Root Aphids and Fungus Gnats in organic soil

[Midnight Tokar]

OK, so my current grow is about done (7-10 days), I chopped two plants today as one was done and the other was close but had deficiency problems for a few weeks. When I looked at my soil, the deficient plant had red-assed Root Aphids and Fungus Gnat larvae. The soil was much dryer in the bag that I didn't see these bastards in than the one with the pests.

I recycle my organic soil and have a new batch of ten gallons "cooking" right now. I was planning on re-amending the "old" soil and mixing it with the new a few weeks before re-use. I am using Neem meal, Crab meal, Alfalfa meal and Diatomaceous Earth (among other things) in the new soil and re-amending the old with the same.

I will have about 30 gallons of used soil and if possible would like to re-use it. Is there anything I can do to get rid of these little bastards while my new soil is "cooking"? I have Bayer Complete Insect Killer (Imid). I am currently letting my old soil completely dry out in the sun. I have about 6-8 weeks before I start again.

I haven't seen any Flyers until about 10 days ago and it was just a few and thought they were Fungus Gnats and then about a week ago I noticed a few of them were quite a bit bigger...........
I keep a No-Pest Strip in my room and usually have no problems. BTW these plants are all from seed.

Thanks for any help.

 

[SpicySativa]

If we're only talking 10 gallons of soil... Is it really worth the effort? I'd just mix up a new batch and cut your losses.

Maybe not the answer you were looking for, but what can ya do...

 

[backyardbogfan]

Less water and smartpots help with root bugs in container grows.

 

[SoilFoodWeb]

If I was trying to keep things organic I would probably amend my medium with Met52 (Metarhizium anisopliae), populate it with predators (Hypoaspis miles, nematodes), and use Botanigard ES to keep their populations from getting out of hand. I would ditch the NPS as well

Growers should use caution when dealing with NPS because of its toxicity to humans and animals. You shouldn't use "No-Pest Strips" and other products containing Dichlorvos on flowering plants because of its chance of leaving residual amounts of the active ingredient on your plants. Dichlorvos (The active chemical in No-Pest Strips) is considered a carcinogen and if used with your plants, it should only be used in the vegetation cycle and plants rinsed with water before flowering so you dont have a chance of leaving chemical residue on your harvest if possible. The active chemical (Dichlorvos) can be rinsed off and breaks-down in water but is also a dangerous insecticide and should NOT be used in living areas where people have a chance to inhale the chemical. (People growing in their homes with children, pets etc.)

There needs to be a sticky thread about this because I seem to see plenty of people on the internet using these things improperly.

Info about Dichlorvos:

http://www.athe thieving con-man's placer.cdc.gov/tfacts88.html

http://envirocancer.cornell.edu/FactSheet/Pesticide/fs20.dichlorvos.cfm

http://safe2use.com/poisons-pesticides/pesticides/misc/dichlorvos.htm

*****This is NOT a thread to discuss the effects of Dichlorvos. It is simply a thread to give caution to those using NPS.

Im not telling you NOT to use them... I have used them myself and still do. They are a very fast, easy, and efficient solution to get rid of spidermites. I am asking you to be cautious because it is a dangerous chemical like most chemical pesticides. The only reason I am posting this is because I have been reading how people are using these things lately. (using them in closet grows where people sleep etc.) I actually noticed this a couple years ago, but even more now.

When used, they shouldn't be used in rooms where people and animals will be, and make sure too use no and/or low ventilation for no more than 7 days... Then plants rinsed off with water to break down the active chemical if there is any possiblity of leaving a residue. The NPS makes your grow room a little gaschamber for the mites and will kill them dead.

 

[Midnight Tokar]

If we're only talking 10 gallons of soil... Is it really worth the effort? I'd just mix up a new batch and cut your losses.

Maybe not the answer you were looking for, but what can ya do...

If it makes any difference, it's actually 30 gallons of used, plus 10 gallons of new soil added in a month or so..

