night was low in the 50's with fog. Foggy again today.

I have 5 plants going and yesterday noticed brown patches on a few buds on two of the plants. after inspecting them and digging around into the bud, I found shit, then the caterpillar. not sure if it's a cutworm or some other type of moth.


Yesterday evening, I sprayed one 32oz spray bottle of each spinosad and BT to water mix. But I'm thinking that the spray did not get down inside the buds enough. looking this morning I found a few and grabbed these pictures.

Today I found around 8 caterpillars, wonder how many more are in there waiting to infect the plant.

 

[soil margin]

Given the size of the larger colas I would probably harvest them now, then spray all the smaller remaining stuff and give them 2-3 weeks, but I absolutely hate losing any portion of my crop to caterpillars so that might influence my decision.

 

[DankTreez14]

I'm set to lose about 50% of my crop to these fuckers.

 

[Stoner Bob]

OK. I chopped one plant that was pretty much ready, that was the plant I only found 3 caterpillars in. but all the trichs were cloudy, and less than 10% amber.

The other plant, I'm still debating what to do. I checked it again, and found two more caterpillars. I checked buds next to the ones previously checked that had brown spots. but these two were in new buds that had not turned brown from their newer shit that was there.


here is one of them

 

[Stoner Bob]

Given the size of the larger colas I would probably harvest them now, then spray all the smaller remaining stuff and give them 2-3 weeks, but I absolutely hate losing any portion of my crop to caterpillars so that might influence my decision.

OK, One plant that I spotted a couple on I just took down. It was close anyhow.

The one in the pic. I'm gonna wait another day to monitor the plant. Maybe spray it again with BT tomorrow morning. This time Making sure to spray between the buds better. I've read allot that says you can pretty much Bacillus Thuringiensis up until harvest.

I'm set to lose about 50% of my crop to these fuckers.

That sucks man. Have you had the problem in the past?

 

[Granger2]

You said the calyxes are swollen, and the trichs are cloudy with 10% amber. If it were me, especially with high humidity and caterpillars, I'd harvest now. At least the buds that have been in sun. You could leave the buds that have been shaded. With foggy weather you risk a big loss to Botritis, aka Bud Rot or Gray Mold. Good luck. -granger

 

[DankTreez14]

That sucks man. Have you had the problem in the past?[/quote]


This is my first outdoor grow down in socal but my countless other outdoor grows in northern cal never got these caterpillars. I wonder if it's just down here with this hot ass weather?

 

[NorCalZero]

I'm in norcal, got the exact same bug on one of my plants now, fuckerz are hard to find as they are almost the exact same color as the plant. I also spotted some very small black dots in a cluster of about 10, not sure if those are their eggs or not, I think it is some kind of moth. I'm regretting not using a yellow sticky trap, might have caught one of the flyers if they are being air dropped in. Not going to spray this late in flower, just check every bud everyday and kill any I find. I had never seen them on any plants before. I might try sevin-dust in veg next year, if left unattended these things could wreak some real havoc on a crop!

 

[Stoner Bob]

They do have good camo. One picture I took I thought it was just of the shit trail, then when looking at it on the computer I see that thing looking right at me.


I did cut down the plant that had all cloudy and less than 10% amber trichs. That plant I only found a couple caterpillars on. I have the whole plant hanging to dry right now. I'll check on it tomorrow for any further damage.



The plant that seems to have the most caterpillars is one that I think has at least two more weeks to go if possible. there are only a few amber trichs, the majority cloudy, and some clear. 90% or more of the pistils are still white, with many having browned at the tip.


here is a pic of the whole plant in question. as I went out to take this, I checked some buds and found another caterpillar, before sunset, I sprayed it with another mix of: 32oz water to 5-8ml Safer Caterpillar Killer ( BT )


The area these plants are in get a constant breeze. so even though the humidity is high last night and possibly for the next week, I hope that general mold should stay away. while overnight temps will be in the 50's, day temps are 70-85 for the next week.

But. the mold caused by caterpillar shit is a different story, and I'm not too sure how easily that mold will spread I've cut off or picked off the buds I noticed browning on. Hopefully I'm not spreading anything when digging around in the buds. It's sticky in there...

whole plant:

Pic of one of the buds I noticed browning, then dug through to find caterpillar. I cut this and a couple buds below it off on that branch.

