help a vert-noob, how to safely hang my barebulb and other ?'s

[soursmoker]

lol yeah I realized shortly afterwards you guys would be asking height, it is the vert forum after all...

my bad bobble, I know all the cubic feet shit and everything...

am i wrong in thinking that by putting on the scrubber it will restrict the fan a somewhat considerable amount which would cause CFM's to drop?

im figuring atleast 25% probably, so we are down to 300+ CFM's now.

the cab real dimensions are 2.125x2.375x4 so that is 20 cft. speed controller will hopefully bring it down to around 250 CFM's. We are still at 12.5 a minute, which is a lot. But recently Mister_D said somewhere around here that there is no such thing as too much ventilation unless it is actually physically harming them, like ripping the branches off and shit... idk

It seems in best interest to get a bigger cab so what do you think is a good size? I can't pull off a 4x4, that is big... I can't do that. I really think the 32"x32"x60" would be perfect but it is not much bigger than my current setup which made me think to just try it out...

I am going to give it a go in the current setup but if temps or anything doesn't seem right I won't go forward until I have the proper cab to put it in...

 

[Born Loser]

Once you drop a bulb in the center, and give a few inches away from that for clearance for the plants, there's not much room left in a 2x2.
Id get the larger one. Hell, I'd get some 2x2 wood and frame the space you have and cover with orca or whatever. Hell, foil backed foam, 10/sheet. Cab for 30 bucks..

 

[bobblehead]

Google transpiration... You're gonna burn your plants up.

Make the room bigger, or the fan smaller. Or just constantly deal with a less than perfect environment. W/e. It's your call.

 

[soursmoker]

That's why I am going to give it a try and if it doesn't work, I'll get a bigger area... what do you think is the right size area? you say 4x4 but I can't pull that off so basically what is the smallest I can go where it will still be in the range of perfect environment. or is 4x4 it?

I think I can go smaller dude...
I use bing and nothing informative came up from my search... what was your point? I know what transpiration is... how are they going to burn? I don't get it. The only problem I see is little room for plants... If I keep them 6-8" away from the bulb and there is ATLEAST 2x air exchange per minute what is the problem? I can't grow big plants, I know.

I thought it was Overkill is Underrated? Why all of a sudden is it a bad thing to have a big fan? This is what everyone has been telling me. go bigger you can always dial it down. so wtf?!

 

[bobblehead]

Transpiration is the process of water movement through a plant and its evaporation from aerial parts especially from leaves but also from stems and flowers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transpiration

Vapour Pressure Deficit, or VPD, is the difference (deficit) between the amount of moisture in the air and how much moisture the air can hold when it is saturated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_pressure_deficit

Now put the 2 together... and if you can't dial your humidity because you're exchanging your air 100x a minute, your plants will transpire uncontrollably which will lead to energy lost to transpiration, as well as nutrient imbalances.

I wouldn't be making an issue out of this if there wasn't one. I would return the fan and get a small one... Bigger equipment is better if you can control it. Would you put a 3 ton a/c on your 2x2x4 cab? No, because the a/c is bigger than your cab.

Am I making sense yet?

 

[soursmoker]

Transpiration is the process of water movement through a plant and its evaporation from aerial parts especially from leaves but also from stems and flowers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transpiration

Vapour Pressure Deficit, or VPD, is the difference (deficit) between the amount of moisture in the air and how much moisture the air can hold when it is saturated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_pressure_deficit

Now put the 2 together... and if you can't dial your humidity because you're exchanging your air 100x a minute, your plants will transpire uncontrollably which will lead to energy lost to transpiration, as well as nutrient imbalances.

I wouldn't be making an issue out of this if there wasn't one. I would return the fan and get a small one... Bigger equipment is better if you can control it. Would you put a 3 ton a/c on your 2x2x4 cab? No, because the a/c is bigger than your cab.

Am I making sense yet?

Lol as far the 3 ton A/C yes I totally understand. 100x a minute, idk about that. The ABSOLUTE most I see myself exhanging air per minute is somewhere around 15x. Do you still think this is a considerable problem? I know you were exagerrating with the 100x but I am being serious. 15x per minute is the ABSOLUTE most it will be exchanged. And I believe I can get it down to around 10x per minute. To be honest, I have never had humidity complete dialed but I would rather have humidity lacking than too much... am i right? I can handle adding humidity the first few weeks...

