Question About LED lights

[gardenfather]

I have a question for all the LED fans out there.

I have a 600w Ballast and 600w HPS light,

Im looking to convert that into an LED setup.

Will it use less power? will it still act like a 600w HPS?

Thanks. Only shitting thing just bought the ballast and light lol. Just stressing over the power used by the ballast and HPS.

 

[chileno1978]

Hi, yep, you will use less power, but not much less. (Half or up)
The nugs will be smaller also probably.

 

[jcmjrt]

GardenF, I'm not sure what you are asking. There are some LED "tubes" being made now which can replace T5 fluorescent bulbs but I don't know of any conversions for HPS setups. Do you mean sell the 600 watt HPS and use the money to buy an LED fixture? or?

Since you talk about a 600 watt HPS, I'm going to guess that you are growing in a 4 x 4 space. To grow great bud, you'd need two SGS-160s from area51lighting.com (there are some other good choices too but this is an excellent one). It would be about half the wattage AND would at least seem to be waaay less than half the heat as there's no radiant heat with LED. Not having to deal with high heat is wonderful.

If you buy some cheap chinese panels then get at least 400 watts...and good luck...hope it lasts and does more than veg nicely. If you don't have/want to spend the money up front and save in the long run, I'd recommend just keeping the 600 watt HPS. You know how to grow with it. Almost any crap LED panel will veg nicely so it's cheap to set up a veg room but if you want to flower, then the up front costs hurt a little.

 

[Oregonism]

I have a question for all the LED fans out there.

I have a 600w Ballast and 600w HPS light,

Im looking to convert that into an LED setup.

Will it use less power? will it still act like a 600w HPS?

Thanks. Only shitting thing just bought the ballast and light lol. Just stressing over the power used by the ballast and HPS.

Most likely PAR will be improved in a lower wattage LED light. The Area 51 lights mentioned above put out 1216 u/mols @ 12", compared to a 400 HPS putting out 1400+ U/mol's @12" as well.
http://area51lighting.com/specs.html

The advantages of the LED watt for watt are: pinpointed spectrum, less heating/cooling. How much of the HPS's spectrum is in the far red and IR spectrum as wasted heat?

Seems like the general consensus is a little smaller of yields [up to 1gram/w], but the quality anectdotally seems to be increased across the board.

So no a 150 watt LED won't replace a 400w or 600w light, quite yet. They get close, but if compared to a 150w HPS, the LED will outcompete.

 

[Neekz]

I don't like Area51's use of so many white's, IMO it seem's to make way leafier bud from what I have seen. Could be pheno I guess... Go through the GPW thread and look for something comparable to what you got going on. IMO for cost saving's I would go with a setup simmilar to what Oneshot used in his 4x4. 2x249w draw, Growblu full spectrum's, kinda pricey at $499 a piece, but should pull near the 1G/W mark. If you are willing to you can order them factory direct (I have...) and shave a considerable amount off, you just gotta know what your ordering (Spectrum, actual wall draw/output, optical lens's...). Funny how they say on their site (Area51) you can easily verify credibillity of an L.E.D. manufacturer with a simple google search, yet I only found a couple un-impressive grows lol (Not as life changing as they make it seem, preaching the NO-CHINA GARBAGE left and right...). I will tell you one thing, no matter what you do (Long as you stay away from low current, zero-optic, flat panels...), you will love the benefit's of L.E.D. regardless. Maybe start with something for your Veg side to get your feet wet. Good luck bredren, and drop me a line anytime, I am here to help.

 

[gardenfather]

im wondering should I sell my 600w or just keep it havent even used it yet.

 

[gardenfather]

Thanks I'd like to order the best ones I can get my hands on I'm prob gunna order tomorrow so if anyone has any other suggestions please let me know so far ill go with the above

 

[Neekz]

Id go california lightwork's if possible, their 5w is currently some of the newest tech (So shouldn't be considered "obsolete" anytime soon...), and are proven to produce. They are the closest I have seen to a HID (Easier for HID guys to adapt their style...) like fixture, as they are meant to be kept high off the canopy while providing even coverage (18-24" minimum from top's...). The 200w puts out 183w of light, and can cover a 3'x3' at 18"-24". It has got 1319 PAR uMol's @ 12", more then the Area51. You could use these similar to how you use your HID's at the moment, they are similar sized to a hood, and are designed to be used in a similar manner. 2 of the 200w Solarflares will allow you to grow in a similar style , suffer a little bit smaller yield's (Theoretical max of oh say 365g's if hitting 1g/w as many do...) , and use 1/3 the electricity of you current 2x 600w HPS. If you have the dough you could get 2 Solastorm 400wer's and get better result's using 2/3 the electricity. They put out 2,828 PAR uMols at 12" !

