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Ghudda's first success, a ppk story

Ghudda

Member
First grow, first ppk, and here is the unfolding story... which will hopefully be a success.

Long story short, I've borrowed and copied ideas from folks primarily on this forum but haven't had the bandwidth to take action until recently. I built some pvc screens around Marlo's designs, a PPK system based off delta9nxs, and was originally inspired (and continue to be) by Bobblehead and DHF.

Several weeks ago I got ahold of some Blue Dream cuttings that would not root. They were placed in wick-fed sterilite containers (same as delta9nxs cloning containers). I did not have a humidity lid/dome over them, they were under 24/7 light and the temp was around 76-78F... and I probably had them in 500ppm flora nova bloom I would later find out as well. Gave them a couple weeks, and was resigned to leave them to die under a couple T8 6500k. I then got ahold of 4 well rooted BD in soil, in solo cups. I had to go away for about a week... the solo cups were under four T8 bulbs while I was out and being watered daily in about 76-78F 50-60% humidity - weather conditions.

When I got back I re-read about cloning/cuttings and talked to a friend. Between his info and what I gathered I went ahead and gave the dead-looking cuttings another cut a half inch or so farther up the stem, scarified them, dipped them in rooting gel, and gave them another try in the wick-fed turface this time with humidity domes. 5-7 days later they're rooting and looking great. Like little zombies. Thought they were toast for sure.

When I got the solo cup Blue Dream's there was one about 7" tall, two 4-5" tall, and a runt maybe 3" tall. While under fluoros for a good week they all grew up towards the bulbs, gaining a few inches each, with the largest starting to wrap around the bulbs. Those plants were placed into a PPK system (this is my reminder to start keeping better track of things if I want to improve) maybe 1-1.5 weeks ago. For a few days they did nothing. Then it seemed like they were all gaining about an inch a day. 40-50% Humidity, temperature swings are 70-75F now, they were more around 75-82F for awhile there.

All clones have had indications of what is probably leaf burn from 500ppm flora nova bloom. I didn't get my hands on NaCl ppm/EC calibration solution for my hm digital tester until just a few days ago. I really didn't expect my readings to be as far off as the solution revealed to me... but I chalk that up to another lesson learned. I diluted the clones down to 320ppm (20 ppm water) and am still working more water into the PPK system to bring it down around 620ppm (currently 850-900) and this is Jacks Hydroponic Special mixed with YaraLiva calcnit. Flooding containers every hour.

Water pH says 6.0 out of the faucet and managed to be around 5.0 as of a week ago. Need to take another reading of that soon.

I forgot the size of the pump but it takes 60-75 seconds to fully flood the upper tubs (Little Giant 6.5gallon tubs). I believe the air gap in the lower 3.5gallon buckets to be around 4". The air porosity of my turface mix drains a little bit faster than I intended, I might be draining fluid 10% faster than the ideal 30-33%.

Pictures... the room is a little small at around 7.5ft wide and 8ft long. If I can measure some real success out of this grow I'm thinking more about a 10x10 room. You can see the Marlo screens in the background, currently unused and originally built to sit over a taller top bucket. You can see my big $$$ way of measuring temperature and humidity resting on the 27gal pump house.

If you follow delta9nxs PPK designs some of this is going to look familiar. I'm using the same manifold, same size garden hose, same float container. I'm probably using a different float valve

This is the larger of the plants. This is about a week ago, I'll get another shot real soon. Long as my camera holds up, it wants to take a picture every 3-4 shots or so. Was sitting in a drawer gathering dust for ~4 years. I guess it didn't like that.

You can then see my cloning containers.

I built a plywood box to place a Suncourt 10in fan into. I want to talk a little about this pain in the ass in the next post.

 

Ghudda

Member
I've mentioned before that I'm not a very handy guy. I'm getting better though. The fan box I built happens to not have a lot of room for stuffing things into it, not much beyond the fan really fits in there. I stuffed the box with batting but there was a bit too much vibration-noise going on so I recently pulled it apart and glued sound board into it. Unfortunately that took up nearly all the room in the box that the fan didn't occupy.

