MrAwder's Basement Grow 3.0

[MrAwder]

 

[MrAwder]

So the table is a little under 3x3. It's on casters to easily move around and the PVC screen is mounted to it to make one unit. The other table still needs built. It will be a bit tricky but if I measured right I should be able to get either table completely out to work on if necessary. The res' will sit on the floor beneath them. The shelf in the last pic does not actually go there and will be removed soon as it no longer fits this space.

The door is finished - design similar to ichabods reflectix door. I went inside and closed it up to find that the reflectix is not 100% light proof. I will try to get around this by attaching in some orca over the reflectix.

More pics to come tonight most likely. Transplanting the 6 that will be flowered. 1 Midas, 1 DSD, 2 Afghani Mango and 2 Pure AK.

What is the minimum time you guys would recommened to flip lights after transplant?

Short term jobs:
- manifolds (veg and flo)
- transplant
- mount ballast

Long term:
- door
- drywall
- second table

 

[MrAwder]

Here is the general plan for ventillation. I'd like any input you guys might have on this. Not shown is that the filter is attached to the 8" fan. I should be able to run both fans at 50% and still exhaust both areas at 2x/min.


(last line cut off reads: 8"/750cfm inline fan)

Just wondering if anyone can forsee any possible complications with this setup.

The other obvious option is to run intakes from the "lung" chamber. I think that would work fine also but construction-wise this setup is easier to make happen since I can run them from the side. If I draw air in from the "lung" then the intakes need to be on the door-side of the chamber which means extra planning and construction so they do not interfere with the door.

 

[MrAwder]

More stuff

More stuff

Still not much progress on the manifolds. I bit the bullet and ordered a 700gph mag drive. I could tell just by looking at the little maxijet 295gph it was not going to cut it. I'll try and use that in the aero cloner and my old pump (blumat/elevated-res setup) for the veg table.

I tried laying out the veg manifold with the 1/2" drip tubing and raindrip push fittings I had. I did not like how it turned out at all. The tubing was curvy from being stored in a coil and it was just not working. So I put that aside and did a few other quick jobs.

Bottom shelf lights mounted. 165W (3 bulbs) of PL-L on one half and a 26W cfl on the other side that will be over the aero cloner.



Door up. Still pissed that reflectix is not 100% lightproof...
Board mounted for ballasts and one ballast up.



Break for some homebrew. Just got the mini-fridge setup and first keg carbonated. Go browns!



Bunch of rooted clones. Selections for the second table will be made. Many will be culled. Many more will be taken when the aerocloner is up as new mothers.



Lastly, some preliminary temp testing. Still running with the door up until flip, but wanted to get some initial idea of what I'm looking at. No intakes have been added yet either.



So each remote sensor is in a different spot inside the chamber. One is hanging 6" from the light, the other is at the back of the screen. About 10F delta near the light, 2F in the chamber itself. I can easily get the ambient lower if necessary, just haven't been running the AC lately. I think I'll be okay if I keep everything at least 6" off the light, hopefully more like 8".

To sum up my current questions:
- How long should I wait *minimum* after transplant to flip? Did I make a mistake in transplanting?
- Ventilation suggestions? Input?

Thanks for reading

 

[soursmoker]

Nice table bro, prob half the price it would be at a hydro store! DIY is the way to go man!


As far as transplanting, I have been told that giving them just one week to stretch their roots around will be a significant difference rather than just flipping them right away after transplant...

I'd say the more they establish roots, the better... they focusing on roots so much in flower so you want a well established root system by the time you flip...

amount of veg varies on what style you are trying to grow...

SOG, or bigger plants? IMO, veg time is determined by your space, strains and how they stretch into your space... make it work bro...

As far as ventilation, what is your question? Temps look good for no A/C running and no intakes... get some intakes in there and try to hook up A/C to a thermostat so it turns on when it reaches 86-88* or something like that...

