Syria, chem weapons, assad or al qaida?

[Crusader Rabbit]

edited to add:Temporary Discussion for entertainment only, NO FIGHTING!

Here "we" British Supplied Serotin to Syria too?

Rebels "Allegedly" Gased Folk so HOW tf did they Aquire this!???

Dope time, this is totally off topic but it is an important one, so I'll address it since WWIII is an important topic.

Since both of the US invasions of Iraq were justified by fraudulent evidence, I've been very interested and leery of the justifications for this next war. I've read four different accounts which blame the rebels for the gassing event;

1. Saudis supplied the weapons but didn't provide training in their use, which resulted in an accidental detonation while they were being handled.

2. Saudis provided the weapons which were used in a "false flag " attack upon civilians to bring the US into the war.

3. Rebels used captured chemical weapons to stage a false flag attack.

4.Rebels purchased the materials to make sarin.

The UN inspection team found many rocket impacts which show that it was a genuine attack. There were two impact sites which allowed the rocket trajectories to be calculated (with one, the rocket punched through an awning leaving a hole slightly offset from vertical above the impact crater in a patio). Plotting the trajectories back to their source indicates the rockets were launched from government held territory within or very near the Syrian Republican Guard compound which holds their chemical weapons unit.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/09/17/202429/un-calculations-of-poison-rockets.html#.Uj2Pfn-sGk0

I know that this dialog should be and will be binned, but I had to reply.

 

[southflorida]

Dope time, this is totally off topic but it is an important one, so I'll address it since WWIII is an important topic.

Since both of the US invasions of Iraq were justified by fraudulent evidence, I've been very interested and leery of the justifications for this next war. I've read four different accounts which blame the rebels for the gassing event;

1. Saudis supplied the weapons but didn't provide training in their use, which resulted in an accidental detonation while they were being handled.

2. Saudis provided the weapons which were used in a "false flag " attack upon civilians to bring the US into the war.

3. Rebels used captured chemical weapons to stage a false flag attack.

4.Rebels purchased the materials to make sarin.

The UN inspection team found many rocket impacts which show that it was a genuine attack. There were two impact sites which allowed the rocket trajectories to be calculated (with one, the rocket punched through an awning leaving a hole slightly offset from vertical above the impact crater in a patio). Plotting the trajectories back to their source indicates the rockets were launched from government held territory within or very near the Syrian Republican Guard compound which holds their chemical weapons unit.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/09/17/202429/un-calculations-of-poison-rockets.html#.Uj2Pfn-sGk0

I know that this dialog should be and will be binned, but I had to reply.

hope not

 

[gaiusmarius]

Dope time, this is totally off topic but it is an important one, so I'll address it since WWIII is an important topic.

Since both of the US invasions of Iraq were justified by fraudulent evidence, I've been very interested and leery of the justifications for this next war. I've read four different accounts which blame the rebels for the gassing event;

1. Saudis supplied the weapons but didn't provide training in their use, which resulted in an accidental detonation while they were being handled.

2. Saudis provided the weapons which were used in a "false flag " attack upon civilians to bring the US into the war.

3. Rebels used captured chemical weapons to stage a false flag attack.

4.Rebels purchased the materials to make sarin.

The UN inspection team found many rocket impacts which show that it was a genuine attack. There were two impact sites which allowed the rocket trajectories to be calculated (with one, the rocket punched through an awning leaving a hole slightly offset from vertical above the impact crater in a patio). Plotting the trajectories back to their source indicates the rockets were launched from government held territory within or very near the Syrian Republican Guard compound which holds their chemical weapons unit.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/09/17/202429/un-calculations-of-poison-rockets.html#.Uj2Pfn-sGk0

I know that this dialog should be and will be binned, but I had to reply.

trouble is so far it's all circumstantial and secret evidence that blames assad. on the other hand, why make the attack on the day the un inspectors are arriving in the area? why do the one thing that will get the west to attack? how is it possible that we only see civilians and kids amongst the dead? you'd think if they shoot it at someone it would at least be at the rebels? how come no rebels got hit? special type sarin maybe that only kills non combatants? if it was weapons grade sarin why didnt first responders get afflicted?

