First Vert: 2400w, Blue Rhino. Run what you brung!

[OG_TGR]

Thanks Trev!

You mean lighting or another level of plants?

I could do another tier of plants but I think these will fill in to where I will use two levels of lighting.
I was just running the two lights at the moment until it filled in and I was able to get my new ventilation fan in, to keep the temp down.

Speaking of which, the monster fan arrived today (Fantech FKD12XL).......just as in the 12" duct work is much more massive "in person", this thing is enormous! I can't wait to fire it up!

I'll post some pics later on.

 

[Skyrancher]

Woo Hoo !! The girls are under the lights and the show is on !

Went to the local shop today and had a glance at the 12" ducts...you weren't kidding...massive. Can't wait to see what the Fantech does for your temps.

As Trevor pointed out, you've done your homework and it shows in your posts and setup. Thanks for sharing the details of your grow. Helps a lot. Enjoying bouncing ideas back and forth.

Your setup is looking good. You must me happy to have it running after all the trials. Way to stay postive and stay on task.

 

[OG_TGR]

Thanks Skyrancher, although I am a tad bit relieved, I am not out of the proverbial woods, yet!

The scrubber I've got in there has an 8"x39". Without checking, I knew I had a slight chance that I may be able to modify the flange and still use it. Well, as it turns out it's only rated at 950cfm and besides, the fan swallows it an an OD of 11.5"!

So, I've got a few options.

I can go with the Stealth Airbox 4+ (12" flange) but it's...... $829, and weighs 120#. I'm not saying I may not get one way down the road but, I'm not prepared to drop that much money right now.

I could get an Airbox 4 (10", since I am using 10" duct, anyway) which is $500, and weighs half as much. The problem with this is it limits me down the road, as I would be using adapters before and after the fan.

I could use the filter I have, buy another just like it (~$200) and an 8"x8"x12" "Y" for around $30 and be good to go.
I am thinking I will likely do the last one. This leaves me open to add the 12" duct work, should I feel so inclined. The filters will last long enough for me to save up for an Airbox AND, it's the cheapest option; with all the parts readily accessible locally and off the shelf.

So update:
Temps today are a high of 78° with RH @51%. I took a readout of the data yesterday and I could SEE the temps rise (slightly, but gradually) when I had the door open.
Outside the room was ~10° cooler so this tells me that my intakes directly under the lights and the associated ducting are working even better than I would have expected.

I ran the pump for 60 seconds today and got run off on pretty much all sites so, I may wait another 48hrs or so to run again.

Since I had the run off I was forced to finish plumbing the drain, haha. That is still going to take some fine tuning that I will put into it tonight/tomorrow.

Also, I still haven't put the drainage grates in each saucer so I need to either fill them with hydrotons or get the grates in tomorrow. I am considering putting a strip of 1x2 under the back side of each saucer, tipping it forward and causing better drainage. I think in the end, I may do both.

Like Hosttrevor was saying, I've got to make sure they are draining well now, or there will be some soggy issues, sooner than later.

My res is outside the room this time and the pump is on an extension lead. This is a bit of a pita but, I rigged it this way yesterday so I could turn the pump on and off while I was checking all the drippers.

Instead, I'm going to run the cord through the wall where the plumbing goes, keeping the timer and cord, as well as the noisy air pump I've got, inside the insulated space.

I've got one pic right now and I changed it to B&W just to clean up the detail. Someday I'll look more into photo filters, since I just don't seem to get a chance to take pics with the lights off.

For scale here, keep in mind that those pots are 8" diameter.......

From now on, I think this is going to have to be my default hairstyle:

 

[Skyrancher]

Hahaha...not sure about the hairstyle, but I do like the fan...wow, I had no idea it would be so big. Looks it could blow your hair clean off !!

Have you fired it up yet? Would be fun to mount it on a go-cart..hahaha

You've got your hands full with the hydro. I keep reading about the increased yields people are getting them them. I have no experience with anything but soil, so it's interesting to hear about your setup. I may switch over someday, but it sounds complicated. What's your change in yields with hydro?

 

[OG_TGR]

Zero.....lol. Just because I have never once done soil.

This (coco) is the nearest I've gotten to something even close and, this is only my 3rd time doing coco.

Directly previous I had used Rockwool slabs for quite some time, and before that was DWC, NFT and a little Aero.