The sound board did totally muffle any hint of non vibration noises... but... the vibration based noise got worse with most of the batting removed. It was shaking the wall quite a bit. Maybe this info will prove useful to somebody - I bought a relatively inexpensive rubber floormat and cut 3-4" wide lengths that I placed all the way around the outside of the fan box. That's done the trick. There's now just a faint whooshing air sound that's much more appealing. Saw a video on the 'net of a guy that did a similar thing I'd done. He replaced a low-tech fan box with a heavy duty box made of wood and his noise levels unfortunately went way up.

The fan is on a timer that runs it at 30-40% speed when under 77F. It doesn't often hit that temp and the lowest I've seen has been 70F prior to lights on. I didn't initially plan on having the fan running 24/7 but it's done wonders for the smell factor.

What the room may need and doesn't have yet - circulation fans. The stalks/stems of these plants don't seem terribly hardy, possibly from a lack of circulation fans.

Adding other info as I recall it. The light cycle on these right now is 8hrs on, 4hrs off. The hortilux bulb is throwing 1800-2000 foot candles at these. Currently the large plant pictured above is bushing out quite a bit more and is about 18" tall. I'm not sure if these will stretch 2-3x their size and being my first grow I'm considering flipping to 12/12 fairly soon.

As part of me keeping track of things and taking more data... I plan to defoliate them varying amounts and am thinking about topping one and maybe fimming another. Thinking about topping the largest one maybe to slow some of the upward growth that the others are unlikely to reach.
 

Ghudda

Member
Wondering if maybe these plants were showing signs of over-*something* for quite awhile that I wasn't noticing. Looks like leaf curl/clawing going on. Will get some pics up that're current. Disease? Overwatering? pH level? (currently 5.4) or over-fertilizing. Could be almost anything far as I know. Temps climbing up around 80F today as well but I don't think it's from heat.

It's the upper 1/3 - 1/2 of the plants that're showing the curling.

I'm still backing down the ppm with water. They were 850-900 and now are down in the 780 range. I've also changed from 60min tub floodings to every 90min instead.

 

delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
hey, ghudda! i don't like the looks of those plants! something is radically wrong.

what is the ppm of your tap water?

how are you mixing the jacks?

what is the actual air filled porosity? is that regular turface mvp and was it screened over regular aluminum window screen?

get back to me with this info asap and i'll respond tomorrow morning.
 

Ghudda

Member
Tap water is 20ppm. 5.4pH was last I checked just yesterday. My ppm meter was off, but I intended on mixing (Using 5-12-26 Jacks, 15-0-0 calciium nitrate) 360ppm jacks, 240ppm CalNit. The idea was to add jacks and then add calcnit until I hit 620ppm, I was doing that with around 20-25 gallons at a time in a separate tank. Unfortunately it was 850-900 and I've been adding water to bring it down lately (currently 770). The humidity right now is 60%, temp is 70F at the end of a light cycle. Goes up to around 76F usually, I thought humidity was around 50% the other day 5-6hrs into a cycle.

Was feeding every 60min, changed that to 90min.

It's regular turface MVP screened over regular aluminum window screen but does seem to drain faster than optimal. I'll need to give it another porosity test soon.
 

delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
Tap water is 20ppm. 5.4pH was last I checked just yesterday. My ppm meter was off, but I intended on mixing (Using 5-12-26 Jacks, 15-0-0 calciium nitrate) 360ppm jacks, 240ppm CalNit. The idea was to add jacks and then add calcnit until I hit 620ppm, I was doing that with around 20-25 gallons at a time in a separate tank. Unfortunately it was 850-900 and I've been adding water to bring it down lately (currently 770). The humidity right now is 60%, temp is 70F at the end of a light cycle. Goes up to around 76F usually, I thought humidity was around 50% the other day 5-6hrs into a cycle.

Was feeding every 60min, changed that to 90min.