it gets worse though, there is a nun leading some kind of human rights organization there, that is reporting that the children seen in the videos are kids that were kidnapped from a assad loyal village that had been taken by rebels 2 weeks earlier.

in the end i just don't think assad would have been so stupid as to use chem weapons under those circumstances on the day the chem weapons experts were arriving. the more time that passes the more likely we will find out the real truth.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

The UN report is the first real evidence I've seen that directly implicated the Assad regime. I've also read about intercepted chatter that indicated that the higher levels of the regime were freaking out that someone lower went ahead and launched these rockets. One reason to use sarin is to induce terror in your opponents. Killing civilians works just fine. Since the attack occurred at night when everyone's asleep, how do you know who's a fighter? They don't all wear uniforms.

I did read about that account of rebels kidnapping children. A false flag event makes so much sense. Those UN inspectors had been invited to Syria by the Assad regime to investigate earlier CW attacks that they blamed on the rebels. Why then launch an attack upon civilians close by the inspectors then? That would be insane. Maybe like Iran, the Republican Guards have a great deal of autonomy?

Supposedly the regime is now winning so why use CW and risk bringing in outside intervention? Mideast scholar Juan Cole stated though that one branch of rebels had had recent success and was pushing very close to the capitol. If these rockets were launched from a Republican Guard military base and the airport then it supports the idea that the rebels were getting too close for comfort. It's all so confusing, and you can't trust anyone involved. The neocons had Syria on their list for invasion after Iraq so everything is questionable.

I was preparing to call all my friends and say good bye if the Senate had voted to authorize a military strike. It's nuts to think the US could launch a hundred cruise missiles at Syria and not have this blow up like throwing a rock at a hornet's nest. Syria has a mutual defense treaty/agreement with Iran, and Iran has a defense treaty with Russia. Russia doesn't want to lose its naval bases in Syria. This thing would get out of control so fast.

Once Syria is crawling with Russian and UN weapons inspectors its not going to be feasible to bomb the place. Maybe Kerry is a great stage actor and this was planned from the start? Supposedly he had talked with his Russian equivalent before giving his speech. Who knows? I'm just glad that full on WWIII has been postponed for a while. But now that the rebel forces are dominated by radical Islamists and they're establishing bases on Turkey's border, a NATO member, it's hard to imagine this situation not getting worse. Hoping that diplomacy ca work wonders some how.

And it all started with climate destabilization creating a drought that left people starving and protesting Assad's regime. This kind of thing will become commonplace in the future.

edit; I heard a BBC radio interview with a doctor who was a first responder and he said that all his staff and himself were suffering symptoms of exposure to sarin. The UN found the sarin to be weapons grade. Interestingly it didn't contain chemical stabilizers, indicating that it was mixed up for this occasion.

Two congressmen (Alan Grayson and another who I can't remember) examined the classified report and said that the evidence was marginal in their opinions.


.

 

[bombadil.360]

there's not gonna be a WWIII because of Syria or Iran... they are zeros to the left in terms of military power; they have a lot of mouth-power, but actual military technology? zero... most of their soldiers can't even read.

what will happen though, is that if Iran does not stop its nuclear plans, well, their facilities will be sent back to the stone-age; then probably a third intifada against Israel could start, but doubt it, they don't have the numbers, the training nor the technology to accomplish any of it.

the only scenario where I could see an actual WWIII starting is with China and/or Russia as main players.

Russia won't loose its foothold in Syria even if the U.S were to bomb Syria... if anything, Russia would gain a greater control over there.

sensationalist news most of the shit at best.

the fact no one has done anything about Syria is that everyone knows both sides fighting each other are not worth backing...

however, the ethical dilemma sets in: what about all the neutral civilians? why can't greater powers help them?

I could answer that, but it'd take a long post and time to do it.

peace

 

[gaiusmarius]

decided to split the posts about this into a new thread, so lets see what folks think about all this.

but know that the thread will get binned sooner or later.