I am pretty sure I made that decision early on due to the potential not just for higher yields overall, but for higher Gram/Watt/Month.

I like to tinker with stuff, too, so I think the excuse to buy more gear and mess with it certainly had an appeal, hahah.

I certainly could have done soil, I knew the right people at the right time, some that had been doing it for a couple generations.


I did fire the fan up! As soon as I got it in the house I unboxed it and ran the waiting cord/plug I had set you in anticipation of the arrival.

In the living room might have not been the best place but, SUPERFAN! lol....

Within about 15 seconds I had inadvertently cleaned under all of the furniture and a cloud of dustbunnies/reciepts/cat toys and who knows what was hovering halfway up the wall in an opposite corner, making it's way back around. In another 5 seconds or so the initial blast had deflected off the opposite wall and was on the way back, by way of knocking over two lamps, breaking one, and taking 3 large framed pictures and one framed mirror off of the wall. Of course, it was just laying on the floor so the torque caused it to roll over one of the brackets and build up a little momentum, only to bring the bracket down on the other side, at speed, on my friends sandaled toe, causing him to jump up and spill both of our drinks and a glass device that happened to be sitting on the table full of stinky water....lol.

So basically, it was awesome and probably did about $2-300 worth of damage in about 30 seconds.

Worth it!

Here's a couple more shots, just to show the density:

and a saucer with rocks for drainage:

Ok, I am going to actually get the first decent sleep I've had in over a week!

Tomorrow it's off to get the new scrubber, isolation clamps, duct "Y" and in theory, I'll have all the pieces to finally get it all together!

 

[Desert Hydro]

good job so far. looking good in there all around. im with you on the DIY'ing and tinkering. always changing stuff around and trying new stuff. if i would just stick to one and master it.......

 

[Skyrancher]

I did fire the fan up! As soon as I got it in the house I unboxed it and ran the waiting cord/plug I had set you in anticipation of the arrival.

In the living room might have not been the best place but, SUPERFAN! lol....

Within about 15 seconds I had inadvertently cleaned under all of the furniture and a cloud of dustbunnies/reciepts/cat toys and who knows what was hovering halfway up the wall in an opposite corner, making it's way back around. In another 5 seconds or so the initial blast had deflected off the opposite wall and was on the way back, by way of knocking over two lamps, breaking one, and taking 3 large framed pictures and one framed mirror off of the wall. Of course, it was just laying on the floor so the torque caused it to roll over one of the brackets and build up a little momentum, only to bring the bracket down on the other side, at speed, on my friends sandaled toe, causing him to jump up and spill both of our drinks and a glass device that happened to be sitting on the table full of stinky water....lol.

So basically, it was awesome and probably did about $2-300 worth of damage in about 30 seconds.

Worth it!

HAHAHAHA...LMAO !!! You started my day off right... laughing so hard that I have tears in my eyes!!

Your description paints a vivid picture. In my mind, I can see the dust bunnies blowing, the lamps falling, then the drinks hitting the floor...hahaha. Hope your friend didn't break a toe!!

That's a great fan commercial in the making.

Never grown in soil? We are complete opposites in experience, aren't we? Having spend many hours researching on IC, is amazes me how many different methods people use to grow.

I plan to recycle my indoor soil into making larger holes outdoor, so I may not try hydro anytime soon, but I like learning, so I'll pull up a chair to watch the show.

To bad the video camera wasn't on for the first fan test. I'm still chuckling...what a show!!

 

[OG_TGR]

good job so far. looking good in there all around. im with you on the DIY'ing and tinkering. always changing stuff around and trying new stuff. if i would just stick to one and master it.......

Thanks DH. I tell ya, I've almost always had something to mess with. I mean, if something is working great, that is good but if you KNOW it could do better, why not I say?
Something could be said for mastering one particular method but then again, are you also going to stay with that one particular strain, too?

I did run the same strain for many years actually, and it was one I bred back in the Overgrow days. When I harvested the last plant it was a little bittersweet, for sure. I am pretty sure the strain still lives on in at least two places, should I ever want to run it again.

I usually come full circle every couple of years or so, lol. That's not to say I go back to where I was at that time; rather I revert to elemental factors that I know will work and allow me to eliminate whatever extraneous stuff I may have instituted along the way.

It's a matter of perspective, imo. I've got a close friend that says that too me all the time (just stick with one thing) and I doubt I ever, ever will.

That just sounds boring to me...

