cal/mag in coco

[RedBeardy5]

I hear soooo many conflicting point of veiws on the correct ppm of cal/mag to add to your rough water. If your using a coco specific nutrient such as canna or H&G what ppm should my RO water be before adding nute. I normally got it up to 200ppm but am having magnesium problems this time around. epsom salts did nothing so i leaning towards lockout.

 

[justiceman]

I'm not very familiar with Canna or HG, but if they are coco specific in theory they should have all the cal/mag necessary without need to add an extra cal/mag supplement into the feeding regiment. Adding too much cal/mag is not a good thing. For example lock out is more than a possibility.

Calmag from botanicare is what a lot of people use. They sell it because PBP does not have enough Calmag in it.

Any quality hydroponic nutrient should have enough IMO. Personally I said screw Canna, HG, Heavy16, etc and went with H3ads 6/9 recipe for two reasons. It's cheap and it's effective 6ml of GH micro/9ml of GH bloom per gal is all that is needed from veg to harvest pH 5.5 to 5.8 is acceptable.

6/9 is all the lady below has gotten from day 1. I use R/O water so all the cal/mag is coming from the nutrients. I add 1ml of protekt per gallon before nutrients and the pH falls to 5.8 after adding 6/9 every time. Want half strength? just add R/O water till EC falls from 1.2 to .6. pH still stays the same even when diluted in this manner(for me at least).

 

[Treetroit City]

I go 4ml's, or 0.4 EC myself after 1ml of Protekt has been added.

This makes my "tap water"

Then add whatever and adjust accordingly.

 

[Puscifer]

There are other things that can be going on that will manifest itself as a mag deficiency. (For example, I sprayed a shit ton of pyrethrin in my sealed flower room and all was fine for about 2 weeks then I fought MG def's for 8 months until I realized that all the Pyreth I sprayed on the reflectix covered walls was off gassing slowly. I changed out all the reflectix and the MG def stopped immediately)
I use city water that's already 350ppm of (mostly Cal carbonate and Mag carbonate) AND i add 1 tsp/gal of MagiCal and have never gotten lockout.
Are your roots healthy?

 

[devn00b]

Im ussing Canna A/B, and currently have to use ~7ML/gal of calmag with my 0ppm RO/DI water, else I get rust spots with my Jack Herer. Soon as I went from 5mg to 7mg/gal new growth had no spots and no new ones showed up.

My Kosher is fine with 5mg/gal again with 0ppm RO/DI.

Friend of mine running some headband swears by his 10ml/gal for calmag. Personally I think that's a bit high but if thats what the plant wants...thats what it wants.

I would say some strains require slightly more than others and you should probably start lowish and move your way up if you notice issues.

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

With high cal well water here, not RO, I use just Canna coco at 2ml/L .. it is perfect for most, but exactly as devn00b says, plants vary.

With plain RO water, you will probably need some calmag, here in Europe it is not generally necessary, in the US, with some very bad water in some places, it is essential.

 

[RedBeardy5]

Ok bc I always got my ppm up to 200ppm on a 500 scale, which equals 3ml a gallon. Past 4 grows were great using this, but this last grow I lost half to a horrible cal/mag def. People were telling me don't add cal/mag then others were saying to add.

 

[Snow Crash]

I go 4ml's, or 0.4 EC myself after 1ml of Protekt has been added.

This makes my "tap water"

Then add whatever and adjust accordingly.

And in just another thread you said you were using "Only Canna A+B"

Wow, I'm running Canna coco A&B. That's it.

I wonder what my plants are lacking?

Pants on mf-ing fire yo!

Your plants aren't missing out on Silica or Cal-Mag cheater cheater pumpkin eater!

That's really similar to my process too with RO water. Drop of Silica, just a few citric crystals to offset the Silicate's alkalinity, add in the Cal-Mag to 0.3ec total. Then the Canna A+B, and all my goodies. RO water is very reactive with the air and will rapidly form bicarbonates in the correct conditions. Canna is actually very adamant about NOT using RO water with their system due to the reactivity of the solution creating excess bicarbonates and causing some elements (namely calcium) to become both unavailable to the plant and also to the coco buffer. If you use RO water you'll get better results buffering the water before adding the CANNA as Third Coast, myself, and many others do.