This bud is what stage most of the plant is in. :

 

[ozzieAI]

those little fuckers are my borg...using neem as soil drench really helps keep the numbers down but during peak times i still get a few...they also seem to like some plants over others, my white widow is bug free but my kalichakra is not. spraying neem/spinosad works well if you get it where the bugs are. often you can't when the buds closer to maturity, your 3rd pick was me earlier today....

 

[soil margin]

I'm in norcal, got the exact same bug on one of my plants now, fuckerz are hard to find as they are almost the exact same color as the plant. I also spotted some very small black dots in a cluster of about 10, not sure if those are their eggs or not, I think it is some kind of moth. I'm regretting not using a yellow sticky trap, might have caught one of the flyers if they are being air dropped in. Not going to spray this late in flower, just check every bud everyday and kill any I find. I had never seen them on any plants before. I might try sevin-dust in veg next year, if left unattended these things could wreak some real havoc on a crop!

Those black dots are the caterpillars shit. The more black dots the more they have been eating and the longer they have been there. Find them all ASAP is my rec, I waited a couple days and lost a couple nice buds to them sadly.

 

[LilMan72003]

Time to chop.

Sorry

 

[Stoner Bob]

Just now, I sprayed this plant again with BT & SPinosad before sunset. I didn't notice any more brown bud areas, but I did find two catepillars this morning. One very small and one the same size as above.
The buds I found damaged or and had caterpillars, I cut off and tossed.

I've decided to try and take her to finish. also fed the plant some Big Bloom today

It smells like lemon candy.

 

[talktosamson]

I have mine of the run this year. Im not sure why, probably just natures cycle but there are a lot more on everyones garden this year than in past years. Im hearing devistation from unchecked and sprayed gardens in my area. Spinosad seems to work best, ive been spraying every three days or so and that has done the trick. That and my wife and I wake up, drink coffee ad go pick the little fuckers. If you catch them at sunrise before they start to burrow, it minimizes the damage. The ones hatching now are stunted and retarted from the spinosad ad never make it far before i find and squish them.

Better to fight the battle against these fuckers and let your herb mature. You have worked hard all these months keeping your ladies healthy and happy to be defeated by a fucking caterpillar!

 

[soil margin]

Better to fight the battle against these fuckers and let your herb mature. You have worked hard all these months keeping your ladies healthy and happy to be defeated by a fucking caterpillar!

I know what you're saying but at the same time it's so freaking disappointing to grow these girls for months and then lose huge portions of your crop to some damn worms.

 

[SooperSmurph]

I think this is the species giving you problems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicoverpa_zea

Tomato Fruitworms / Cotton Bullworms / Corn Earworms

Eggs are individually deposited on leaf hairs and corn silks and hatch in about three to four days. Following hatching, larvae normally feed on the reproductive structures of the plant and usually develop through four to six instars.[8] Older larvae become aggressive and cannibalistic, resulting in one or two larvae per feeding site (Boyd 2008, p. 143). Mature larvae migrate to the soil, where they pupate for 12 to 16 days. Adult moths collect nectar or other plant exudates from a large number of plants, and live for 12 to 16 days. Females lay up to 2500 eggs in their lifetimes.

Heavy neem (drench or seedmeal sowing) treatment of your site and the surrounding area before planting should help, beyond that i'm not sure, these guys look smaller than tomato hornworms so it'll be more difficult picking them off the plants by hand.

Someone mentioned certain plants being avoided by the worms, i've noticed this with mites as well, and it's usually plants with a very certain terpene profile, the one in my garden that repels pests like no one's business is Durbin Poison.

If the buggers hate that smell, perhaps plant some citronella plants among your garden? Would help make evening gardening less annoying as well. Seems like SM90 would send them packing if that turns out to be the case.

 

[Stoner Bob]

I have mine of the run this year. Im not sure why, probably just natures cycle but there are a lot more on everyones garden this year than in past years. Im hearing devistation from unchecked and sprayed gardens in my area. Spinosad seems to work best, ive been spraying every three days or so and that has done the trick. That and my wife and I wake up, drink coffee ad go pick the little fuckers. If you catch them at sunrise before they start to burrow, it minimizes the damage. The ones hatching now are stunted and retarted from the spinosad ad never make it far before i find and squish them.

Better to fight the battle against these fuckers and let your herb mature. You have worked hard all these months keeping your ladies healthy and happy to be defeated by a fucking caterpillar!

