Flowering.... trimming fan leaves off....leaving fan leaves on

[papaduc]

Defoilating speeds up plant growth hahaha NOT it slows plant growth

Does it?

Have you tried it to find out?

#2 defoilating a plant can go hermie on you ???

Can it?

Have you tested the theory to find out?

Fck yea what causes hermies STRESS ???? you think plucking leafs of a plant is not STRESS ???? Think again it is

Is it?

Have you tested the theory and found a higher hermy rate?

Millions of years of evolution and a MJ plant doesn't naturally drop its leafs to make more bud ?? hahaha cmon man mother nature is powerful

And there's you with a scrog screen.

Did mother nature install that for you? Or is it man made like the rest of your grow room, your nutrients, the light they receive, and the pinching and bending you do to fit them into the screen.

Don't use the mother nature argument where it doesn't apply. It makes you seem like you're not thinking about what you say.

You say more branches from defoilating again i ask you how long it took is there not other alternatives for more branching
like topping cropping fimming all these will work much faster with better results

But what about nature's way? And what about stress?

Contradiction?

ask your self how photosynthisis really works google it pretty simple all in the leaf area

And yet the plant still grows perfectly well without them. There's a question to be asked based on that.

Feel free to completely ignore it though.

does defoilating effect osmosis ???? does it effect transpiration
NO LEAFS = NO C02 uptake

No CO2 uptake. So, dead plants.
Well, that's proven categorically not to be true by literally thousands of growers of different crops worldwide.

It seems facts matter less and less as your post goes on.

Your "answers" leave you with more questions for you to ponder. Like, if the plants don't breathe properly or photosynthesise when defol'ed, why do they harvest well? Or if the plant hermies, why are there seemingly no reports of this from growers who practice it? Are they lying? is it all a conspiracy now?

If these questions don't make you stop and think then nothing I say will. You've made your mind up, so move on. Nobody is listening to you at this point anyway. Agree to disagree and call it a day.

 

[MJOFMJ420]

I READ EVERY PAGE ON THIS POST AND STILL DONT KNOW WHATS BEST

 

[MJOFMJ420]

SOME SAY DONT TAKE OUT THE BIG FAN LEAVES BECAUSE THEY ARE THE FUEL TANKS AND ARE NOT GONNA GROW ANY MORE THEREFORE NOT USE UP ANY OF THE BUD MAKING ENERGY
THEY SAY REMOVE NEW GROWTH IDK

OTHERS SAY LEAVE NEW GROWTH AND ONLY REMOVE LARGE FAN LEAVES SINCE THEY ARE BLOCKING LIGHT AND NOT NEEDED SINCE U ARE ADDING YOUR OWN NUTES

 

[MJOFMJ420]

SHOULD I REMOVE ALL NEW BRANCHES AND LEAVES GROWING AT THE TOP AND COMING OUT THE BUD ON THE TOP (WHICH IS WERE MY BIGGEST DENSE BUD GROWS)
IT LOOKS LIKE THIS IS WHAT MANY GROWERS DO, BY LOOKING AT YOUR PICS
OR WILL THE BUD SWELL UP TOWARDS THE END AND COVER THIS NEW GROWTHS AT THE TOP

 

[ozzieAI]

wow this thread just keeps going around and around...it's been a while since i last checked in and have to say that the best posts i have found are:
green_science post # 322, al70 post # 355 & drknockbootz post # 359...

this is a situation that seems to work differently for different grows....personally a heavy defoliation after stretch cost me close to 50% reduction in my harvest (outdoors) when compared to plants that i left alone. an indoor grower i know does defoliate but he does a little bit often. so when bud set occurs he has removed all that he wants to to ensure good light penetration and he has seen an improvement in his yields by 10%...

i now remove a little often and once the plants are flipped then the trimming stops this includes removing leaves shading bud sites, lollipoping to remove potential larf buds and also spread the branches to expose as much of the plant to the light as possible...this has increased my output by about 15%...so it is worth the extra effort

personally i think there are numerous variables that individuals will need to try to see if it will benefit them or not...there may not be a 'right' answer...

good luck to all you growers out there

 

[Ichabod Crane]

could you please post 64 0z of dried bud ???? i saw that grow it didn;t look anywhere close to what your saying 64 0z

You didn't see that run pictured. I never posted anything but that picture. That grow is from over a year ago so I don't have pictures of the buds.