 

[MrAwder]

My question on ventilation was basically is it a big deal to draw air from outside -> flower -> lung -> out. or will it be better to go outside -> lung -> flower -> lung -> out. should i even add intakes to the lung room at all or just pull all fresh air through flower first? or vice versa and make sure all air into flower goes through the lung first. it probably does not matter at all but sometimes others can see obvious flaws.

The plants are about just the size I want them now. I think ideal for this space is 4-6 depending on the plant structure and how much they grow into each other horizontally before topping out the screen. I'll give them another week to adjust to the new pots and start training to the screen and shaping. Should give me time to setup the drip manifold.

The Midas is huge and being Sativa dom. is probably a stretcher. Not sure about the AK but thinking the same. I'm guessing the DSD will not stretch much. The afghani mango are undersized compared to the others but that's okay for this run.

 

[DHF]

I pulled fresh air into my basement setups with active intakes on speed controllers from upper crawlspaces with pantyhose filters for many yrs , and then hepa filters toward the end of shutdown to prevent any airborn pathogens from outside bein mixed with as close to laboratory conditions as possible due to the mega humid conditions I live and grew in......that said.....

IME , it`s definitely better to pull fresh air into the lung area that get`s pumped in bloom rooms and then sucked back out to either be re-conditioned back into the lung areas , or exhausted back outside through exhaust/scrubber combo`s.....now...

I couldn`t risk potential scrubber failure and smell goin out into the neighborhood , so thoughts to ponder Bro....anyways....

Gone ta check on a pig , so.....

Good luck....DHF........

 

[bobblehead]

You need to be careful venting out your basement... Do you have gas furnace or water heater? If you create negative pressure in your house, you'll reverse the flow of the chimney and pull CO2 back in the house. You need to have a window open or something for passive intake.

I have a stove with 2 pilots burning all the time. For the longest time I was super tired all the time, and I couldn't figure out why. Well then one day my CO2 monitor arrived, and I have ambient CO2 levels around 2000ppm. With prolonged exposure this is enough to decrease the amount of oxygen in the blood, and create health problems, like lethargy. Now I keep the kitchen window open, and I'll be installing a vent in my kitchen for when I'm cooking as well as buying a new stove. You should see the CO2 levels when I'm baking... Off the charts.

Anyway all that being said... grow rooms pull air in from the lung, and exhaust out to it. The lung needs to pull air from outside, and vent outside. Control the temps in the lung, and the grow rooms will follow.

I'm still digging sealed for total environmental control. Even sealed with air exchange is better than constant air exchange imo.

 

[soursmoker]

EDIT: nevermind DHF & bobble already set you straight...

 

[Mister_D]

I'm still digging sealed for total environmental control. Even sealed with air exchange is better than constant air exchange imo.

Glad you're starting to see the light

Mr. A - for the homebrew. What is it, if you don't mind my asking?

 

[bobblehead]

Glad you're starting to see the light

Mr. A - for the homebrew. What is it, if you don't mind my asking?

Dare I say if I set my beds up with blumats, and got them dialed in perfect with my tensiometer, I could walk away from my 6.8kw room for at least a week now that I'm done with foliars... Seeing how I'm using peat and organics w/ plain water, perfect environment... following blumat recommendations of 150-180mbar moisture level has my plants looking healthy. Too wet and you see more issues.

 

[MrAwder]

IME , it`s definitely better to pull fresh air into the lung area that get`s pumped in bloom rooms and then sucked back out to either be re-conditioned back into the lung areas , or exhausted back outside through exhaust/scrubber combo`s.....now...

I thought this might be the case which is why I asked. I'm just being lazy as it easier to mount the intakes on the side than from the lung, but I guess i just gotta figure it out and deal with it.

You need to be careful venting out your basement... Do you have gas furnace or water heater? If you create negative pressure in your house, you'll reverse the flow of the chimney and pull CO2 back in the house. You need to have a window open or something for passive intake.