 

[jcmjrt]

I would choose area51/SGS160 over the CLW products. There are a few reasons but the most obvious is that area 51 tells you what LEDs they are using and they are Cree. The best LEDs out are generally Cree, Philips and Osram.
The CLW units say they use "high quality" LEDs. Bet if they were using Cree Philips or Osram that they'd be crowing about it.
One of the other major reasons that I like area51 is that they attempt to tell the basic truth about the wattage of their units, what parts are used and how much area the fixture will flower well. Truth in advertising in a business filled with cons. I mean do you really believe that a 9 x 9 inch fixture (CLW200) is going to flower well over a 3 x 3 area? That's absurd. LED is highly directional and will only grow well what is almost directly under the panel...and a few inches to the sides.

 

[Oregonism]

I think there are several lights out there, that if I had the coin I would cut my teeth on:

Apache Tech
Lumi's
Area 51 [seem good, but more research is definitely needed]
HGL multichips
Bysen multichips
The new Magnums
California Light Works
Growblue
Kessil
[If I had 7.5k to blow, The Radiant]

Grower's House has a bunch of lights to ponder over.

[I know some are re-brands, but I am just pointing out whats out there]

 

[PetFlora]

im wondering should I sell my 600w or just keep it havent even used it yet.

can you return it for store credit?

Based on watching A51 interact with our community over a couple years (and several recent grow threads, mostly on RIU, IMHO they deserve consideration

I find ~ 40- 50% quality leds to equal hps at half the electricity and 5-10x+the life expectancy, and a hell of a lot less heat

I am running ~ 110w in a 2x4 tent temps ~ 83-84*s without exhaust

 

[VerdantGreen]

LEDs are great, but if you've just bought a 600 hps and ballast then you should use that for now. then you will be able to judge the difference.

imo LED's do save power but only about 20% (to get the same results)

VG

 

[Neekz]

Im going on hard facts brotha. CLW got alotta work put in, and stacked 5w chip's are essentially where the rest of the industry will go. If you look at the way they Area51 is marketing, I wouldn't say it is very trustworthy, at best semi-transparent. They could go without ranting about the L.E.D. market. Most of the time it is the result of the un-informed consumer. Most people read up enough after their first purchase to basically know what to look for, and if you did, you would realize that there is no "best" L.E.D., only one's best for a given situation. He seem's like a HID grower, why recommend him a big "China-Style" panel with optics that severely cut the footprint? CLW's are cheaper, and have better PAR, and are a Point-Of-Source like light. Just seem's to me a easier transition for him than the huge Area51. They seem pretty backwards to me, we wanna "innovate and revolutionize", then go and use the same style design's as those they bash, and slap in some Cree's (New'sflash, Cree's aren't gold... A cup of coffee's more expensive...). Get what you wan't IMO, you can pull good no matter what, it's like skateboarding, it's not what you got, it's how you use it! Just think about your convenience.

 

[jcmjrt]

Im going on hard facts brotha.

He seem's like a HID grower, why recommend him a big "China-Style" panel with optics that severely cut the footprint? CLW's are cheaper,

Facts - Cree LEDs are better than no-name chips. Let's see...as I remember right it was only a few days ago - per Neekz "The output of most american made diodes is about 2-3x that of comparable chinese diode's at an equal driven current. Most american diode's can be driven higher as well, compared to chinese counterpart's." 2 - 3X the output is a pretty compelling argument for quality made LEDs.

LED is NOT HID and will never yield it's best results to people who try to treat it so. LED is far more comparable to T5 lighting than HID in that it really only flowers well what is directly under the fixture and a few inches to each side (generally 2 - 6 inches). The jam packed small fixtures are about saving money on the heatsink and fans NOT about growing the best weed and being somewhat efficient in the process. LED light is highly directional - one of the major reasons it's efficient...so it makes a terrible point source of light. Coverage is king just like with T5. And I bet growing good dense bud over the whole grow area will be much more "convenient" than having a small fixture in the center of the area.