Not all of us run the strain that you run which is prone to do just larger colas. The room pictured had 6 different strains. Some where low yielders. That is what my customers want. To tell me what I have to grow is foolishness on your part as you have no idea what my customers want or need.

The grow that I did post which you are mentioning was not 64 ounces just as you say. I posted the numbers with that grow and i believe it was around 48 ounces.

nice ichabod, is this a current gro?

Thank you. No this is just a older grow from over a year ago or more.

 

[willyweed]

you only have to read the dr fever grow to see how full of holes it is ! dodgy dates,drying varies by weeks as does the finish time! the thing i find funniest is that you can buy ppp2 seeds now which produces approx 20% extra bud. anybody ever checked his stats? some of the worst i have seen on here ever !

 

[Ichabod Crane]

I READ EVERY PAGE ON THIS POST AND STILL DONT KNOW WHATS BEST

SOME SAY DONT TAKE OUT THE BIG FAN LEAVES BECAUSE THEY ARE THE FUEL TANKS AND ARE NOT GONNA GROW ANY MORE THEREFORE NOT USE UP ANY OF THE BUD MAKING ENERGY
THEY SAY REMOVE NEW GROWTH IDK

OTHERS SAY LEAVE NEW GROWTH AND ONLY REMOVE LARGE FAN LEAVES SINCE THEY ARE BLOCKING LIGHT AND NOT NEEDED SINCE U ARE ADDING YOUR OWN NUTES

SHOULD I REMOVE ALL NEW BRANCHES AND LEAVES GROWING AT THE TOP AND COMING OUT THE BUD ON THE TOP (WHICH IS WERE MY BIGGEST DENSE BUD GROWS)
IT LOOKS LIKE THIS IS WHAT MANY GROWERS DO, BY LOOKING AT YOUR PICS
OR WILL THE BUD SWELL UP TOWARDS THE END AND COVER THIS NEW GROWTHS AT THE TOP

You will need to try this on your own plants to know how it will work for you.

Here is what I do for my grows.

I remove all the fan leaves after stretch is over. Stretch last about 40% of flower. For example a ten week strain is 4 weeks. A 8 week strain is 23 days. I usually do all mine at 28 days for simplicity.

When you remove the fan leaves (the leaves with stems) take them off over time. If you just rip them off all at once you will stunt your plant. This will show as a lack of water uptake. Then your flower time will be lengthened. I usually take a few during the stretch time if they are blocking bud sites. It may only be about 5-7 per day for a 3/4 pound plant. This will get the plant use to losing some leaves. When stretch is over I will take maybe 20% of the leaves. These leaves will be the big leaves in front and any leaves that are losing color already. Then I wait 2-3 days and take some more. It may take me 1.5 to 2 weeks to get them all.

I do not take any leaves from the buds that have no stem.

On plants that the buds are dense it is important to get the entire stem off. If a piece of the stem is left and gets trapped in the buid it can mold and you will lose this bud and possibly the bud next to it.

Why do I do this? Well first off I had a plant that had what I thought was mold on the leaves. So I started plucking the moldy looking leaves off one side of a plant. Turns out my best buds came from this side off the plant. The other side had larf where the leaves were shading the buds. Turns out it was a nut deficency that cause the leave to discolor and not mold.

Additionally it opens the canopy to better air flow. As you know the plant need this air flow to transpire moisture, breath out oxygen and breath in carbo dioxide. Opening the canopy also helps reduce mold from taking root.

Ultimately you will have to run your own strains to know which ones respond best to fan leaf removal. When you do take it slow at first so you don't stress the plants.

Best of luck.

 

[Crooked8]

Seems a little dramatic in here but id like to chime in. Jack kills it. So does dutch touch. Theyre the only people i see on here hitting 2.5 per 1k with ogs and shit thats not even high yielding. So i started defoliating because of them. My yields with exact same strains have gone up dramatically. Lower buds have been getting much bigger and "popcorn" has become larger. My trim doesnt have any bud material in it anymore because everything gets trimmed and the trimmers have no problems with it. I used to have pinkie fingernail sized buds in my trim. I wait a week from onset and i do slight lst. Then after two weeks of training after onset i lst hard. Then i let them fill in until week 5. Then like jack suggests i defoliate most to all fan leaves (besides the top two on terminals). You defoliate mildly. You dont do it all at once. I do it like 2-3x a week until week 8. Removing a few here and there as the weeks go on. Ive only seen yield bumps and better bud structure from the middle of the canopy down. My og, my cheese and my amnesia have ALL responded well to this. They are all very different plants. Thats my experience with defoliation. If i were to leave my leaves on through the entire run i know for certain that my lowers would be larfy and smaller. As for outdoors, i feel defoliation could be less necessary. The sun penetrates a canopy of outdoor way better than any 1k can. Not sure what to think there. I still think it could help. People defoliate many other plants. Tomatoes for example.