I get paranoid buying peat and amendments and so I'd like to keep what I have..........is at all possible. I'm also kicking around the idea of baking it in batches in the oven. I don't know how long or at what temp. though. I know it will kill all bene's..... but I'll be adding 10 gallons of new soil to give it a jump start.
Any thoughts on this?

I'm trying to avoid using any chemicals, I use the NPS as a preventative and I saw that thread and try to limit my exposure to it.

 

[backyardbogfan]

Your growing cannabis and your worried about buying soil? I suggest adding a packet of tomato seeds when you buy soil.
The NSA is also reading this.

 

[ozzieAI]

i recycle my soil and have successfully kept RA & FG out of my grow for quite i while now using pure neem oil as a soil drench and neem cake as an amendment...

tomato seeds are a good idea....good luck

 

[EclipseFour20]

For the record, Botanigard is NOT organic, rather Mycotrol®O is--but get ready to pay twice the price.

Here we have 2 products with identical active ingredient, made by the same company...but processed differently--one was produced "normally" ($85/quart) and the other more "eco-friendly" ($75/pint).

IMHO, the price tag to be an "organic purist" can be confiscatory at times...especially when products are "identical" in both content and action, but the "organic" one is twice the price.

BTW, I disclose that, although I follow organic principles, I AM NOT 100% ORGANIC. Its easier to be honest!

Cheers!

 

[Mr. Krinkle]

dude leaving that NO PEST strip in your room is bad news - thats a carcinogen ya know....you dont wanna be around that thing, inhaling it....

 

[VerdantGreen]

gnats are easy ime - your soil is too consistently wet if you have gnats.

root aphids - i would most definitely ditch any soil that had a RA infestation. that said, you may be able to kill them with heat or neem.... but i wouldnt personally take that risk.

VG

 

[DabSnob]

only keep the soil with bugs if you plan on battling for good. Root aphids are the biggest bitch imaginable. to put in in perspective, the grow i finished WITH root aphids i got .5 lb PER 1000w, after getting rid of them i went right back to 1.54lbs PER 1000w.

Stop being paranoid, NO nursery or hydroponic shop is "tracking" you. nor do they give a shit about what you buying. toss the infested soil ( FAR ) from your house and start a fresh batch OR spend hundreds of dollars fighting them like i did.

"my war with the Root aphid" is my thread on my RA battle. if you are interested in seeing all the work it takes to wipe them out check it out. what DID work for me though was cycling different products in 3 day intervals, for 7 treatments. Botanigard ES, spectracide triazicide, bayer advance, bifenthrin blaster, azamax, Acephate, and SNS-203 are ALL the products i used for drenches and i used Attain and pyrethrum bombs from whitemire directly after drenches to kill any that run/fly out of the pots. costs me about $400 total.

 

[Granger2]

If you shop, Botanigard ES and Mycotrol O are about the same price per qt. I'm using Met52 now, so I haven't reordered. If I were to, I would get the Mycotrol because I prefer dealing with fungi in liq. form. No dust/spores to breathe like with Botanigard 22WP. Good luck. -granger

 

[EclipseFour20]

How 'bout a link granger? In my research, Mycotrol O has ALWAYS been sold at a premium--sometimes nearly twice the price as Botanigard. It would be a good service to identify who sells both at the same price.

BTW...in my experiences with using Botanigard--yes I did find it effective, but not 100%. As it has been noted by others, repeated applications is required--sometimes as many as 1-2 a week. I have no experience with Mycotrol O...just know that it is "processed differently" so it can be sold as "organic".

Cheers!

 

[Granger2]

Eclipse,
I said if you shop, and "about" the same price. I didn't say same price at the same place. I haven't found a place that does, but I haven't spent a lot of time searching.

http://www.groworganic.com/mycotrol-o-quart.html
http://www.amazon.com/BotaniGard-ES...TF8&qid=1376161920&sr=8-5&keywords=botanigard

Same application rates
http://www.bioworksinc.com/products/shared/rates-for-small-volumes-botanigard.pdf

 

[EclipseFour20]

Excellent! Granger...every source I found had pints priced at $80--never a quart.

