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PLASMA LIGHTING ?
- Thread starter deadpup
- Start date
GuerrillaG
Member
Hahaha ^^ I was like "son of a bitch! I searched for that exact phrase a couple days ago and there wasn't a thing". LOL
I actually specifically came into this subforum to start a thread all about plasma lighting but it looks like you beat me to it.
I read an article on another website (not sure if IC wants me linking other grow-magazine sites) that had my head running all night long. I got to reading and after a couple hours, felt I had learnt enough to come ask some questions haha.
For those unfamiliar with Plasma lighting I'll give a quick overview based on what I have learnt in the last couple days. (sorry if this is a thread jack. I can make my own thread if you like)
Plasma lighting is basically a bulb that doesn't use an electrode. Instead, different types of gases are charged using radio frequency power. This gas is charged by using either a magnetron (old technology that was holding things back, which some sulfer lamps still use) or the new solid state sytems, mainly the LiFi units being produced by Luxim out in Cali. Luxim only produces the plasma emitter units. They are used in all sorts of applications, just as of yet not really growing. It is up to other companies to develop specialized applications.
There are different types of plasma lights depending on what gas is inside. A combination of metal halide and argon gas seems to be the way things are headed, but Sulfer based plasma pops up a lot too.
Plasma lighting has actually been around forever (it was discovered by Nikola Tesla in the 1890s and patented in 1894) but until recently there were too many problems for people to consider them. ex. limited life, large size, heat (the sulfur used would burn through the bulb wall unless they were rotated rapidly), and low power – they could not sustain a plasma in powers under 1000W.
Over the years the problems have been addressed and there are now a handful of companies selling plasma lighting for horticulture applications.
So why consider plasma anyway????
After looking at plant light sensitivity graphs there is obviously a HUGE amount of the spectrum within the plants usable range that is not being provided by HPS or MH. Plasma seams to almost completely address this (except for anything over 650 nm).
(PAR) Photosynthetically Active Radiation. Note: the spike in the red for the GenVI is due to the LED banks NOT the plasma itself.
As you can see by the graph, plasma lighting provides a much fuller spectrum. The best growing light ever is the Sun, and lighting companies are always trying to improve, to get closer to replicating the full spectral distribution of the sun. So far plasma is as close as it gets.
Apparent Advantages over HID:
Lifespan: with the advent of solid state chips to generate the RF, units are being rated at 30,000-40,000 hours. thats like 9 years!!! Also, light output will (should) remain constant for the life of the light.
Heat: Units claim to output half the amount of infrared radiation as compared to HPS or MH bulbs. Which means half the heat. (basically. there's probably thermal radiation in the other parts of the spectrum too). MUCH LESS heat for sure haha
More efficient: Even though the Lumen output is lower (sidebar: WHY THE HELL do they measure grow lights in Lumens?!? It seems it would be a VERY bad way of measuring light when talking horticulture applications. Lumen's measure general light intensity for the human eye, not the photo-systems in the leaf. I think people should talk in micro moles/second [the measure of photons hitting the surface of the leaf]) compared to an HPS; the µmol/sec is ~30% less than that of an HPS light and yet, because of the more broad/full spectrum, the plants (in this case, cucumbers grown by Wageningen University in the Netherlands) yielded 30% more biomass. the plants also finished 10 days sooner than their HPS counterparts but I doubt that would apply to cannabis.
Efficiency/Power Use: Standard magnetron systems are actually slightly worse than an HPS ballast/bulb. They will draw 1300W from the main and deliver 1000W to the bulb. The new LiFi units on the other hand are AMAZING. most systems I've seen don't draw over 300 watts and have a light intensity similar to a 1000W HPS, while providing a much higher quantity of usable light.
Disadvantages:
Cost!!!!!! I think that Genesis system runs for 7 grand!
It looks like the genesis system is a LIFI metal halide/argon plasma light along with LED banks to fill in the lacking red spectrum. I've never used any plasma lighting yet, nor have I really looked at all there is out there, but the genesis looks to be one of the better systems on the market.
I've also seen a PlasmaGrow light available through an ebay store that was just over a grand. It pulls 288W so it also looks to be a LIFI unit. It was just the plasma light and transformer tho. There is no LED banks so I'm not sure if there would be problems with lacking the red spectrum. There is almost no info about this particular lamp so who knows if it is actually specifically for growing, even tho it is right in the name. but the prices do seem to be coming down which is a good thing.
With some of the new technology coming down the pipe, plasma lighting looks like it could become a viable option for even hobbyists. The same types of technology that's at work in your flat screen TV will probably be the foundation of all grow lights in 15 years. Still too early on but if plasma lighting gets swept up in the technological evolution stream it won't be long till HID is a thing of the past.
This was all info that I read online btw. I have never even seen a grow journal or heard of someone even buying a Plasma unit yet.
I would LOVE to hear from someone who has done a run with ANY type of plasma lamp. weed or not.
again sorry for the hi-jack. hopefully it peaks some peoples curiosity. My knowledge is pretty limited still. I've only been reading for a couple days. so I would love to get some input from someone who actually knows what they're talking about LOL
I actually specifically came into this subforum to start a thread all about plasma lighting but it looks like you beat me to it.