HAHAHAHA...LMAO !!! You started my day off right... laughing so hard that I have tears in my eyes!!

That's a great fan commercial in the making.

lol, I agree on the commercial! I was thinking the same thing as I was sweeping up the glass!

 

[OG_TGR]

Oh almost forgot I was going to add this photo:

Next generation: Cannadential, real excited about this one!

 

[OG_TGR]

well temps are looking wonderful, and I think the fan that is already in there could possibly be sufficient with the cool temps we've had but, better safe that sorry!

I am currently watering once a 1minute/day. By the time I come around the next day to manually water, there is a bit of moisture (see photo) but not too much. Today I ran for only 45seconds just to see how that does tomorrow.

I am curious if any of the "Vert pros" may have any input on my plant density? I still have to trim back quite a bit and will probably do so tomorrow, and use the cuttings for clones. I've already taken 30 off of them and you can't even tell!

I'm going to let them veg through this week and then I've got to hit the flip. I don't see any point in adding the second light right now, as it seems it would be wasted energy with the plants at this height.

The one photo shows some yellowing leaves, that is from when I first let them go without watering, one or two plants really got dry and those are the leaves that didn't recover. Everything else, including the rest of those 2 plants, looks great.

Thanks for looking!

 

[Dr.RedWhite]

Cool Thread. Seems the ducting is on the large side as 6" has always worked for me. Your going with no fan under the light? Just an inlet hole? It's late and I found your thread after too many hours on the computer. How big is your passive intake? are you constantly running your exhaust fan when the light is on?

 

[Desert Hydro]

i really like how youve got your bulbs cooled. i may have to steal that if my temps get out of hand lol.

 

[Skyrancher]

Can't speak to palnt density, but Desert Hydro and I are going to grow in bulk rockwool to increase growth rate. Have you seen this thread yet?

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=257889

 

[Skyrancher]

Like the pic of the seeds !!

 

[Hosttrevor]

Looks like you got things under control OG, its going to get interesting here I reckon ;-)

I'll definitely be interested in what kind of yield you pull off the 2,400w, the same lighting as my set up (except for the cock up with the 400w ballast used for one out of four of the 600w bulbs, doh!) with a standard trained horizontal canopy.

Trev

 

[OG_TGR]

Flip it

Flip it

Cool Thread. Seems the ducting is on the large side as 6" has always worked for me. Your going with no fan under the light? Just an inlet hole? It's late and I found your thread after too many hours on the computer. How big is your passive intake? are you constantly running your exhaust fan when the light is on?

Altogether I have 170"^2 (6x6") passive intake area. My exhaust is 12"/2200cfm, dialed back.
According to the formula in the Ventilation 101 thread, I will need almost 4 times that to accommodate the 1200cfm I am shooting for (144^2/300cfm).
Temperatures are running cool for this time of year, I may be able to get away with less, until next summer.
The drawback to eliminating the fans is that when the door is open, there is no active cooling at the bulb.

i really like how youve got your bulbs cooled. i may have to steal that if my temps get out of hand lol.

Any day I can eliminate even the slightest power draw is a good day!

Can't speak to palnt density, but Desert Hydro and I are going to grow in bulk rockwool to increase growth rate. Have you seen this thread yet?

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=257889

I had not seen that, looks really nice. That would be cool if I had the space to veg for 12 weeks and then move it.
There is no way I could justify vegging in place for 12 weeks!
It looks nice when you see it initially, and there is no denying that that set up is impressive but; he states that he is shooting for the max per sqft, but leaves the time factor out.
I am shooting for maximum gm/W/month, which breaks down to maximum weight/kWh or best ROI.
I see this reference made many times but gram/watt is completely arbitrary if you don't take into consideration how long it takes to get there. Factor in time spent working on it as billable hours, and your ROI really starts to plummet.
Sure, anyone could feasibly get 2,3,4+ lbs/plant if they veg long enough. Hell, aren't there outdoor plants that have 5-10lbs+?
If he is vegging 12 weeks and say that strain takes 10 weeks, that is 22 weeks from beginning to end.
Let's say for conservative estimates he stays at around 7#/4kw (.784gpw).

