Organic Soil Moisture Management

[Mr. Krinkle]

that whole root pruning thing is malarkey - you won't even notice a difference

 

[SpicySativa]

that whole root pruning thing is malarkey - you won't even notice a difference

Well, I don't entirely agree with you on that one. I do notice a much more fibrous root ball when I start in 1-gal smart pots. When I transplant, I see HUNDREDS of root tips poking out of the soil (sides and bottom) rather than a handfull of roots circling the bottom of the pot. That's why I still plan to start in the smarties for that "foundation" of fibrous feeder roots.

I'm all about experimenting and learning. If this method doesn't work how I want it to I'll just keep on experimenting...

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

yea but weight and quality are still the same

so no difference

its malarkey

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

half of this is sifting thru the malarkey

its a sea of malarkey out there and i would hope as fellow gardeners, we would be able to call shenanigans at the appropriate times

and i believe this is the appropriate time


im calling shenanigans on air pruning pots effective immediately

 

[SpicySativa]

Not trying to start an online argument, but it took me all of 30 seconds to find a peer reviewed scientific research paper showing that air root pruning is NOT malarkey. They were studying different plants (not cannabis), but you get the idea...

http://www.hriresearch.org/docs/publications/JEH/JEH_1996/JEH_1996_14_2/JEH 14-2-47-49.pdf

Here is the benefit that I am trying to take advantage of by starting my plants in Smart Pots before moving to their final homes:

"... initial root growth in plants after transplanting was increased above that of plants in conventional containers by copper and air-pruning methods".

Hard science, not malarkey.

Now it's up to US to decide how we use it. I plan to gain these benefits early on while the plant is focussing on root growth, then transplant to a conventional pot to minimize evaporation from the sides of the pot (which causes a dry/dead zone around the perimeter of the pot).

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

pffft cmon man - those guys get paychecks to produce shenanigans to us...

 

[SpicySativa]

Believe what you want to believe. I'm much more inclined to believe peer reviewed scientific research than pot growing forum chatter (talk about malarkey...).

So who's paying them? And I suppose that means all the reviewers were also on the payroll? And the university? And the scientific publication? I don't think a company like RootBuilder or Smart Pot makes enough money to sway a whole scientific community into an unethical situation that could cost them their careers and reputations.

When I was at a university, I was paid by a private company to research one of their products. My conclusion was that their product did not function as advertised. Guess what! I still got paid.

 

[Carlos Danger]

I've been using them for close to two years now. There is zero rootbinding issues typical of plastic containers and the root systems are much richer. You're looking too deep for malarky and peer review conspiracies.

 

[Granger2]

Also, Krinkle, just because your production was the same doesn't mean that that's true for others. In coco/perlite 3gal AeroBags the roots get so thick near harvest that the percolation rate slows. The medium is that heavy throughout with roots. -granger

 

[EclipseFour20]

Many ways to add air to soil...and "air pots" is one commercial alternative.

Me...I do it the old fashion way: Adjust the growing medium aggregates until the desired Air Porosity Rate is achieved. Since I find myself in a predicament where I have more "time than money" right now....for me, adjusting the growing medium is a hell of lot cheaper than buying air pots.

As to "air pruning"...I say the jury is still out on this one; nothing definitive from any "objective study" when it comes to harvest yields and quality.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

Believe what you want to believe. I'm much more inclined to believe peer reviewed scientific research than pot growing forum chatter (talk about malarkey...).

So who's paying them? And I suppose that means all the reviewers were also on the payroll? And the university? And the scientific publication? I don't think a company like RootBuilder or Smart Pot makes enough money to sway a whole scientific community into an unethical situation that could cost them their careers and reputations.

When I was at a university, I was paid by a private company to research one of their products. My conclusion was that their product did not function as advertised. Guess what! I still got paid.

so you researched something at a university and got paid...so what


air pruning pots are still malarkey i dont care what your roots look like in the end-

whether they're at the bottom or pruned all over - its all the same

 

[Carlos Danger]

Krinkle if the peer review is in such a state I guess we can just shut up shop and never trust science or any cited study ever. What sort of refutation is that? "They probably did it for money". We'll just forget everything we've read and studied out of the scientific community because they're in on a scam for that big peer-review money. God if only I could get my hands on some of that sweet grad student pay, then I'd be on easy street.

And to say "I don't care what they look like it's all the same" isn't a response that makes sense. The roots are noticeably thicker and more diffuse. I don't get those ginormous roots that wrap the containers - by the end of a cycle my container is basically solid thick roots. To dismiss things that are different as not to win an argument is silly. You've basically spent two pages saying "I don't care what your experiences are, I know you're wrong because I'm right"

Yanno I'm gonna nip a shitflower in the bud and set you on ignore right now.