I read an article on another website (not sure if IC wants me linking other grow-magazine sites) that had my head running all night long. I got to reading and after a couple hours, felt I had learnt enough to come ask some questions haha.
For those unfamiliar with Plasma lighting I'll give a quick overview based on what I have learnt in the last couple days. (sorry if this is a thread jack. I can make my own thread if you like)
Plasma lighting is basically a bulb that doesn't use an electrode. Instead, different types of gases are charged using radio frequency power. This gas is charged by using either a magnetron (old technology that was holding things back, which some sulfer lamps still use) or the new solid state sytems, mainly the LiFi units being produced by Luxim out in Cali. Luxim only produces the plasma emitter units. They are used in all sorts of applications, just as of yet not really growing. It is up to other companies to develop specialized applications.
There are different types of plasma lights depending on what gas is inside. A combination of metal halide and argon gas seems to be the way things are headed, but Sulfer based plasma pops up a lot too.
Plasma lighting has actually been around forever (it was discovered by Nikola Tesla in the 1890s and patented in 1894) but until recently there were too many problems for people to consider them. ex. limited life, large size, heat (the sulfur used would burn through the bulb wall unless they were rotated rapidly), and low power – they could not sustain a plasma in powers under 1000W.
Over the years the problems have been addressed and there are now a handful of companies selling plasma lighting for horticulture applications.
So why consider plasma anyway????
After looking at plant light sensitivity graphs there is obviously a HUGE amount of the spectrum within the plants usable range that is not being provided by HPS or MH. Plasma seams to almost completely address this (except for anything over 650 nm).
(PAR) Photosynthetically Active Radiation. Note: the spike in the red for the GenVI is due to the LED banks NOT the plasma itself.
As you can see by the graph, plasma lighting provides a much fuller spectrum. The best growing light ever is the Sun, and lighting companies are always trying to improve, to get closer to replicating the full spectral distribution of the sun. So far plasma is as close as it gets.
Apparent Advantages over HID:
Lifespan: with the advent of solid state chips to generate the RF, units are being rated at 30,000-40,000 hours. thats like 9 years!!! Also, light output will (should) remain constant for the life of the light.
Heat: Units claim to output half the amount of infrared radiation as compared to HPS or MH bulbs. Which means half the heat. (basically. there's probably thermal radiation in the other parts of the spectrum too). MUCH LESS heat for sure haha
More efficient: Even though the Lumen output is lower (sidebar: WHY THE HELL do they measure grow lights in Lumens?!? It seems it would be a VERY bad way of measuring light when talking horticulture applications. Lumen's measure general light intensity for the human eye, not the photo-systems in the leaf. I think people should talk in micro moles/second [the measure of photons hitting the surface of the leaf]) compared to an HPS; the µmol/sec is ~30% less than that of an HPS light and yet, because of the more broad/full spectrum, the plants (in this case, cucumbers grown by Wageningen University in the Netherlands) yielded 30% more biomass. the plants also finished 10 days sooner than their HPS counterparts but I doubt that would apply to cannabis.
Efficiency/Power Use: Standard magnetron systems are actually slightly worse than an HPS ballast/bulb. They will draw 1300W from the main and deliver 1000W to the bulb. The new LiFi units on the other hand are AMAZING. most systems I've seen don't draw over 300 watts and have a light intensity similar to a 1000W HPS, while providing a much higher quantity of usable light.
Disadvantages:
Cost!!!!!! I think that Genesis system runs for 7 grand!
It looks like the genesis system is a LIFI metal halide/argon plasma light along with LED banks to fill in the lacking red spectrum. I've never used any plasma lighting yet, nor have I really looked at all there is out there, but the genesis looks to be one of the better systems on the market.
I've also seen a PlasmaGrow light available through an ebay store that was just over a grand. It pulls 288W so it also looks to be a LIFI unit. It was just the plasma light and transformer tho. There is no LED banks so I'm not sure if there would be problems with lacking the red spectrum. There is almost no info about this particular lamp so who knows if it is actually specifically for growing, even tho it is right in the name. but the prices do seem to be coming down which is a good thing.
With some of the new technology coming down the pipe, plasma lighting looks like it could become a viable option for even hobbyists. The same types of technology that's at work in your flat screen TV will probably be the foundation of all grow lights in 15 years. Still too early on but if plasma lighting gets swept up in the technological evolution stream it won't be long till HID is a thing of the past.
This was all info that I read online btw. I have never even seen a grow journal or heard of someone even buying a Plasma unit yet.
I would LOVE to hear from someone who has done a run with ANY type of plasma lamp. weed or not.
again sorry for the hi-jack. hopefully it peaks some peoples curiosity. My knowledge is pretty limited still. I've only been reading for a couple days. so I would love to get some input from someone who actually knows what they're talking about LOL
Doc420
Member
The cost of a plasma is not that much.
A Gavita LEP 300 you can buy for $1300.
