Verticial vs gavita vs ePapillon

[Hammerhead]

I have been a Vertical gower for years and love it. Im very interested in these new 400v DE lighting systems.. Im curious if these will perfrom as well as verticial. they have a much higher par rating and can penetrate deeper into the plants canopy.


Im putting the Vertical cords away for the winter gowing season. im going to test 1 Gavita 1000w 400v with the Philips bulb with remote ballast and 1 ePapillon 1000W 400V DE philips bulb complete fixture with Ballast attached.

Both of these can boost the wattage to 1150...I personal think I will see a improved yield with these. I have a PAR meter that I will use to measure both systems. I will hookup a normal 1000w Solistek to the DE bulb to get some par readings.

there has been some discusion that any digital ballast will fire the DE bulbs this is true but does it run the bulb at it peak operating temp/voltage. is there any effect on par values...im wounding what my vertical brothers have to say..If there is any test that you would like to see me do please post them here...

 

[Pangea]

Sounds like a good test!
I'm very interested in your solistek test.

Anyone see the adjustawing DE reflector?

Lamps prices seem to be coming down, seen a source on amazon for $99.


Thanks HH!

 

[Hammerhead]

I have the Sunlight supply DE reflector(large) with a remote Gavita Ballast.. The EP is on its way..

I have tried the solistek already. it does fire the bulb but I dont think it's running at the proper frequncy or voltage. The Gavita Ballast does something to provide the ulb with 400v and 100khz? I think...

 

[SecondAttempt]

Watching for results... Thanks HH for using your time and $$$ to test this equipment for the good of the community.

 

[Pangea]

I have the Sunlight supply DE reflector(large) with a remote Gavita Ballast.. The EP is on its way..

I have tried the solistek already. it does fire the bulb but I dont think it's running at the proper frequncy or voltage. The Gavita Ballast does something to provide the ulb with 400v and 100khz? I think...

Dang, seems like a sound assessment, one of the two at least are probably not in alignment with what it was designed for.

Thanks, and much looking forward to the other tests.

 

[HenDokuYaku]

Great stuff! Thanks... If you could check canopy heat and heat of reflector. I've been hearing a lot of hearsay about the E-papillon (Philips) reflector dissipating heat the best.

Also, I know both companies recommend supplemental lighting. Gavita has their plasma and then there is the D-Papillon which is a 315w CMH ballast.

Thanks for putting this together. This info will help a lot of us.

 

[Hammerhead]

I wont be adding any other lighting then what I have. The Gavita will go on the left side the Vertical 600 MH is in the middel. the EP will go on the right side...

 

[adz007]

Awesome, interested in this thanks hammerhead

 

[Skyrancher]

Just what I needed Hammerhead...I'm planning a room right now and the test your doing will help be make decisions on which way to go with lighting. I want to use overlapping light in my room using either bare bulb or a DE system, so your test speaks directly to my decision.

I had just about given up on using the 400v DE systems, but I'm back to considering them after reading your thread. I have 4 or 5 months to buy equipment, so your timing is good for me. Thanks for doing this!!

From what I've read, you're spot on with your thinking on the Solis Tek firing the DE bulb. The Gavita ballasts are matched to the Philips bulb for maximum output. If you want solid info on Gavita, look up for posts from whazzup, who is the Gavita pro. Actually, he just might jump into your thread?

Looking forward to the show....Subscribed

 

[Hammerhead]

he already has but he is biased. we can't get a neutral answer from him as he is a Gavita rep.

 

[Mister_D]

Good test HH, very interested to see your results . Curious what par meter you are using?

Also a bit off topic, but what 600w MH are you using, and thoughts on it's performance?

 

[whatthe215]

awesome thanks for trying this man!

will each setup have it's own tent/room?

i'm already tired of these adjustawings i have. some hot spots, more than i'm used to being a vert guy with no reflector to mess with light spread. another + for vert.

do you plan to use a grid of some sort to take readings? perhaps using a trellis as a reference for different points? a4, c7, f2, b3.. that sorta thing.

 

[BldSwtTrs]

I recently fired up a new 8 light gavita run and am LOVING them so far.

Gavitas really are quality equipment.

I am running (4) 5x10 custom built flood tables with (2) gavitas over each table. Running sog beds. So far I have to say these things are bad ass. Tons of light and very easy to work with/hang. I have even canopies and the actual plant canopy is closer to 6x11.

The gavitas put out so much light that when I first transplanted into the beds I fried the shit out of my plants even thought he lights were about 4 feet above the canopy.

The selling point for me on gavitas over e-pap was the ease of changing out gavita reflectors. They are cheap and the actual swap is simple. Over time ALL metal reflectors will oxidize so I elected to go with the cheap/easy reflector replacement.

The 5x10 gavita tables make my traditional 4x8 tables look tiny so I hope I can pull some solid weight.

Point of this rant is that ya can't go wrong with any of the styles you listed. If you end up getting an e-pap post some info/pics on is so the rest of us newbs can learn!

 

[Stonefree69]

I think vertical's canopy coverage advantage will still outweigh the DE's lumen advantage in the end. Good thing those DE reflectors don't use glass cause that 8% PAR or lumen advantage would go out the window. Even good low iron solar glass loses about 10% light transmittance.

In larger scale veg situations I don't think though you can beat these lights.

