can anyone tell me whats wrong with this plant?

[oscarthegrouch]

can anyone tell me whats wrong with this plant? I have 2 plants like this out of 15 in the room. I just started noticing this 2 days ago but its quickly getting worse. The plants are all grown in promix hp, in 3 gallon pots, and fed lucas formula @ ph 6.0 all the other plants look fine.




https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=47916


https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=47916

 

[MynameStitch]

ok I have a lot of questions, can you please fill out below so we can help you better?

couple things, one how big are those plants, first those plants are looking rootbound. Unless your using some product that you spray around the pots that trim the roots inside the pot.....
another thing, just by looking at it without the info given I can only go by the plant. First off if it is rootbound, you wil have any issues, where you got to water a lot more often, one plant looks droopy like it's underwatered, one in the background... are these all the same strain? the veins are being affected the most on that leaf..... do you test the pH after you water or before you water the plants?
looks like a mixture of unblanced pH and or too much nutes..... rootbound will cause problems too, so before I know anymore information I can only go on that......


SOIL:


How long has this problem been going on?
What STRAIN are you growing?
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
What is the age of your plants?
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?
Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before?
How Tall are the plants?
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
What brand Nutrient's are you using?
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
How often are you feeding?
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS?
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
How often are you watering?
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
What size bulb are you using?
How old is your bulbs?
What is the distance to the canopy?
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
What is the canopy temperature?
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen)
If using RO,Distilled,mineral water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS without any additives?(Only if you have a tds pen)
Are you using water from a water softener?
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
Are plant's infected with pest's?

 

[oscarthegrouch]

How long has this problem been going on?
about 3 days

What STRAIN are you growing?
juicy fruit x nl x skunk are the ones looking crispy, I'm also growing blueberry skunk (the droopy ones), and blueberry

What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
seed

What is the age of your plants?
6 weeks

How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?
transplanted to 3 gal pots about 7 days ago, they have been in promix hp the whole grow

Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before?
promix hp

How Tall are the plants?
between 2 and 2.5 feet

What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
veg, today is the first day of 12/12

What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
15 plants in 3 gallon pots

What brand Nutrient's are you using?
lucas formula

How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water?
8ml micro 16ml bloom

How often are you feeding?
I feed twice then water once. Only when the pots feel light, seems to be about every 3 days.

What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
ec 1.8

What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
6.0

How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS?
every time

What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
drops with color chart

How often are you watering?
every third time

When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
last feeding was about a week ago, I flushed the plants 2 days ago hoping it would help but the appear the same.

What size bulb are you using?
1000w gavita pro

How old is your bulbs?
2 weeks

What is the distance to the canopy?
80cm

What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
40%

What is the canopy temperature?
80F

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
80F-72F

What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
420cfm

Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
runs 24 hr a day

Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
yes

Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
no, it dries out between waterings

Is your water HARD or SOFT?
hard

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
tap

If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen)
.2ec

Are you using water from a water softener?
no

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
no

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
Are plant's infected with pest's?
no

 

[oscarthegrouch]

They all got real droopy after the flush, but today they have perked up. I'll get some better pics tonight. what size pots would you recommend? I have some huge ones kicking around, but was hoping the 3 gal would be fine.

 

[frankenstein2]

From my experience they look like they are getting too much water, and the water has too much food in it. Back off on both is what I did when shit starts to look like that for me. they are definetly root bound too, I would pot up also.

 

[oscarthegrouch]

ok, so I just repotted all the plants except the blueberry's into 5 gallon pots. They where extremely root bound. The blueberry's roots haven't come anywhere close to filling out the pots they are in and the mix is still soaked, so I left them in the 3 gallon pots. They've seemed to grow at about half the pace of the other plants and look fragile, I'm tempted to just throw them away and start another strain. I guess once the everything dries out from the flush I should lower the strength of the nutes? does an ec of 1.2 sound ok? and then maybe feed every other watering?
Thanks again

 

[oscarthegrouch]

turns out I was wrong. I repotted into 7 gallon pots. The plants actually look worse today. The guy at the grow shop recommended giving them calmag. Do you think lowering the nutrients to 1.2ec and adding calmag sounds like a solution? I assumed if the tips where not burning the ec was ok? if my ph is 6.0 when I feed and the run off is 6.0 it shouldn't be a ph problem right? sorry I'm new to this and a bit confused.