 

[wantaknow]

this is a very relivant topic ,and should not be binned ,this is not here say but the undisclosed truth ,goole syrian natural gas pipeline ,and see how russia will be cut off at the pass so to speak by this pipeline and knocked out of the sale of natural gas to the uk ,this is much needed income for them and syria is getting kickbacks from the sale of the natural gas from russia ,this works perfictly in obamas plan to start a world war and kill off the dollar ,and bring all u s citizens into check ,by means of marshall law ,with the admittance of musliam sheria law already accepted by congress in the health care bill and law on page 107 ,google dhimmitude ,to undestand what it is and how it will affect every pearson in this country and all that is obtained by it will be given to islam in some way ,mostly free heath care ,and you will now undestand why mcdonalds is exempt from this as it is a muslam intenty,i hope you all take just a few min out of your day to look into this ,so that that you know the truth ,this is a smoke screen to bring us all into subservantude ,may you all wake up ,and see how he will convince all the world he is a god by being killed and be raised from the dead in three days but it is simply a majic trick of deciet ,as his birth certificate would have shown him being born a twin ,,this will get this site shut down ,for no body should ever shed this much light ,........

 

[gaiusmarius]

this is a very relivant topic ,and should not be binned ,this is not here say but the undisclosed truth ,goole syrian natural gas pipeline ,and see how russia will be cut off at the pass so to speak by this pipeline and knocked out of the sale of natural gas to the uk ,this is much needed income for them and syria is getting kickbacks from the sale of the natural gas from russia ,this works perfictly in obamas plan to start a world war and kill off the dollar ,and bring all u s citizens into check ,by means of marshall law ,with the admittance of musliam sheria law already accepted by congress in the health care bill and law on page 107 ,google dhimmitude ,to undestand what it is and how it will affect every pearson in this country and all that is obtained by it will be given to islam in some way ,mostly free heath care ,and you will now undestand why mcdonalds is exempt from this as it is a muslam intenty,i hope you all take just a few min out of your day to look into this ,so that that you know the truth ,this is a smoke screen to bring us all into subservantude ,may you all wake up ,and see how he will convince all the world he is a god by being killed and be raised from the dead in three days but it is simply a majic trick of deciet ,as his birth certificate would have shown him being born a twin ,,this will get this site shut down ,for no body should ever shed this much light ,........

i mean wtf? way to get the thread binned for sure. what are you even talking about. healthcare, islam, marshal law, islamic mac donalds? PLEASE!? first off; totally off topic. secondly, no reputable links or quotes to make one even be interested to look it up, or even explain your point. so yeah keep it on Syria pls.


editedto add:
check this link, your claim about dhimmitude, which is not even a real word, with regard to healthcare act is false, check it out yourself. the word is not even in the obama care legislation.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...tude-page-107-health-care-law-exempts-muslim/

 

[growhi]

bad guys vs bad guys

horrible whats happening but thats civil war for you !

the west should keep your nose's out !

 

[yortbogey]

I'll just walk away from this one... and leave it in U'r hands~G.....

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

there's not gonna be a WWIII because of Syria or Iran... they are zeros to the left in terms of military power; they have a lot of mouth-power, but actual military technology? zero... most of their soldiers can't even read.

Iran has Sunburn hypersonic cruise missiles. The US has aircraft carriers in the Strait of Hormuz. Each carrier has a crew comparable in numbers to a small city. When fifty of these missiles are launched from the hills along the coast to fly faster than sound six feet above the water surface towards a carrier it's going to be a potent test of the US Navy's anti missile defenses. The future here is unpredictable. The consequences could be dire.

 

[Hermanthegerman]

The Syrian civilwar is a heartbreaking shame! I think it wasn't Assads Order to use the gas. Maybe a single fieldcommander? Qui bono?

 

[wantaknow]

i dont expect it to be well recieved ,but its there if you look ,if you have eyes to see and ears to hear ,but is is the truth ,i am not trying to make you belive ,its for those who wantto know the truth is all ,i respect your thoughts ,the gas attack is simply a smoke screen

 

[Eighths-n-Aces]

the gas attack is simply a smoke screen

now thats funny ......... on multiple levels

 

[trichrider]

Dhimmitude” and the Muslim Exemption

Q: Will Muslim Americans be exempt from the mandate to have health insurance?