I have a stove with 2 pilots burning all the time. For the longest time I was super tired all the time, and I couldn't figure out why. Well then one day my CO2 monitor arrived, and I have ambient CO2 levels around 2000ppm. With prolonged exposure this is enough to decrease the amount of oxygen in the blood, and create health problems, like lethargy. Now I keep the kitchen window open, and I'll be installing a vent in my kitchen for when I'm cooking as well as buying a new stove. You should see the CO2 levels when I'm baking... Off the charts.

Anyway all that being said... grow rooms pull air in from the lung, and exhaust out to it. The lung needs to pull air from outside, and vent outside. Control the temps in the lung, and the grow rooms will follow.

I'm still digging sealed for total environmental control. Even sealed with air exchange is better than constant air exchange imo.

I'm glad you brought this up but now you got me worried I do have a gas furnace and water heater. I'm finding it hard to picture my 750cfm fan creating enough negative pressure in my house for this to occur though. Keeping a window cracked in the winter is probably an option, but in the summer with the AC running I'm not too keen on. Only one way to be sure... is there a cheap handheld CO2 meter you can buy?

Sealed would be great but it seems like overkill for my little space. Overkill is usually the name of the game for me but it is cost prohibitive as I would have to do some major renovation and add a dedicated AC to make it work out. If I ever get more space than this I will definitely be looking to upgrade to sealed and perfect environment. For now I just gotta do the best I can with what I got.

Glad you're starting to see the light

Mr. A - for the homebrew. What is it, if you don't mind my asking?

That one is an American Amber Ale. I'm still a newbie in the homebrew arena, just using extract kits. Need some more equipment to step up to partial mash or all-grain.

Thanks for the help guys. See if I can get some intakes put in tonight.

 

[Mister_D]

Dare I say if I set my beds up with blumats, and got them dialed in perfect with my tensiometer, I could walk away from my 6.8kw room for at least a week now that I'm done with foliars... Seeing how I'm using peat and organics w/ plain water, perfect environment... following blumat recommendations of 150-180mbar moisture level has my plants looking healthy. Too wet and you see more issues.

I believe we call this....... Nirvana

 

[Mr Blah]

Anyway all that being said... grow rooms pull air in from the lung, and exhaust out to it. The lung needs to pull air from outside, and vent outside. Control the temps in the lung, and the grow rooms will follow.

Best way to describe the process.
Thank you

 

[RM - aquagrower]

I prefer to avoid all of the (potential) pitfalls of exchanging outside (the house) air thru the garden, and just vent thru the (conditioned) air allready in the house. This way I don't have to worry about neg air preasure causing carbon MONOXDE poisoning. I get my "intake" air from another area of the basement, and vent into the cold air return trunk of the (house) HVAC system.

In summer the central air handles the additional heat, allbeit reluctently. In winter, the garden goes a long way toward heating the place.

 

[bobblehead]

I prefer to avoid all of the (potential) pitfalls of exchanging outside (the house) air thru the garden, and just vent thru the (conditioned) air allready in the house. This way I don't have to worry about neg air preasure causing carbon MONOXDE poisoning. I get my "intake" air from another area of the basement, and vent into the cold air return trunk of the (house) HVAC system.

In summer the central air handles the additional heat, allbeit reluctently. In winter, the garden goes a long way toward heating the place.

There's a much greater quantity of CO2 vs CO when gas is combusted. Both have negative health impacts when the concentration is too high. CO has much longer lasting health impacts. You can have low levels of CO and elevated CO2, as was my case.

 

[MrAwder]

So now that I am officially paranoid about asphyxiating in my sleep. Any recommendations on how to monitor the CO2 levels? Handheld meters look like >$150. Anything cheaper?

 

[DHF]

So now that I am officially paranoid about asphyxiating in my sleep. Any recommendations on how to monitor the CO2 levels? Handheld meters look like >$150. Anything cheaper?

Prices have gone through the roof since I bought my battery operated units back in the day that gave ambient temps and RH levels as well as CO2 ppms Mr A , but the lil plug in model @ co2meter.com , and yas don`t haveta worry bout batteries......still.....