I'll definitely be out there hunting these things in the morning.

I went a little heavy on the Spinosad mix. about 3x the normal ratio. added 3tbsp to 32 oz water, along with 5-7ml BT. I'm glad to hear its working for others on this pest in CA.


The one I found today did seem to be stunned somewhat, and not moving around like the ones I caught yesterday. Maybe they got a little taste of my BT/spiinosad spray the other day.



Does anyone know the type of fungus/mold these things create from their shit? I'm curious if picking around is spreading it at all.

 

[Stoner Bob]

seeing the number of eggs moths can lay is pretty depressing. I haven't seen any egg clusters that look like images searching caterpillar eggs , so I'm hoping the bitch just injected a few buds with her eggs.


I was leaning towards Lettuce or Beet Armyworm on the type of caterpillar this might be.

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/r441300711.html

Scientific Name: Spodoptera exigua

DESCRIPTION OF THE PEST
Beet armyworms lay their eggs in distinctive cottony masses on leaf surfaces. Newly hatched beet armyworms are small green worms that often feed in groups. Older beet armyworms vary in color, but usually have many fine, wavy, light-colored stripes down the back and a broader stripe down each side. The body appears hairless.

DAMAGE
These worms feed in the crown of the plant and can severely stunt or kill seedlings. The potential for damage is reduced between thinning and head formation. Once heads form, beet armyworms may cause serious damage by boring in from the bottom of the head, and often damage can't be seen from above. In the San Joaquin Valley, fall populations are much more damaging than spring populations.

MANAGEMENT
Biological Control
Many natural enemies attack beet armyworms. Among the most common parasites are the wasps, Hyposoter exiguae and Chelonus insularis, and the tachinid fly, Lespesia archippivora. Viral diseases also kill significant numbers.

Cultural Control
Disc fields immediately following harvest to kill larvae and pupae. Destroy weeds along field borders.

Organically Acceptable Methods
Cultural and biological control and sprays of Bacillus thuringiensis and the Entrust formulation of spinosad are acceptable for use on organically certified crops, but spinosad is very detrimental to populations of syrphid flies.

Monitoring and Treatment Decisions
Start monitoring before seedlings emerge by checking for egg masses and young larvae in surrounding weeds. If populations are high on weeds, watch carefully for larvae on seedlings.

From germination to head formation, check at least 25 plants in each quadrant of a 40- to 80-acre field twice a week. In fields where the crop is heading, stop at five different locations in each quadrant and sample five plants at each location. Fields smaller than 40 acres may require fewer samples. Check for egg masses and young larvae. Loopers, cabbageworms, armyworms, corn earworms, tobacco budworms, cutworms, and other caterpillars that feed on leaves and heads of lettuce can be assessed together, but species identification is important in choosing an insecticide..

Treat if you find an average of one second or third instar larva per 10 plants. Most insecticides are more effective against young larvae than against eggs, so wait until the majority of eggs have hatched before treating. On older plants, after thinning and before heading, treat if more than one larva is found on every two plants. Treat just before heading if this threshold is exceeded. For armyworm control, the best time to apply insecticide is at dawn or dusk (twilight hours).

Both BT and Spinosad are listed as pesticides that help with these.

 

[Stoner Bob]

Just to update.


I sprayed each evening approx 10ml Safer Caterpillar Killer with B.T. to 32oz water in a spray bottle, and sprayed the 3 plants I have remaining, since I did notice a couple caterpillars in one other plant.

I sprayed 5 days in a row just before sunset. One of those days I put Monterey Garden Insect Spray (SPinosad) into the mix

I haven't noticed any more browning or moldy areas from the caterpillars, and while inspecting a couple buds I didn't notice any caterpillars yesterday. I'll probably spray BT every 2 or 3 days or so up until the plants look like they have a week to go.


the reason I spray in the evening is because I've read that these like to hide during sunlight and move in the evening. So I figured that they would have a greater chance of coming in contact with the BT if I sprayed it closer to their active time.

 

[soil margin]

the reason I spray in the evening is because I've read that these like to hide during sunlight and move in the evening. So I figured that they would have a greater chance of coming in contact with the BT if I sprayed it closer to their active time.

Good call, BT also evaporates/breaks down quickly in sunlight, so it will be a lot more effective at reaching cats if sprayed after sunset.