Butane vs Sohxlet extraction

[Phatlee]

Any thoughts?

 

[hempmajor]

Well, butane is a solvent soxhlet is a glassware , you could run butane in a soxlet if you want(with proper cooling , like dry ice and ipa).
The probleme with soxhlet extractors is that the quantity of weed you can extract is very low unless you buy a huge aparatus ($$$).
If you want to use a soxhlet extractor I advice you to use hexane it seems the best solvent for cannabinoids extraction in a soxhlet.

Have a nice day
Hm'

 

[Gray Wolf]

Butane will absorb up to 32ml/L water. Longer contact absorbs more water and water solubles. It also starts picking up chlorophyll.

We stop running cycles on the Terpenators just before it starts developing an electric green hue, usually three or four soaks. Microscopic exam shows that we are removing most of the useable product at that point.

We use hexane when we wish to reflux and soxhlet, which will only hold 9.5 ml/L water.

 

[Phatlee]

Very good information. Just wondering then, as far as toxicity goes, acetone exposure is far less toxic to the body than hexane. Would the potential longterm health implications of hexane make it a less favourable solvent than acetone then?

 

[SpaceshipNelson]

Hexane;
Appearance: APHA: 20 max liquid. Flash Point: -22 deg C.
Danger! Flammable liquid and vapor. Danger of serious damage to health by prolonged exposure through inhalation. Breathing vapors may cause drowsiness and dizziness. Causes eye and skin irritation. Toxic to aquatic organisms, may cause long-term adverse effects in the aquatic environment. Possible risk of impaired fertility. Aspiration hazard if swallowed. Can enter lungs and cause damage.
Target Organs: Blood, central nervous system, liver, respiratory system, eyes, skin.


Potential Health Effects
Eye: Causes eye irritation.
Skin: Causes skin irritation. May be absorbed through the skin in harmful amounts. May cause dermatitis. There have been no reports of skin sensitization in people occupationally exposed to n-hexane. Skin sensitization was not observed in a maximization test using 25 volunteers.
Ingestion: Aspiration hazard. May cause irritation of the digestive tract. May be harmful if swallowed. May cause lung damage.
Inhalation: Harmful if inhaled. May cause respiratory tract irritation. Exposure produces central nervous system depression. Inhalation of vapors may cause drowsiness and dizziness. n-Hexane vapor concentrations can become so high that oxygen is displaced, especially in confined spaces.
Chronic: Chronic exposure may cause liver damage. Adverse reproductive effects have been reported in animals. Laboratory experiments have resulted in mutagenic effects. Chronic exposure may cause blood effects. Animal studies have reported the development of tumors.

Acetone;
Appearance: clear, colorless liquid. Flash Point: -20 deg C.
Danger! Extremely flammable liquid and vapor. Vapor may cause flash fire. Causes eye irritation. Breathing vapors may cause drowsiness and dizziness. Causes respiratory tract irritation. Aspiration hazard if swallowed. Can enter lungs and cause damage. Prolonged or repeated contact may dry the skin and cause irritation.
Target Organs: Central nervous system, respiratory system, eyes, skin.


Potential Health Effects
Eye: Produces irritation, characterized by a burning sensation, redness, tearing, inflammation, and possible corneal injury. Vapors cause eye irritation.
Skin: May be absorbed through the skin. Repeated or prolonged exposure may cause drying and cracking of the skin.
Ingestion: May cause irritation of the digestive tract. May cause central nervous system depression, characterized by excitement, followed by headache, dizziness, drowsiness, and nausea. Advanced stages may cause collapse, unconsciousness, coma and possible death due to respiratory failure. Aspiration of material into the lungs may cause chemical pneumonitis, which may be fatal.
Inhalation: Inhalation of high concentrations may cause central nervous system effects characterized by nausea, headache, dizziness, unconsciousness and coma. Causes respiratory tract irritation. May cause motor incoordination and speech abnormalities.
Chronic: Prolonged or repeated skin contact may cause dermatitis. Chronic inhalation may cause effects similar to those of acute inhalation. Matsushita et al. exposed human volunteers 6 hours/day for 6 days at 500 ppm acetone and found hematologic changes including significantly increased leukocyte and eosinophil counts and decreased neutrophil phagocytic activity. . . .