 

[drknockbootz]

Yeah I dont see the plant going through any stress when you defoliate gradually from start to beginning. Like some other posters have mentioned. Ive never stunted or hurt my plants with this method. At the end of the day every situation is different, address it accordingly.

I was able to average 4.5lbs in one room DR.F 1800w and my genetics doesnt stack like yours

I got a buddy of mines who used to rape his plants and still would hit over a 1gpw. Not my favorite method, but it worked for him.

 

[Crooked8]

4.5 out of 1800watts? Dayum

 

[DrFever]

Yeah I dont see the plant going through any stress when you defoliate gradually from start to beginning. Like some other posters have mentioned. Ive never stunted or hurt my plants with this method. At the end of the day every situation is different, address it accordingly.
View Image

View Image
I was able to average 4.5lbs in one room DR.F 1800w and my genetics doesnt stack like yours

I got a buddy of mines who used to rape his plants and still would hit over a 1gpw. Not my favorite method, but it worked for him.

hitting a gram per watt is easy these days i average 1180 dry grams per 1k with out C02 how many plants you have in there here 3 k 8 - 10 pound harvest 12 plants and another 3 k 6-7 pound harvest smaller plants which is first picture both C02 induced un molested only larf and below canopy cleared and again only 12 plant grows Soon i will be starting a journal 24 plant with LEP plasma inbetween 2000 watts so 10,000 watts of HPS 1500 watts of plasma

 

[Crooked8]

Those all look like photos of a great producer. What strain??

 

[DrFever]

Those all look like photos of a great producer. What strain??

White widow

 

[Crooked8]

Very nice

 

[DrFever]

I might as well post this as well 6 pounds 2000 watts un molested plants and i was fighting them mites 4th week in flower till they were done Afganistan kush 72 plants few years back now i get pretty much same results with 12 plants lol go figure

 

[BlueberryLovr]

Nicely done, Dr.F.

I've been following and experimenting with defoliation since the start of the original hot thread "defoliation hi-yield technique". Grown both indoors and outdoors. To call it a high yield technique is misleading. However, it is a viable tool that can be used situationally and in moderation--especially when space is limited and/or the canopy becomes too thick for light to penetrate deeper. The purpose is not leaf removal, but rather shade removal.

In Dr.F's case, he wouldn't benefit much (or lose much) if conservative leaf removal was performed. The canopy is open enough due to sufficient spacing between plants and he isn't growing a particularly leafy strain.

Different circumstances call for different techniques to be utilized. Is aggressive defoliation ideal? No. But it is a better alternative than having heavily shaded mid-high to lower buds that do not reach potential. My experience with selective defoliation has been very favorable due to how tightly packed my colas are. Grows in the same area that did not include defoliation resulted in similar yield but fluffier buds.

On a side note: What I've noticed is that when you remove a fan leaf from one side of a node, the branch on that side develops significantly slower than the side that has its fan intact. Keep this in mind when you are plucking away.

 

[Alone]

6 pounds DrFever? From 2000watts?!?! Thats freakin awesome dude!
I have 1200watts, and this grow from seed I have the thickest canopy Ive ever had.
Each plant has 10 tops that are basically the same in length and thickness.
I have 1 Cheesedog that was a mother plant that was topped over and over again. I believe she has around 50 nice tops.
If you got 6 lbs then Im thinking I should get around 4 from this grow. Thats 1.493 GPW.
Very achievable with the way I trimmed up half the bottoms ~

Cheesedog w/ 50 tops in the middle between the two lamps ~ (along with a plant on each side)

Heres that Cheesedog w/ 50 tops after defoilation ~

This is just my particular style of growing, so someone elses style my require different trimming techniques.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Something I posted in another defoliating thread--

When a herbivore (leaf cruncher) attacks a plant--the plant's responds by either resisting or tolerating the attack, and damaged leaves "defoliate" naturally. So...it seems that "defoliation" is part of nature.

Science has concluded that healthy plants will usually respond to defoliation" with: re-growth, elevated photosynthesis, increased branching, production of new leaf and reallocation of nutrients.