I believe the average utility costs are currently somewhere in the area of 8-12 cents so, lets say $.10=
Over the course of one year that breaks down to:

Veg 26280 kWh/y (18*4*365)

Bloom 17520 kWh/y (12*4*365)

7(#)*5.2(w) = 36.4#/year


43810/36.4 = 1204kWh/# = 2.69kwh/g ($.27/g @ $.10/kwh)

Now, let's say someone else is running 4 600s, and 240w VHO T5s at the same utility rate, and consistently getting what they would consider bare minimum, absolutely shitty yields of 12oz/600 (.56gpw); it would break down something like this:

1577 kwh/y

13140 kwh/y

3*5.2 = 15.6

13140/15.6 = 842kwh/# = 1.88kwh/g ($.19/g @ $.10/kwh)

Of course, I would like to increase my gpw, but I am most concerned about increasing gpw/m.

The way that many people refer to yields seems very arbitrary to me without time factored in, too.

I am also trying to absolutely minimize any sort of Rockwool use whatsoever. I am pretty much stuck with it in the small veg phase right now, although I am working on alternatives.
The small cubes (1") aren't too bad to get rid of but I hate having to dispose of large volumes of RW.

So, here's where I am at:

I had to set things to autopilot for a few days and overall I believe it went just fine. I did notice some yellowing on a couple leaves but I think this will be remedied by stepping up the feed schedule.
I have started 12/12, currently feeding 2/day/1min, up from 1/day/1 min.
pH is holding steady.

Next on the list:

• Add second set of drippers to each site
• Finish installing new fan/ductwork
• Fabriacte/install second tier light holders

I am seriously considering going back to the first configuration I had considered, 4 individual bulbs in 4 individual screens. If I am going to to that, I need to do it now, I suppose.

I'll probably sit in there and ponder it today, with a tape measure in hand! ha

 

[OG_TGR]

Looks like you got things under control OG, its going to get interesting here I reckon ;-)

I'll definitely be interested in what kind of yield you pull off the 2,400w, the same lighting as my set up (except for the cock up with the 400w ballast used for one out of four of the 600w bulbs, doh!) with a standard trained horizontal canopy.

Trev

Thanks man, hopefully interesting in a good way and not a "omfg-I-don't-know-what-the-hell-happened-I-hope-I-can-fix-this-shit!" kind of way, lol.
I am curious as well. I can already see how there is a feeling out process as far as training/trimming, as well as density. I've been training in horizontal screens for years now and I just feel like I am really doing that correctly, so I am approaching this in quite teh same manner.
I am really feeling that my plant density may be too high as far as plants/ft/circumference.
Because of this I'm leaning towards maybe putting it back as I had it first with 4 individual screens and lights. The only reason I changed to the stacked configuration was that I thought I was going to have to, to control heat.
Now that I've got the monster fan, I don't think that is going to be an issue whatsoever.
I guess it's just a matter of how bad I feel like tearing it all down, moving all the plants, and plumbing another drain/feed system.

Hopefully you can get your clone issues sorted out, so you'll be ready to switch when it comes time!!

 

[Skyrancher]

The girls are looking good. Other than a couple yellow leaves, they look fat and happy.

As for rockwool, I agree that disposing of it will be a problem. Not sure how to handle that one, since I live out in the woods. How have you disposed of rockwool in the past?

I do like the increase in yields vs. soil. Since you aren't using soil, it wouldn't make as big a difference for you I guess. Thinking about vegging 6 to 8 weeks depending on how my strains fill the room. Will be some trial and error to figure out strains and vegging times. Similiar to DJM's Rockwool Trees, I'm planning to stage growth so that half the flower room gets havested every month. I don't have the space or ceiling hieght to grow trees, but I want to reduce plant numbers. Haven't decided to go with the rockwool.

Still thinking about it. Why does rockwool produce faster growth? Is it that the roots have more air space and easy to grow and move through the medium? Would adding perlite to soild have a similiar effect?

Ok...enough hi-jacking your thread.

Wanted to ask about your drip emitters. What are you using? I have been using pressure compensating emitters outdoor, which helps ensure each plants gets the same flow rate. They don't spread the water out at all though, so I end up using 5 or 6 emitters per 120 gallon hole. Why are you adding another emitter?

Looking forward to seeing the girl flower and to see the super fan blow. Video???

 

[Desert Hydro]

bulk rockwool is reusable. im on my second run with mine and they look healthy as hell. its a pain getting the roots out but then again if you reuse your coco then you know all about that. it sucks. not saying you should switch over or anything, just making a point lol

 

[OG_TGR]

The girls are looking good. Other than a couple yellow leaves, they look fat and happy.