A: The Muslim faith does not forbid purchasing health insurance, and no Muslim group has ever been considered exempt under the definitions used in the health care law.

http://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/dhimmitude-and-the-muslim-exemption/

...

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[gaiusmarius]

now thats funny ......... on multiple levels

funny but true, looks like a fals flag attack if ever i saw one.

i read that the commander in charge of the chem weapons near where they were fired from was arrested and questioned for three days by the security forces, they checked their stocks and found not 1 weapon missing. thats what Syrian tv reports anyway. and the communications that were intercepted back this up in as far as the assad regime being totally shocked by the event and caught off guard, initially suspecting they'd been infiltrated or betrayed.

basically there is no way to know for certain yet, who is telling the truth. they are using the whole worlds media to try and convince everyone, but most people have their doubts, no one likes to think themselves a fool to be fooled again and again by the same trick.

 

[trichrider]

keep your eyes on the ball



not to be distracted by the inconsistencies, obfuscation, denials, and outright deceit proffered by US authorities.

shameful and disgusting.

queens bishop to rook 7.

 

[Eighths-n-Aces]

basically there is no way to know for certain yet, who is telling the truth.

amen! the problem is that we never will know everything we need to. we can speculate and try to figure out what the hell really went on but someone is destroying evidence as fast as someone else is trying to find it and every side is trying to spin it in their favor.

another day in world politics

 

[bombadil.360]

Iran has Sunburn hypersonic cruise missiles. The US has aircraft carriers in the Strait of Hormuz. Each carrier has a crew comparable in numbers to a small city. When fifty of these missiles are launched from the hills along the coast to fly faster than sound six feet above the water surface towards a carrier it's going to be a potent test of the US Navy's anti missile defenses. The future here is unpredictable. The consequences could be dire.

each costing several million dollars and needing highly complex technological support as well as highly trained personal to operate. which Iran has none.

Iran's military has not been wiped off the map simply because of peace seeking diplomatic solutions; plus no one wants to kill civilians while at it.

you know how many Russian made fighter jets Iran has? and how many of those are actually operational? and how many of the operational ones have properly trained pilots to fly them? or how many can be loaded and re-loaded with proper ammunition?
they don't even have spare parts to repair most of its jets.

the day a real military power, like the U.S or China, start going-off the mouth like Iran does, then shit can get real, but no one takes Iran seriously, it is like Chavez going off his mouth because he had bought a bunch of old junk from Russia...

anyway, when the times comes to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities, you'll see political support for it from Mecca and Medina; no one wants a bunch of crazies running a theocratic dictatorship armed with nukes. Hopefully the real actual people of Iran will take those crazies down.

peace

 

[bombadil.360]

funny but true, looks like a fals flag attack if ever i saw one.

i read that the commander in charge of the chem weapons near where they were fired from was arrested and questioned for three days by the security forces, they checked their stocks and found not 1 weapon missing. thats what Syrian tv reports anyway. and the communications that were intercepted back this up in as far as the assad regime being totally shocked by the event and caught off guard, initially suspecting they'd been infiltrated or betrayed.

basically there is no way to know for certain yet, who is telling the truth. they are using the whole worlds media to try and convince everyone, but most people have their doubts, no one likes to think themselves a fool to be fooled again and again by the same trick.

imo, this is no longer a question of being fooled or not, or of backing the rebels or the official forces; but rather, an ethical issue in regards the innocent civilians who just want peace and prosperity.

take WWII as example, no one helped the Jews, the U.S wanted nothing to do with it, until they axis got Pearl Harbor, and even then, it took a long long time to bomb access routes to concentration camps, even though allied planes were flying over them on a daily basis...

the question is what is the actual tipping point? obviously it was not chemical weapons, because who cares who used them? if what matters are the innocent lives lost, then the only ethical thing to do is go in and take Assad and the rebels out, afterall the chems were used due to their bullshit.