 

[dank.frank]

Krinkle - Just so you know and don't blame someone else, on post #31 - that 0 of 1 - is me.

He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a master. -HST



dank.Frank

 

[VerdantGreen]

ime the best way to get more root mass in the soil is to do a few timely up-pots with suitably shaped containers during veg.

i always examine the root ball pretty carefully when i tip out my pots after harvest.

VG

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

Krinkle - Just so you know and don't blame someone else, on post #31 - that 0 of 1 - is me.

He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a master. -HST



dank.Frank

i dont really care but thanks i guess


air pruning pots make no difference im my experience - sorry that bothers you but thats the way it is....they're malarkey....

 

[SpicySativa]

If you'd like to discuss actual results, actual observations, actual science, or actual experiences, count me in. If not, you've stated your opinion, now move along.

All this talk of "malarkey" isn't doing anyone any good.

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

ok

i'm just sayin...you don't have to get all defensive about it...


i just hope that somebody who is thinking about switching from plastic pots to air pruned pots, that in the end, it doesn't make a difference - i saw it with my own 2 eyes and i'd rather hear that than from some scientific study by who knows....

but by all means, if you think they're so much better, then go ahead and use em - but im tellin ya - its just another pot to plant in....that also leaks a lot so water them slowly lol

 

[SpicySativa]

ok

i'm just sayin...you don't have to get all defensive about it...


i just hope that somebody who is thinking about switching from plastic pots to air pruned pots, that in the end, it doesn't make a difference - i saw it with my own 2 eyes and i'd rather hear that than from some scientific study by who knows....

but by all means, if you think they're so much better, then go ahead and use em - but im tellin ya - its just another pot to plant in....that also leaks a lot so water them slowly lol

Man.. Now you're just cracking me up! So the whole gardening industry (not just ganja farmers; herb isn't so different from other crops) should abandon air root pruning pots because Professor Krinkle saw with his own two eyes that they don't work?

Why so negative about science and university research? Get kicked out of college?

It cracks me up when people try to write off scientific research because the scientists got paid. OF COURSE THE SCIENTISTS GOT PAID! It's what they do for a living! It's no big conspiracy, and it often doesn't even pay well. I was paid a whopping $15/hr for my thesis research, even though my findings were bad news for the company funding the project. Even so, the results were invaluable, because the company was able to improve their product.

 

[EclipseFour20]

Objectively speaking--lets talk dollar$ & cent$.

Container Cost
5 gallon plastic pot--$2.15
5 gallon air-pot--$10.80
...$8.65 premium

Fertility/Nutes
5 gallon plastic--once every 3-7 days.
5 gallon air-pots--once every 2-3 days
...twice the watering (and perhaps twice the cost of Ferts/Nutes/Enzymes...etc)

Durability
5 gallon plastic--some of mine are almost 10 years old
5 gallon air-pot--1-2 years?

Yield & Quality
5 gallon plastic--this I know, for me I average 100-120 grams per plant (per container)
5 gallon air-pot--lets say its the same....then, is it worth the premium?

Sometimes products are introduced in this industry primarily for one reason...and one reason only: to make someone else rich.

Cheers!

 

[Carlos Danger]

Eclipse, I understand your point but I think it's a little unfair, especially here in organics. For the record most of us here are using SmartPots, not Airpots - http://www.smartpots.com/ - http://www.airpotgarden.com/ . I paid $10 for my 10 gal smartpots, and have not had any issue with them breaking down over the course of two years. I have two 100 gal. smartpots in use as my worm bins and have seen no degradation in material. Almost all of the old gang here used them as well to great benefit. The fact they have handles is almost worth the premium in my mind. Hauling 5 or 10 gal containers is so much easier when you have an actual handle.

I have been vastly happier with my smartpots than with plastic. Yes you have to water slower if you let your soil dry out, but in my situation with a thick top mulch my containers rarely have issues drying out. To say twice the watering means doubling down on ferts/nutes/enzymes is to miss the point of organics, which is that most of us aren't fertilizing very often, and if we do we tend to use our own cheap homemade inputs. My splurging on Ag-Sil16h and Guano were the first times I've bought real fertilizer in forever, and they're only for my outdoor plants. I'm not going to claim air-pruned pots have a higher yield, but I feel that they do bring a greater balance in roots:top growth, and having a thicker richer root system helps maintain plant health overall.

It's an easy dismissal to cite the money, but I know people running large scale garden centers and tree nurseries who also swear by these things. This isn't another ridiculous hydro-store product that normal gardeners scratch their head over, it's an improvement over an older design.