I would contend that from an occupational standpoint, acetone is much worse to work with than hexane. Proper protection [practices] and routinized safety methods are your only real defense against working with chemicals! (i.e. DON'T BECOME THE FILTER)

 

[Gray Wolf]

Very good information. Just wondering then, as far as toxicity goes, acetone exposure is far less toxic to the body than hexane. Would the potential longterm health implications of hexane make it a less favourable solvent than acetone then?

What SN said. Look at the LD-50's.

Acetone
Section 11: Toxicological Information

Routes of Entry: Absorbed through skin. Dermal contact. Eye contact. Inhalation.
Toxicity to Animals:
WARNING: THE LC50 VALUES HEREUNDER ARE ESTIMATED ON THE BASIS OF A 4-HOUR EXPOSURE.

Acute oral
toxicity (LD50): 3000 mg/kg [Mouse]. Acute toxicity of the vapor (LC50): 44000 mg/m3 4 hours [Mouse].

Chronic Effects on Humans:
CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: A4 (Not classifiable for human or animal.) by ACGIH. DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Classified
Reproductive system/toxin/female, Reproductive system/toxin/male [SUSPECTED]. Causes damage to the following organs:
central nervous system (CNS). May cause damage to the following organs: kidneys, the reproductive system, liver, skin.
Other Toxic Effects on Humans:
Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation. Slightly hazardous in case of skin contact (permeator).
Special Remarks on Toxicity to Animals: Not available.
Special Remarks on Chronic Effects on Humans:
May affect genetic material (mutagenicity) based on studies with yeast (S. cerevisiae), bacteria, and hamster fibroblast cells.
May cause reproductive effects (fertility) based upon animal studies. May contain trace amounts of benzene and formaldehyde
which may cancer and birth defects. Human: passes the placental barrier.
Special Remarks on other Toxic Effects on Humans:
Acute Potential Health Effects: Skin: May cause skin irritation. May be harmful if absorbed through the skin. Eyes: Causes
eye irritation, characterized by a burning sensation, redness, tearing, inflammation, and possible corneal injury. Inhalation:
Inhalation at high concentrations affects the sense organs, brain and causes respiratory tract irritation. It also may affect the
Central Nervous System (behavior) characterized by dizzness, drowsiness, confusion, headache, muscle weakeness, and
possibly motor incoordination, speech abnormalities, narcotic effects and coma. Inhalation may also affect the gastrointestinal
tract (nausea, vomiting). Ingestion: May cause irritation of the digestive (gastrointestinal) tract (nausea, vomiting). It may alsop. 5
affect the Central Nevous System (behavior), characterized by depression, fatigue, excitement, stupor, coma, headache,
altered sleep time, ataxia, tremors as well at the blood, liver, and urinary system (kidney, bladder, ureter) and endocrine
system. May also have musculoskeletal effects. Chronic Potential Health Effects: Skin: May cause dermatitis. Eyes: Eye
irritation

Hexane
Section 11: Toxicological Information
Routes of Entry: Absorbed through skin. Dermal contact. Inhalation. Ingestion.
Toxicity to Animals:
WARNING: THE LC50 VALUES HEREUNDER ARE ESTIMATED ON THE BASIS OF A 4-HOUR EXPOSURE. Acute oral
toxicity (LD50): 25000 mg/kg [Rat]. Acute toxicity of the gas (LC50): 48000 ppm 4 hours [Rat].

Chronic Effects on Humans:
MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Mutagenic for bacteria and/or yeast. May cause damage to the following organs: peripheral nervous
system, skin, central nervous system (CNS).
Other Toxic Effects on Humans:
Very hazardous in case of ingestion, of inhalation. Hazardous in case of skin contact (permeator). Slightly hazardous in case
of skin contact (irritant).
Special Remarks on Toxicity to Animals: Not available.
Special Remarks on Chronic Effects on Humans:
May cause adverse reproductive effects based on animal data. May be tumorigenic based on animal data. May affect genetic
material. Passes through the placental barrier in animal.
Special Remarks on other Toxic Effects on Humans:
Acute Potential Health Effects: Skin: May cause mild skin irritation. It can be absorbed through the skin in harmful amounts.
Eyes: May cause mild eye irritation. Inhalation: May be harmful if inhaled. Inhalation of vapors may cause respiratory tract
irritation. Overexposure may affect, brain, spinal cord, behavior/central and peripheral nervous systems (lightheadness,
dizziness, hallucinations, paralysis, blurred vision, memory loss, headache, euphoria, general anesthetic, muscle weakness,
numbness of the extremeties, asphyxia, unconciousness and possible death), metabolism, respiration, blood, cardiovascular
system, gastrointestinal system (nausea) Ingestion: May be harmful if swallowed. May cause gastrointestinal tract irritation
with abdominal pain and nausea. May also affect the liver, blood, brain, peripheral and central nervous systems. Symptoms of
[FONT=&quot]over exposure by ingestion are similar to that of overexposure by inh[/FONT]