 

[RubeGoldberg]

6.0 is low enough in ProMix that you're gonna have some nutrients not being uptaken.

I'll bet my left nut that your runoff pH is will come out in the low 5's

feed with straight water until your pH rises to above 6, and start pH'ing feedings and waterings a little higher like 6.3-6.5



What happens when you feed a saltier nute like GH flora series in soil at 6.0 pH is you'll have some nutrients that aren't gonna be up-taken. These nutes remain behind as salts which drop the pH and throw your plant out of range.
Then when new nutes go in, they interact with the low pH of the salt buildup, causing the buildup to snowball on itself...

Super common issue when using synthetic nutes in pro-mix/sunshine etc..

fix it with a water flush, and in the future measure your runoff pH periodically to watch for it creeping lower, this will tell you when to give it a watering and avoid the issues you're seeing now

 

[RubeGoldberg]

oh also, lucas formula sucks for magnesium sometimes, adding a cal/mg product wont hurt (along with my advice in the post above)

 

[oscarthegrouch]

ok tonight I will give them a feeding with calmag and ph to 6.5 Is an ec of 1.8 considered high? tonight I'll lower it to 1.2, but once they recover should I slowly raise it until the tips burn then back it of a bit?

 

[RubeGoldberg]

ok tonight I will give them a feeding with calmag and ph to 6.5 Is an ec of 1.8 considered high? tonight I'll lower it to 1.2, but once they recover should I slowly raise it until the tips burn then back it of a bit?

1.8 isn't really too bad for their size, check the runoff pH though before any new food though, because unless the runoff starts coming out above 6.0, the new nutes will still contribute to that snow-ball effect.


you can spray with the calmg at an ec of around 0.2 - 0.3 while the lights are out in the meantime and it'll get things moving around in the plant while you wait for your roots to start uptaking properly again.

 

[oscarthegrouch]

I just realized this problem started around the time I began using water from the kitchen sink. The kitchen water goes through one of those under sink carbon filters for chlorine and taste. Is it possible that its stripping the water of something important?

 

[RubeGoldberg]

I just realized this problem started around the time I began using water from the kitchen sink. The kitchen water goes through one of those under sink carbon filters for chlorine and taste. Is it possible that its stripping the water of something important?

naw, you're fine, its a buildup of salts for sure.

the jokers on these forums love trying to guess "whats going missing" but they're usually closet growers who smoke way too much and think the leaf chart from their grow bible will solve all their problems.


even with reverse osmosis water nothing is going missing, it just becomes unstable due to lack of a buffer.

The images below sorta explain how when the pH is going off, certain nutes will stop being up-taken by the plant, so you'll end up with multiple deficiency signs.
Since most smaller growers who occupy forums are too lazy to read pH, they end up getting high and letting their mind wander around thinking "deficiencies" need to be fixed. (I realize that hasn't happened in this thread, i think i just spend too much time on reddit and rollitup.org)

 

[oscarthegrouch]

I gave the plants plain water as you said, The ph of the run off was between 6.0 and 6.5 on all the plants. I guess once they dry out I'll resume feeding them and hope for the best. Thanks again!

 

[RubeGoldberg]

the calmg will solve it then

 

[oscarthegrouch]

Thanks for the advice! The plants are starting to look a bit better already. I did the foliar calmag like you said, next feeding I'll throw in some calmag too. You where right about the ph too. The best looking plants had a run off ph of around 6.5. and the worst where around 5.8-6.0 It's hard to be accurate to the decimal place using drops and a color chart though. I think maybe part of the problem is that the promix I'm using has sat in the garage for about 4 years and before that it was stored outdoors at the place I bought it, perhaps the lime in its gotten used up. Next time I'll buy fresh, and not be so cheap.

Thanks again

 

[bluenorth]

If I were you right now I'd be feeding 4 micro and 6 bloom. Feed with every water and get good run off, a couple liters. In a five gallon it takes about 7 or 8 liters or 2 gallons to get a couple quarts of run off. After about 3 feedings bump it up to 4 micro and 8 bloom and take it till finished. A ph of 6 give or take is fine, usually later on I bump it up a bit. I haven't lost a leaf since I followed this advice.

 

[bluenorth]

Just noticed you use the drops, if it's showing pee yellow your good to go.