Ok bc I always got my ppm up to 200ppm on a 500 scale, which equals 3ml a gallon. Past 4 grows were great using this, but this last grow I lost half to a horrible cal/mag def. People were telling me don't add cal/mag then others were saying to add.

Could be a number of issues... I find that in flowering I typically suffer more from Magnesium issues than Calcium issues, especially with CANNA's Cal-dominant formula. My conceptual explanation is that as the coco is fed during veg that it retains more and more calcium in the media. In flowering the plant's nutritional needs change to less required Calcium, and the now abundant Calcium buffer interferes with the uptake of competing cations (K+ and Mg++). To avoid this issue I will do a rinse with a good bloom formula that I have calculated to have a 2:1 calcium to magnesium ratio (rather than 4.5:1.2) in order to balance the coco buffer to accommodate a rapidly flowering plant.

The best way to combat a magnesium deficiency in my experience is with a foliar spray. To 1 liter of soft or RO water I add 1/4tsp of Epsom salt, 1 drop Ivory biodegradable dish soap (or alternative surfactant), and 1/4tsp Fulvic acid (Mad Farmer N.U.T.S. at the moment). Apply to the underside of the plant leafs for 2 days, then do just water and soap. This is an in the moment fix but it is not a solution to the overall problem occurring in the media.

 

[Puscifer]

Ok bc I always got my ppm up to 200ppm on a 500 scale, which equals 3ml a gallon. Past 4 grows were great using this, but this last grow I lost half to a horrible cal/mag def.

That's because Cal/mag or lack thereof is not the issue.
Sometimes I add a ridiculous amount of MagiCal and NEVER get a lockout. Even adding MagiCal to my tap doesn't bother the plants.
Have you pulled the root ball to give a looksee?

 

[RedBeardy5]

Yeah I pulled two and the roots were great. I noticed when I mixed Epsom salt in the mix it got worse.

 

[Treetroit City]

And in just another thread you said you were using "Only Canna A+B"



Pants on mf-ing fire yo!

Your plants aren't missing out on Silica or Cal-Mag cheater cheater pumpkin eater!

Haha, busted!

Okay, I also use PK13/14, Cannazyme, Boost, Liquid Karma, Floralicious Plus, Roots excel, Photosynthesis Plus, ACT made with fresh castings and compost and probably some other shit as well.

Not necessarily in that order.

 

[Snow Crash]

What do you think of that Photosynthesis Plus? I met the owner at the SF Garden Expo and he gave me the full run down.

Do you use it as a foliar spray? Any negative effects, or side effects, that require adjusting the light height or nutrient strength? I'm going to grab myself a sample and see what it can do.

I think in CA they sell the Photosynthesis Plus as Plus-C, because of labeling, but it is also the same stuff.

 

[Johnny Hash]

I'm currently running H3ad's GH lucas formula in coco in myself, 3ml micro/4.5ml bloom first week of feeding, then 6/9 ever since (as my base nutes). I also use 0ppm RO water, and GH CaliMagic as a cal/mag supplement because it has a lower amount of N than Botanicare's cal-mag plus. This is only my 3rd grow, all have been in coco (or coco based soilless mixes), so I've been reading a lot on coco & cal-mag issues. I luckily have not had any serious calcium or magnesium def's this grow. And this thread is the first time I've ever heard to add something to 0ppm water before adding my base nutes. I've always done it like this: 6ml Micro first, then 9ml Bloom, then 5 to 7ml Calimagic (depending on if they look like they need more)....and about 1-2 ml of Silica Blast as a slight PH up. The highest ppm I've fed them is 700, and they're in the 5th week of flowering, looking fantastic. Looking like I'm going to shatter my personal yield record this time. One question I do have, when should I cut out the cal-mag completely (because it does have some N in it)? I've read A LOT of conflicting opinions on this... Thanks -JH

 

[RedBeardy5]

I also use the calimagic bc of the low nitrogen also. 5-7ml per gallon of calcimagic? Im guessing your lucas formula is not coco specific. I would not drop the calimagic if your nutes are not gade coco specific.