As for rockwool, I agree that disposing of it will be a problem. Not sure how to handle that one, since I live out in the woods. How have you disposed of rockwool in the past?

I do like the increase in yields vs. soil. Since you aren't using soil, it wouldn't make as big a difference for you I guess. Thinking about vegging 6 to 8 weeks depending on how my strains fill the room. Will be some trial and error to figure out strains and vegging times. Similiar to DJM's Rockwool Trees, I'm planning to stage growth so that half the flower room gets havested every month. I don't have the space or ceiling hieght to grow trees, but I want to reduce plant numbers. Haven't decided to go with the rockwool.

Still thinking about it. Why does rockwool produce faster growth? Is it that the roots have more air space and easy to grow and move through the medium? Would adding perlite to soild have a similiar effect?

Ok...enough hi-jacking your thread.

Wanted to ask about your drip emitters. What are you using? I have been using pressure compensating emitters outdoor, which helps ensure each plants gets the same flow rate. They don't spread the water out at all though, so I end up using 5 or 6 emitters per 120 gallon hole. Why are you adding another emitter?

Looking forward to seeing the girl flower and to see the super fan blow. Video???

Yeah those few yellow leaves were left over from when I wasn't feeding enough the first few days. I left them on to see if they may recover, I've since removed them all.

I've disposed of RW many ways but it seems the only way to really get rid of it is throw it in the trash. It doesn't break down and it doesn't integrate very well, in my experience. It is completely inorganic matter.

Another issue is that if you are going to attempt to dispose of it in say, a garden area, you need to really break it up and that can cause issues if you inhale any of the particulate. At one point I let a friend take all my twigs, clippings, trim and RW scraps and burn them in a giant fire pit, until, after a relatively short time; we realized the RW was accumulating......and that was the end of that.


I used RW for years, about 15 in all I suppose, and I think it worked just fine. So far this is my 3rd coco under my belt and I feel it is certainly comparable. Everything has it's pitfalls and fine tuning and I feel that they are similar here.

Keep in mind, the coco grows were also my first times running DTW. At this point the coco is clearly effective enough to convince me that I will not go back to RW, for my particular/specific reasons. That's not to say those reasons are for everyone else, but for my own personal preference.

As much utilities as I'm using, I need to be as environmentally friendly on the backside of production as I can.

Reusing anything like this is certainly possible but as DH said, it's a pain in the ass. I've heard of people reusing the coco a couple times but I haven't bothered with it. I also never even considered reusing my RW as it was completely permeated with roots and it would be nearly impossible to remove them all, and potentially would leave behind plant matter to decompose in the next run.

I imagine bulk RW is a bit easier to separate the roots from than say, slabs; but it's still way more hassle than I want to deal with.

With the Coco, you can toss it in a garden/raised bed/field and the whole shebang will eventually reintegrate into the surrounding soil. I can take the whole mess out in the woods and dump/scatter it somewhere and I am not doing any environmental damage.

The only time I would even consider reusing mediums is if I was stranded out in the middle of somewhere where the soil didn't present a viable solution and there was absolutely no way I could replace my medium.

I've always kept my number well within federal regulations (>100 plants) including vegging clones. It seems to me that if you are going to have less than 100, you might as well be close.

Conversely if you are going to be OVER 100, might as well blow it up and go big.

That being said, I've been able to be successful with relatively low numbers and still had room to veg the plants 5, 6 even 7 weeks, separately.
Before this vertical grow, I never ran more than 4 to 5 plants max, per light, and I never had more than 5 lights in bloom.

[I was considering a fan video the other day, I may have to do that, lol]

bulk rockwool is reusable. im on my second run with mine and they look healthy as hell. its a pain getting the roots out but then again if you reuse your coco then you know all about that. it sucks. not saying you should switch over or anything, just making a point lol

Argeed. But just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should, lol...


Everything looks great. I cut the holes to put the other screens in, hung the lights, and said fuck it....lol.

I've already got this configuration so I will run it, then change next time for comparison.

The ladies are shooting up nicely and it is already about time to add the second tier of light....one week later......

This leads me to believe that my plant density is, as I suspected, quite possibly too high. That's ok, just more trimming/training and I think I can keep it under control.

I'll try to post pics tomorrow.

Thanks for looking, everyone.