"Resistance involves the reduction of the amount of herbivore damage whereas tolerance leads to a reduction of the impact of herbivory on plant fitness (Rausher et al., 1993; Stowe et al., 2000). Resistance traits include mechanical and chemical characters that reduce herbivore performance (antibiosis) or preference (antixenosis). Conversely, proposed mechanisms for tolerance/compensation are re-growth stimulation, elevated rates of photosynthesis in remaining leaves of partially defoliated plants, increased branching through the release of apical dominance, alteration of phenology or plant architecture, production of new leaf area, utilization of high pre-herbivory stored carbon resources or the ability to reallocate them to less vulnerable tissues, resorption of nutrients from senescent/damaged leaves, especially nitrogen (N) and phosphorus (P), alteration of the external light environment and higher reproductive efficiency through increased percentage of fruit set (Mabry & Wayne, 1997; Hjalten et al., 1993; Strauss & Agrawal, 1999; Hochwender et al., 2000; Tiffin, 2000; Anten et al., 2003;Silla & Escudero, 2003; Leimu & Koricheva, 2006; Schwachtje et al., 2006.

And the last paragrah:

5. Conclusion
This chapter explored the highly complex mechanisms employed by plants to adapt to the ever-changing conditions of an environment that is becoming progressively more unpredictable as the consequences of global warming become painfully apparent. Much progress has been made in the identification of many important players in this vital regulatory process, but many areas remain obscure and will require active research to be elucidated. The manifold relationships between plants and insect herbivores from the photosynthetic perspective were also examined. From this perusal it is clearly evident that almost all contact with insects, even when no damage is involved, as in some oviposition processes or in tritrophic interactions that indirectly benefit the plant, will have an impact on photosynthesis. This highlights the importance of the photosynthetic process in plant-insect interactions, which can be variously manipulated to either favor or impair the plant, or the insect or both.


Source: Section 4.2--http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/29428/InTech-Friend_or_foe_exploring_the_factors_that_determine_the_difference_between_positive_and_negative_effects_on_photosynthesis_in_response_to_insect_herbivory.pdf

Yes I defoliate, cheers!

 

[OG_TGR]

Cited, academically relevant information....ahhh, if only everyone could do this!

Something I posted in another defoliating thread--

When a herbivore (leaf cruncher) attacks a plant--the plant's responds by either resisting or tolerating the attack, and damaged leaves "defoliate" naturally. So...it seems that "defoliation" is part of nature.

Science has concluded that healthy plants will usually respond to defoliation" with: re-growth, elevated photosynthesis, increased branching, production of new leaf and reallocation of nutrients.

"Resistance involves the reduction of the amount of herbivore damage whereas tolerance leads to a reduction of the impact of herbivory on plant fitness (Rausher et al., 1993; Stowe et al., 2000). Resistance traits include mechanical and chemical characters that reduce herbivore performance (antibiosis) or preference (antixenosis). Conversely, proposed mechanisms for tolerance/compensation are re-growth stimulation, elevated rates of photosynthesis in remaining leaves of partially defoliated plants, increased branching through the release of apical dominance, alteration of phenology or plant architecture, production of new leaf area, utilization of high pre-herbivory stored carbon resources or the ability to reallocate them to less vulnerable tissues, resorption of nutrients from senescent/damaged leaves, especially nitrogen (N) and phosphorus (P), alteration of the external light environment and higher reproductive efficiency through increased percentage of fruit set (Mabry & Wayne, 1997; Hjalten et al., 1993; Strauss & Agrawal, 1999; Hochwender et al., 2000; Tiffin, 2000; Anten et al., 2003;Silla & Escudero, 2003; Leimu & Koricheva, 2006; Schwachtje et al., 2006.

And the last paragrah:

5. Conclusion
This chapter explored the highly complex mechanisms employed by plants to adapt to the ever-changing conditions of an environment that is becoming progressively more unpredictable as the consequences of global warming become painfully apparent. Much progress has been made in the identification of many important players in this vital regulatory process, but many areas remain obscure and will require active research to be elucidated. The manifold relationships between plants and insect herbivores from the photosynthetic perspective were also examined. From this perusal it is clearly evident that almost all contact with insects, even when no damage is involved, as in some oviposition processes or in tritrophic interactions that indirectly benefit the plant, will have an impact on photosynthesis. This highlights the importance of the photosynthetic process in plant-insect interactions, which can be variously manipulated to either favor or impair the plant, or the insect or both.


Source: Section 4.2--http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/2942...synthesis_in_response_to_insect_herbivory.pdf

Yes I defoliate, cheers!