The damn thing`s $129.....I`m sure there`s cheaper battery operated models out there , but since my old desktop died some yrs back with all my shit in favorites , all the new search engines are harder to search for different sites that show up on some browsers , but not on others......or at least that`s the way it seems with my old dinosaur laptop usin ass these days......anyways.....

Always a good thingy to monitor everything the plants need to thrive on , so put it in the budget as budget provides....

Peace....DHF...........

 

[RM - aquagrower]

There's a much greater quantity of CO2 vs CO when gas is combusted. Both have negative health impacts when the concentration is too high. CO has much longer lasting health impacts. You can have low levels of CO and elevated CO2, as was my case.

Agreed. But there is a world of difference between the 2. I'm just attampting to point this stuff out because ya hear about folks being killed by CO poisoning a couple times a year.

To be fair, it is usually caused by a bird nest in the chimney between heating seasons, but still....

Taken from here http://biology.about.com/od/molecularbiology/a/carbon_monoxide.htm

Symptoms Associated With a Given Concentration of CO Over Time



PPM CO

Time

Symptoms



35

8 hours

Maximum exposure allowed by OSHA in the workplace over an eight hour period.



200

2-3 hours

Mild headache, fatigue, nausea and dizziness.



400

1-2 hours

Serious headache-other symptoms intensify. Life threatening after 3 hours.



800

45 minutes

Dizziness, nausea and convulsions. Unconscious within 2 hours. Death within 2-3 hours.



1600

20 minutes

Headache, dizziness and nausea. Death within 1 hour.



3200

5-10 minutes

Headache, dizziness and nausea. Death within 1 hour.



6400

1-2 minutes

Headache, dizziness and nausea. Death within 25-30 minutes.



12,800

1-3 minutes

Death

There is also a chart here http://www.analox.net/carbon-dioxide-dangers.php that talks about high levels of CO2 (sorry, cant get the chart to copy/paste). It states that the (OSHA) limit for short time exposure is 15,000 ppm.

As I stated above, negative air preasure of the living space is just 1 of factors in deciding whether or not to vent to the outdoors (anywhere beyond the "thermal envelope").

Another is temps, both in the garden and in the living space.

Probably like most folks, I like to keep it comfortable in the house. For me, this means temps of 70-75 and humidity about 40%. Around here, outside temps range from 95 in the summer to below 0 in the winter.

Whole lot easier to "adjust" garden temps 5 degrees then 50.

Another thing to take into account in keeping living space comfortable, is the cost to condtion any incoming air if exhausting outside. I use a 12" vortex for exhaust. To keep the numbers round, let's say that it's pushing 1000 cfm. My entire house holds about 16,000 cubic feet. This means that ALL the air in my house would be exchanged every 16 min.

When it's 95 (with 80% RH) outside, I don't think that my HVAC system could do it. And if it could, it would never shut off.

Since this is already turning into a book of a post, I might as well bring up another factor in my decision to vent "indoors", and that has to do with stelth. Big fans are loud. It's one thing to "hide" the sound of the rushing air in the house, quite another to disguise it in the back yard. Altho I suppose ya could just blow it out behind the central AC condenser, since it ain't ever gonna shut off anyway.

But what happens when winter time gets here? When it gets cold outside, my drier (laundry) vent puts off a pretty good sized plume of steam, and that's just a 4" vent. I can't imagine what 1000 cfm of 80 degree air blowing thru a 12" hole would look like when there ain't no degrees outside.

I guess what I'm trying to say is how/where ya vent, like everything else, is a decision that every grower must make to fit his/her situation, and everybody's situation is different.

I ain't trying to ruffle any feathers, just point out some of the factors that went into my decision making process when setting up my rooms.

Good luck, and stay safe!

 

[SecondAttempt]

I'm in a basement I exhaust into a relatively unused living room just above and pull intake from the rest of the house. I'm only burning 1400 watts at a time, the central air has no issue. I agree 100% with the stealth of it, I tried blowing out the dryer vent way back when and it's just too conspicuous.