I know its not organic--but acephate (Orthene...$20 for 1/2 pound and application rates are 2.5-5ml per gallon), has a soil half-life of 5-6 days and is actually beneficial for the soil's microbial population. 100% effective in eradicating RAs for me and others.

On option to consider--if one wants to dance on the darkside "1 time" (to eradicate RAs) and then return to "organic". I know several So Cali "organic" growers did exactly that...and never looked back.

Cheers!

Edit: Ooops, that's 3/4 pound of Orthene for $20, my bad. BTW 2.3 grams Orthene + 2.5ml of Riptide per gallon of water is effective for rootball dunks, so don't need much. (1gr = 1ml for the Orthene on my shelf).

 

[EveryOneSmokes]

I know you said u didn't want to use chems, but merit 75 is the way to go, once and done..
Don't mess with that water down imd in Bayer tree and shrub, it has a slow release formula which will stay in your soil/tomatoes for days definitely not something you want to be using cuz it cripples growth..

Merit 75 one application at .5g/gal and say good bye to those little bastards, you will thank me later.. Unless you have the time to bake it all.. Best of luck..

 

[StayBlazinDawg]

Green lace wings worked on aphids of some flower shrubs outside at my house, couldn't get them to lay eggs on the leaves but they killed aphids and stack dead bodies on their back like armour friggin rad.

 

[DabSnob]

Excellent! Granger...every source I found had pints priced at $80--never a quart.

I know its not organic--but acephate (Orthene...$20 for 1/2 pound and application rates are 2.5-5ml per gallon), has a soil half-life of 5-6 days and was actually beneficial for the soil's microbial population. 100% effective in eradicating RAs for me and others.

On option to consider--if one wants to dance on the darkside "1 time" (to eradicate RAs) and then return to "organic". I know several So Cali "organic" growers did exactly that...and never looked back.

Cheers!

at my local hydro shop they sell Botanigard ES for $80qt. and Mycotrol o for $120qt... was told neither was more effective then the other as the active ingredient is exactly the same. im sure the mycotrol is for the organic purist more then anything.

Your technique with orthene and riptide was going to be my final shibang. i didnt run across your thread till i had already bought all the other chemicals. luckily i never had to resort to it, BUT if i do run into them again in the future i will try it first. read too many positive outcomes after only one treatment to not give it a shot.

 

[Midnight Tokar]

I have decided to bin the "old" soil and make all new soil. This latest grow (from seeds) was all new soil so I'm trying to figure where they came from and how to stop them this time.
I'm hoping the Neem meal, Kelp, Alfalfa, Crab meal and Diatomaceous Earth will all help to repel them.

 

[DabSnob]

I have decided to bin the "old" soil and make all new soil. This latest grow (from seeds) was all new soil so I'm trying to figure where they came from and how to stop them this time.
I'm hoping the Neem meal, Kelp, Alfalfa, Crab meal and Diatomaceous Earth will all help to repel them.

Its hard to figure out exactly where they come from, most blame the soil companies. i know for a fact Fox farms had an issue with aphids in there ocean forest mix. my hydro shop stopped carrying them for a couple months till the issue was resolved. Roots organics is known for spreading fungus gnats and have had reports of aphids too. i got mine from a dispensary...

Diatomaceous Earth (DE) is useless in wet conditions, so mixing it in the soil will do nothing. as far as the additives: neam, crab, kelp, and alfalfa meal...they wont have any effect on them either. if your looking for something to add to the soil to battle them your looking at MET-52 granular as your best option.

these fuckers make spider mites look like a blessing. do some research on them to see exactly what your dealing with, its best to know your opponent before you try treatments that wont effect them.

heres my thread on my battle, ive been RA free for almost 5 months now.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=260610