I think that plasma is great to use together with hps.
The extra UV-A and UV-B (they filter out the UV-C) will create more and trichomes.
It doesnt make big buds.
It does make better quality.(more and better thc)
A Gavita LEP 300 you can buy for $1300.
I think that plasma is great to use together with hps.
The extra UV-A and UV-B (they filter out the UV-C) will create more and trichomes.
It doesnt make big buds.
It does make better quality.(more and better thc)
GuerrillaG
Member
Doc that Gavita LEP 300 looks almost exactly like the PlasmaGrow light i was talking about. Its probably a Chinese knock off version of the Gavita unit lol.
I like the idea of supplementing with an HPS. I think LED still has a way to go yet.
Do you think that the plasma doesn't make big buds because of the light itself? or the way people are using them?
The PAR level for the Gavita plasma seems to be right in between a 600W and 1000W HPS (when measuring a quality bulb like a horti) and when compared against a value 1000W it is about the same, if not better.
It is not recommended to run them more than a foot away from the canopy. I would guess that if people use them the same way as a standard 1000W they will be disappointed. same as when 600's came out (small, loose buds). It looks like the inverse square law really comes into play. and an extra 10 inches of height will probably make a BIG different in mass. With an HPS not so much.
but who knows. until I buy a unit i'm kinda just pissin in the wind here lol
I like the idea of supplementing with an HPS. I think LED still has a way to go yet.
Do you think that the plasma doesn't make big buds because of the light itself? or the way people are using them?
The PAR level for the Gavita plasma seems to be right in between a 600W and 1000W HPS (when measuring a quality bulb like a horti) and when compared against a value 1000W it is about the same, if not better.
It is not recommended to run them more than a foot away from the canopy. I would guess that if people use them the same way as a standard 1000W they will be disappointed. same as when 600's came out (small, loose buds). It looks like the inverse square law really comes into play. and an extra 10 inches of height will probably make a BIG different in mass. With an HPS not so much.
but who knows. until I buy a unit i'm kinda just pissin in the wind here lol
trevor112358
New member
Worms Way just featured a plasma light in a side by side with a 600 watt HID. They recommended light replacement every 9 to 12 months, mentioned the efficiency benefit on operating costs over HID. I was taken aback by their $999 price for the whole unit. Seems too expensive to me. First time I have been exposed to this type of lighting. If they could get the price point to under $500, it might be a good move. Claim it satisfies veg and flower spectrum needs of the plant and can be placed closer to plant tops with less heat.
drknockbootz
Member
good find....
I doubt it can compete with a 600w but if it can produce what a 400w can its still worth it.
Now we need whazzup to comment on this particular plasma
I agree they don't really cost that much.
I just purchased the gavita $1050US, its still in transit right now.
It is a large initial investment. But if it really does end up lasting 7 years, then its great. Thats like 40 grows, if you replace bulbs every 2 grows, thats 20 bulbs.
I was also considering supplementing with a 400mh. I don't like LEDS myself.
400mh ballast...$150...probably end up replacing within 7 years...$300
Reflector...............$100
20 decent quality 400watt mh bulbs $50 each......$1000.
I am going to use it for flower. But my veg room is a little behind schedule so I have a couple weeks off.
I am currently keeping my moms in the 3 x 3 tent with a 250watt mh.
So I plan to run a couple simple test, comparing canopy temps, and top of the tent temps. Probably won't be able to see any changes in the plants in the week or so it will be in there, but will take note.
Skyrancher
Member
Good thread DeadPup and great posts GuerrillaG...I've been thinking about setting up my room with 10 Gavita Pro 600w 400v in vertical bare bulb and supplementing with 6 Gavita's LEP 300 plasma.
I agree...there aren't many posts or threads in the US about plasma, but in Europe, I found some. Search the website called Open Grow. They have some threads about the Gavita LEP 300 that sound encouraging. Whazzup is an administrator on this website and has numerous posts. Also on this website, there is a member, "Once a grower ! (Always a grower)", who has been using Gavita quite a lot. He gives good information and answers quite a few questions from a user stand point.
Whazzup, talking about a growers setup question states,
"closer to the lamp the uniformity will be a bit less, if you want good uniformity closes to the lamps then you need 600W fixtures.
at 1.1 meter height 1114 umol s1 m-2 avg with a uniformity of 75%"
"Using 6x600 (2 rows of three in the length) and 3 plasma lamps in between the rows the levels are:
at 0.5 meter height 836 umol s1 m-2 avg
at 0.7 meter height 898 umol s1 m-2 avg
at 0.9 meter height 961 umol s1 m-2 avg
at 1.1 meter height 1020 umol s1 m-2 avg"
Seems Gavita is recommending supplementing HPS with LEP at heights well over 1 foot?
Doc, can you add any of Gavita's recommended heights for the Pro LEP 300?
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5953754&postcount=480
I found this post from the gavita 1000 watt DE thread very helpful. He has a link called white pages. Its a good thing to read if you havent
I found this post from the gavita 1000 watt DE thread very helpful. He has a link called white pages. Its a good thing to read if you havent