 

[BldSwtTrs]

I think most people greatly overestimate the light coverage of vertical. Most horizontal canopies are significantly thicker/deeper than vertical pretty much negating the advantage of vertical lighting.

Its all about lighting per cubic foot, not per square foot like most people think.

 

[Treetroit City]

I think most people greatly overestimate the light coverage of vertical. Most horizontal canopies are significantly thicker/deeper than vertical pretty much negating the advantage of vertical lighting.

Its all about lighting per cubic foot, not per square foot like most people think.

Exactly how I look at it.

And I agree that one must be careful when going from veg to Gativa's. I have to turn mine down to 600 upon entry and slowly turn them up over the coarse of a few weeks.

Maybe it's because I veg under 600's but I screwed up a few crops trying to put them under the Gativa's set at 1150 or even 1000

 

[DHF]

I think most people greatly overestimate the light coverage of vertical. Most horizontal canopies are significantly thicker/deeper than vertical pretty much negating the advantage of vertical lighting.

Its all about lighting per cubic foot, not per square foot like most people think.

If that`s so BST , then why`s D9`s take on par and umols claiming that "less" light is needed rather than MORE as in the baseline that was built yrs ago by old heads that witnessed first hand results with bare bulbs hangin and multiple lights hittin plants from different angles......now......

I`m not arguing the fact about your flat grows with reflector based lights HAVING to penetrate deeper into a "denser" canopy with increased plant number SOG setups , and .......

I suppose that`s where you`re coming up with per "cubic" ft , but I assure you after many MANY yrs of NOTHIN but bare bulb setups , that with everything covered in the reflective material of one`s choice including the ceilings was the best shot at dialed consistent returns I ever came up with , and......

Light penetration into WHATEVER canopy you decide to penetrate INTO be it sideways , or concentrated down onto a flood and drain table with horizontal reflected light , if yas start with 50 watts per sq ft of grow area , yas have a good and or better chance of dialin yer shit with yields across the board increasing as each strain AND environment is dialed accordingly......

Vertical SOG setups don`t HAVE the density of canopy that SOG setups have with flat grows because they`re spread out on 4 walls without anything BEHIND em....except reflective material to bounce lumens RIGHT back at em once past em.....

The same in no way , shape , form , or fashion can be said about reflected light down toward a set target of a 4 x 8 OR 5 x 10 , or 6 x 11 that you say your gavita`s are actually coverin.........

BST....I ain`t bitchin atchas , but that last post is at best a generalization without any foundation to back it up since most 4 x 8`s have 2-1KW`s above em @ 60 + watts per sq ft above with NO reflection to the sides with NO reflectivity BACK at the plants , and that`s why ALL flood tables returns I`ve ever seen ALWAYS suffer from the outside perimeters of the tables.....I`m just sayin.....

Let`s not play apples and oranges in the vert forum Bro.....Got nothing but respect for dialed horizontal grows , but growin sideways with bare bulbs even though it`s been practiced for many yrs , MOST ain`t got a fuckin clue on howta bring it on home , so......

My 2 cents from all them yrs.....Hope ya`ll find whatchas`re lookin for with new and improved ways ta dial flat grows.....I KNOW what I did for yrs and yrs , and the FIRST time I tried flat growin with the free cool tubes I got in a promotional campaign from MDHYDRO, I lost yields by at least 40% , so.....

It`s all in whatchas know and learn , and NOT from random pieces of hydro whore manufactured equipment IME , but who knows.......

Maybe bare bulb setups will become a thing of the past , butchas couldn`t prove it by me lookin at HL45`s 4 plant 5 light flip rooms........

Good luck on your experiment HH......Respect....and....

Peace.....DHF.........

 

[DHF]

Exactly how I look at it.

And I agree that one must be careful when going from veg to Gativa's. I have to turn mine down to 600 upon entry and slowly turn them up over the coarse of a few weeks.

Maybe it's because I veg under 600's but I screwed up a few crops trying to put them under the Gativa's set at 1150 or even 1000

All new setups and equipment useage and dialage COME with a learning curve AND "grower error"......

Ya`ll know they make light meters ta keep yas from burnin yer bitches up right ?.......

Peace....DHF............

 

[Desert Hydro]

All new setups and equipment useage and dialage COME with a learning curve AND "grower error"......

Ya`ll know they make light meters ta keep yas from burnin yer bitches up right ?.......

Peace....DHF............

i heard that! every time i switch thinking something better is out there when in reality i should have picked something and stuck with it and mastered it.

any chance of running these new fancy bulbs vert? haha

 

[BldSwtTrs]

DHF man I think you misinterpreted my message. I meant that even though vert lights cover way more sqf of plants, the total plant mass lit in horizontal and vertical growing is much closer than people think.

I have stated many times that I think vertical growing is superior to horizontal growing for yield. I don't think anybody is debating it.

As far as your other comments about SOG tables always having low yields because of lack of reflection and the resulting weaker out edge growth, I would never use that as any sort of benchmark for results because that is simply a poor design. Just like you, I think total reflection is a necessary part of any design.

Don't know what ya mean by barebulbs vs because I don't think anybody would ever debate that. I have never ran anything but barebulbs and never would for the same reasons you mentioned.

Everybody just has to maximize their resources, whether is be time, money, space, plants, whatever. To each their own.