 

[Phatlee]

Yeah I looked at the LD50s between the two. Assuming you have proper ventilation and equipment the acetone would be the bigger hazard due to its vapor flammability. I was just wondering because I was reading that the long-term health implications of hexane use is well documented and acetone has no strong evidence of health effects if basic precautions are followed. Maybe Im just being overly paranoid? Better safe than sorry....

 

[Gray Wolf]

Yeah I looked at the LD50s between the two. Assuming you have proper ventilation and equipment the acetone would be the bigger hazard due to its vapor flammability. I was just wondering because I was reading that the long-term health implications of hexane use is well documented and acetone has no strong evidence of health effects if basic precautions are followed. Maybe Im just being overly paranoid? Better safe than sorry....

The LD-50's don't tell the whole story, just at what level 50% of the rats died, and the concern for chronic exposure is more centered around the metabolite that our bodies turn the Hexane into.

Concern for metabolite Hexane 2.5 dione metabolite is a real concern for chronic exposure, so proper purging techniques to remove the hexane below sensory detectable limits of 130 ppm is important.

The Permissible Exposure Limit for Hexane is around ten X the detectable sensory limits. If you can't smell or taste it, you are below PEL.

Exposure Limits per MSDS:http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927187

TWA: 500 (ppm) from OSHA (PEL) [United States] Inhalation TWA: 1800 (mg/m3) from OSHA (PEL) [United States] Inhalation
TWA: 176 (mg/m3) from ACGIH (TLV) [United States] SKIN TWA: 50 (ppm) from ACGIH (TLV) [United States] SKIN TWA:
500 STEL: 1000 (ppm) from ACGIH (TLV) [United States] Inhalation TWA: 1760 STEL: 3500 (mg/m3) from ACGIH (TLV)
[United States]

As noted above, the issue with hexane is with the 2.5 dione metabolite from our bodies breaking it down. The NIOSH standards are based on an 8 hour time weighted exposure and don't reflect what lower levels of chronic hexane exposure over a longer period of time may do.


It has already been established that chronic exposure to hexane below PEL can have toxic effects, by studying shoe repairmen who use an adhesive that contains Hexane.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22863898

J Occup Health. 2012;54(5):376-82. Epub 2012 Aug 2.

Electrophysiological studies of shoemakers exposed to sub-TLV levels of n-hexane.
Neghab M, Soleimani E, Khamoushian K.

The results weren't pretty and in summary:

<em>RESULTS:
The TWA exposure to n-hexane was estimated to be 83.2 mg/m(3). Electrophysiological studies showed that the amplitudes of sensory nerve action potential (SAP) for median and sural nerves were significantly lower in exposed subjects than in unexposed normal controls. Additionally, a significant correlation was found between these decreases and the urinary concentration of free 2,5-hexanedione.

CONCLUSION:
The significant decrements in SAP amplitudes for the median and sural nerves may be considered as appropriate indicators for early detection of n-hexane-induced peripheral neuropathy in asymptomatic workers with current exposure to sub-TLV levels of n-hexane.</em>

From that it is clear that regular chronic exposure at only about 17% of PEL and 83% of sensory threshold creates health issues, so that bring us to how much hexane will be present at one time given an average dose of 100mg.

If we ASSume that the residual hexane is at 129 parts per millionth, or just under sensory threshold of 130 ppm, and a standard 100 mg dose, then we would ingest .0129 ml per dose ( (100______X 129 ppm = .0129 ml).
1,000,000

Besides being extremely low, it would also be a momentary exposure, not 8 hour, so my own concern is low enough that I use it myself for alchemy, just remove it to safe levels afterwards.

 

[RitualDelFuego]

i'd like to know what you plan to do with the butane once it's been used enough to become dirty... I mean, can the vac still be used with drierite somehow to pull out the water? or do you devise some elaborate way to burn $30 worth of butane as fast as possible?

 

[MEMED]

WTF?