 

[OG BURNT UP]

I'm currently running H3ad's GH lucas formula in coco in myself, 3ml micro/4.5ml bloom first week of feeding, then 6/9 ever since (as my base nutes). I also use 0ppm RO water, and GH CaliMagic as a cal/mag supplement because it has a lower amount of N than Botanicare's cal-mag plus. This is only my 3rd grow, all have been in coco (or coco based soilless mixes), so I've been reading a lot on coco & cal-mag issues. I luckily have not had any serious calcium or magnesium def's this grow. And this thread is the first time I've ever heard to add something to 0ppm water before adding my base nutes. I've always done it like this: 6ml Micro first, then 9ml Bloom, then 5 to 7ml Calimagic (depending on if they look like they need more)....and about 1-2 ml of Silica Blast as a slight PH up. The highest ppm I've fed them is 700, and they're in the 5th week of flowering, looking fantastic. Looking like I'm going to shatter my personal yield record this time. One question I do have, when should I cut out the cal-mag completely (because it does have some N in it)? I've read A LOT of conflicting opinions on this... Thanks -JH

It says right on the CALiMAGic label "When using Reverse Osmosis or purified
water add 1ml per liter (1 teaspoon per
gallon) to water before adding nutrient
solution."

 

[RedBeardy5]

Yeah I always do that just to be safe

 

[Medicgray]

I hear a lot about adding this first, or that first. I found it doesn't matter. What your worried about is a precipitate forming, and dropping out of solution. I have an air stone in my res to circulate and oxygenate my feed water. I mix 30 gal at a time; add base, cal/mag or others and it doesn't matter, just do it slowly, let it mix. don't adjust the pH for about an hour afterwards. never had a problem with cal/mg UNLESS I got lazy and didn't get enough runoff. Then I don't adjust my mix. I water with straight RO in the am or lights on, for a generous runoff and then just before lights off water with my nute solution. problem will resolve in a few days.
I used to panic a lot and go with drastic changes, etc. shocks em bad.
If it was working figure out why its not now- look back to other grows and see if you had same prob at same time. only then would I change my approach.
I also keep my EC relatively low, and that might be why I c less problems.

 

[Cereals]

It says right on the CALiMAGic label "When using Reverse Osmosis or purified
water add 1ml per liter (1 teaspoon per
gallon) to water before adding nutrient
solution."

This doesn't make sense.

1 teaspoon = 5 mL

So, 5mL CaliMagic per gallon of RO.

but, 1 gallon = 3.78 liters. So 5ml/3.78.

So it really should be 1.32 mL per liter.


Anyway, not trying to call you out - just trying to draw attention to the fact that these fucks can't even be hassled to get something this simple correct - one of the reasons I stopped using their product and started looking for something else.

 

[Johnny Redthumb]

dont use gh calimagic for coco, its carbonate based. it may not show problems immediately, but eventually it can build up in your root zone. same goes for go calmag.

with ro water, using coco specific nutes, you shouldn't need any extra cal mag. try flushing em with clean water and starting over.

also, too much potassium will lock out magnesium, so avoid any bloom boosters or anything, at least until you cure the deficiencies. other things that can look like mag deficiencies are pesticide burn or not enough light.

i would foliar an epsom salt solution, instead of adding it to the res and throwing off the balance of you base nutes.

measure your run off, you might have salt build up or pH drift. i would run clean water pH'd to 5.4 thru the pots till the runoff is <100 ppm, then immediately feed just your base coco nutes. then foliar a epsom salt solution of about 100-200 ppm. repeat the foliar in 3 days and you should see improved growth.

 

[Cereals]

I hear soooo many conflicting point of veiws on the correct ppm of cal/mag to add to your rough water. If your using a coco specific nutrient such as canna or H&G what ppm should my RO water be before adding nute. I normally got it up to 200ppm but am having magnesium problems this time around. epsom salts did nothing so i leaning towards lockout.

Hey redbeardy, I remember seeing you in my similar threads a couple weeks ago - here is what ended up working for me...

2 grams of epsom salts per gallon of RO, then add nutes!

This will bring you to EC 0.4/200ppm - my girls are loving life again! Nice lush green new growth, COMPLETELY GREEN STEMS, starting to stink again, etc!

In my case, all my girls wanted was Mg - not Ca. By using CaliMagic I seem to have created even more of a Mg deficiency.

I had read a few places that H&G Cocos A+B already has enough Ca in it for most strains, and indeed it turned out to be the situation in my case.

I should maybe also note that I am also using LED lighting.

Good luck!