It's regular turface MVP screened over regular aluminum window screen but does seem to drain faster than optimal. I'll need to give it another porosity test soon.
-
all sounds correct but something is wrong. even 8-900 ppm is not strong enough to cause that clawing.

it could have been the flood cycle at 60 minutes but the reaction should have been less severe.

maybe the correction to every 90 min will straighten them out.
 

delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
looking at the pics again i'm convinced something is chemically wrong.

have you added anything else to the res?
 

delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
i think you should dump that res, check the calibration on your meter, and re-mix the jacks first at 360 ppm and then the calcinit at 240 ppm.

after you check the calibration re-check the tap water reading too.
 

high life 45

Seen your Member?
Veteran
I think you might have broad mites... do the pistils look damaged? its hard to tell with the hps yellow in the pics...

If any of the leafs show discoloration similar to a mosaic virus, you most likely have bms..if they are twisting and growing wierd or curling along the edges, these are also signs of bms..

if you have em scrap the plants, I would scrap the turface and start clean. Your plants are not that far along, and its much easier to start clean then to clean up.. I have heard of people getting rid of all their equipment and moving houses because of bms. but dont worry, I think those people are lazy and they dont have the support that you have here.

I have used poisons in the past for bms, but at this stage, I would reload..and start afresh.. I got rid of them succesfully from different locations, while not infecting other places, which were sometimes divided only by a wall.


If your grabbing genetics locally u need to have a quarantine area.
This can be as simple as a floro in a plastic box. Any time you get new genetics do it, give them all of there immunizations, sprays, boosters etc.
Even if people say there stuff is bug free, dont trust them..

I have spent close to 6k maybe more for bms and root aphids in the last year.. I could have just cloned the clone and sprayed and not spent the 6k and probably harvested alot more...alot more..all part of learning process.

If it is bms, Your gonna need some kind of high powered loop to see the eggs on the bottom of the leafs...most people need a microscope, but HL can seem em with a loop, barely...
 

high life 45

Seen your Member?
Veteran
picture.php


If you look at the top leafs on the left although its curling down...the edge is curling up. This is most likely bm damage ffrom what I can tell. This pistils dont look happy from what I can tell either.

BMs are relatively new to our area, they came here from California Clones, and growers from CA..

PM me if need be.
 

delta9nxs

No Jive Productions
Veteran
i've never had broad mites here. we get the 2-spot type sometimes. but that last photo does look like pest damage up close.
 

high life 45

Seen your Member?
Veteran
Even in the first photo I see what looks like leaf twisting, and some of that same damage...
picture.php


Dont take the wrong way but this is a great time to have broadmites, Learning how to deal with them right off the bat is going to set you ahead of many growers. A priceless skill.

And even more honestly, I had bm's for close to 8 months because they stayed on ONE strain in my veg room and I didnt grow that strain for 8 months.....that same group of clones brought in my ra's...

BM's are taking people out because they are not thorough with their treatments, dont slack and they are cake..

You could probably bake the turface to reuse it if you wanted, 150* should be plenty. I just dont know how safe that would be with moisture in it.. so refer to D9 for advice on something of that nature.

Make sure there isn't a plant near your grow that is effected, im speaking of a non cannabis plant..they like citrus plants. It is likely that they came into the cannabis grow scene from citrus plantations in socal....

Best of luck Ghudda. let me know if you need help..
 

Ghudda

Member
I don't know anything (yet) about immunizations, sprays, booster shots :( I'm leaning towards wanting to fight the disease if there is one. For experience if nothing else.

Any personal recommendations for fighting broadmites? What is a high powered loop? A magnifying glass? What am I looking for?

I will drain the reservoir in case there's something weird in it... kinda interested to see if that's the problem.
 

Ghudda

Member
Well. Son of a bitch. You guys are right. I don't have a microscope or magnifying glass handy but I'm pretty good at staring at one spot and seeing any movement. There are white looking little bastards crawling around on those top leaves. I'm going to find a magnifier and take a better look (can't find, looks like I'll be getting another one)

I have Mite-X spray and that's just about the only thing I have. (Sprayed it all around, gonna see how things look later/tomorrow)

I'm not going to dump the reservoir just yet, the problem be bugs... in retrospect, maybe I titled this thread wrong :)
 
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