And yes, I know what to look for. I'm REALLY sure that I haven't said that there is one best LED fixture. I'm not buying from nor recommending a company that lies badly enough to try to tell me that a 9 x 9 inch LED fixture will grow over a 3 x 3 area!! I can hang some CFLs in the middle of the room and grow under them too....not that I'll get anything useful - but heck, treat everything like HID whether it works well that way or not. It has obviously been a sales approach that works.

Personally, I now buy Cree and Philips (and maybe someday Osram since their deep red is so nice) LEDs and other quality parts (including efficient drivers, large heatsinks, quiet, efficient fans) and make my own fixtures. Custom made for my grow room and style is the way for me. DIY is actually pretty easy. I recommend that anyone at least consider DIY if you are at all handy. There are even parts available now that don't require soldering.

 

[Neekz]

Personally, I now buy Cree and Philips (and maybe someday Osram since their deep red is so nice) LEDs and other quality parts (including efficient drivers, large heatsinks, quiet, efficient fans) and make my own fixtures. Custom made for my grow room and style is the way for me. DIY is actually pretty easy. I recommend that anyone at least consider DIY if you are at all handy. There are even parts available now that don't require soldering.

As all who research enough know, DIY reign's supreme, your only limitation's are yourself. If you got the money, go ahead and spend $2+ a chip DIY, you can build a ULTRAMEGATRON GOD COLA array for 2x the price watt for watt of most ready made unit's (Even the "quality" guy's...). Give it 2 years I say, and DIY MAY be even in pricing, but I gotta say, it's hard to match prices if the bigger companies are getting every part needed at wholesale prices(Way cheaper, even with profit's...)


My OPINION is merely based on the fact that he bought HID off the bat, showing he probably is looking to grow tree's. No personal experience with EITHER, but I have dug hour's upon hour's daily looking at EVERY option I can find, and have weighed them all evenly. I have easily found plenty of grow's keeping HID guy's happy (I am a micro/efficiency guy, I would go with Area51/Apollo style for my application's too, but I am not going as big...) with CLW. Both appear to rock, but IMO big bulky panel's are a pain... Area51's customer service seem's about the same as everybody else (Call us, well send you the part and YOU swap...). CLW is similar, but also has a 90-day money back guarantee and their warranty is 3 years instead of 2! Area51's site scream's "were gonna shut door's in 2 years" IMO (Usually the "little-guy's" trying to make a quick buck...)...

It is his decision to make. I am simply bringing to light that Area51 seem to me to be Hippocrates. Id rather go with a company who isn't claiming to be different from the rest when they are in no way shape or form innovating/designing anything (Yes, they are slapping together parts like everyone else... Only custom component on it is the housing...) At least CLW can market their light's without spreading negative vibes (The "Us Vs. Them" slogan screams Red-Neck racist to me IMO...)... George from CLW seems like a more trustworthy guy IMO, check this... My ...

 

[Neekz]

I'm not buying from nor recommending a company that lies badly enough to try to tell me that a 9 x 9 inch LED fixture will grow over a 3 x 3 area!!

Hmmm Lumigrow comes to mind... Check out growershouse.com/blog bro, the number's don't lie...

 

[Neekz]

Facts - Cree LEDs are better than no-name chips. Let's see...as I remember right it was only a few days ago - per Neekz "The output of most american made diodes is about 2-3x that of comparable chinese diode's at an equal driven current. Most american diode's can be driven higher as well, compared to chinese counterpart's." 2 - 3X the output is a pretty compelling argument for quality made LEDs.

Yes, Cree is the most efficient L.E.D. manufacturer in the world. No, Cree is not the most efficient in term's of $/uMol. Fact, a quality diode driven at 1500mA safely will outperform a quality diode driven at 800mA safely. Fact, secondary optic's deplete light, as well as narrow footprint... Fact, L.E.D. DOES produces usable light beyond 6" (As you claim, no panel can cover beyond 12" of it's physical size... Come on brother, you are one of the plagues spreading mis-information about L.E.D....).

 

[burnbradburn]

Check out the link in my signature. I kind of had the same question so i did a side by side with a 1000 watt HID and a ~779 watt LED. the wattage difference when you account for all the cooling and fans needed for HID was about 400 watts, and my gram/watt yield was higher on the LED side. So i guess what i'm trying to say is you can get similar results with less LED watts but if you use the equivalent amount of LED watts as HID you'll get a higher yield. If you use decent LED lights, that is.