I really am not trying to argue with you man, I just can't tell if you are exagerrating to make a point or if you know it's only 10-15x per minute.

Am I making sense yet? If not i'll just shut up and you can tell me what is the ABSOLUTE most I can exchange the air per minute

Another thing, is this the dumbest idea ever or ?

Normally you double intake size compared to exhaust... if i limited intake, I would in turn be limiting air exchange's per minute correct?

 

[bobblehead]

There was a dude named Laylow exchanging his air 4x a minute... and he was running a real big grow...

I have no personal gain from giving you this advice dude... think about it... a 6" fan covers 1/4 the diameter of your cab. I used a 6" fan for a 6x6 room.

If you're not going to build the bigger room, return the fan and scrubber and get the right size. I don't think anybody here is going to come along and tell you otherwise.

Do you even have plants? Like what's the rush? Do you wanna do this right, or do you want it to be all fucked up so you have to do it over later?

 

[soursmoker]

Honestly I was basing most of my arguement off of this quote...

Unless your plants are being physically hurt by the amount of air rushing past them, there is no such thing as too much exhaust.

I guess you are saying 10x is literally going to kill my plants? I am just confused... the 100x statement really was just exagerrating? I am not trying to be a smartass, I appreciate you giving me advice even though you don't have to.

Yes I have plants, that is why I already have a cab... what do you mean?

Last time I checked I thought diamter had to do with circles? not trying to be an asshole but maybe you need to step off the high horse just for a second and think bout it. Have YOU seen negative effects from exchanging air 10x per minute?

I appreciate it, but it seems like you are not listening to anything I am saying. You keep repeating the same thing and not answering my actual questions...

 

[bobblehead]

If you can't understand the physical damage excessive transpiration will cause, aka wind burn, then its time for me to bow out. I don't know how else to explain to you the problems you're going to have, and so I'll just let you experience them.

100x a minute was an exaggeration. 10-15x a minute is a lot more air exchange than I've ever heard of. Good luck with that.

Sometimes putting your own twist on shit just doesn't work... You should have picked that up from the thread.

 

[soursmoker]

alright, I guess I should have gotten by the one post that 5x is what we were shooting for at the most... I didn't think 10x would be that serious but I guess so... time to re think this one. could probably just expand my current cab.

 

[bobblehead]

Atmospheric factors affecting transpiration

The amount of water that plants transpire varies greatly geographically and over time. There are a number of factors that determine transpiration rates:

Temperature:Transpiration rates go up as the temperature goes up, especially during the growing season, when the air is warmer.
Relative humidity: As the relative humidity of the air surrounding the plant rises the transpiration rate falls. It is easier for water to evaporate into dryer air than into more saturated air.
Wind and air movement: Increased movement of the air around a plant will result in a higher transpiration rate.
Soil-moisture availability: When moisture is lacking, plants can begin to senesce (premature ageing, which can result in leaf loss) and transpire less water.
Type of plant: Plants transpire water at different rates. Some plants which grow in arid regions, such as cacti and succulents, conserve precious water by transpiring less water than other plants.

http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/watercyclesummary.html

 

[soursmoker]

what is a reasonable amount of CFM's to expect my fan to pull after the static pressure from my carbon filter and all the bends and lengths of ducting? I know there will be a considerable amount lost. Any ideas how to figure this out?

EDIT: I understand the transpiration thing now... it will be way too much unless I planned on running a humidifier full time or something...

 

[soursmoker]

Ok. I am thinking of either buying a 150w Ballast to power my 150w Bulb that I bought that doesn't fit into my old fixture, Or I could buy a 4" fan as suggested and run the 400w. But I still tend to think the 400w will be pushing the limits in my space which makes me lean towards just buying the 150w ballast. That way I won't have potential crop failure unless my bulb blows out on me again...

OR I was thinking, would hooking up the 6" exhaust to both my Flower AND Veg room help with the air exchanges per minute? The flower room is somehwere around 20 cft, and veg is somewhere around 16 cft. Or is it just smarter to get the ballast?

 

[Born Loser]

A vert 150 can yield a good crop. I've seen folks pull a qp.
That's 1600 bucks around here. ;-)

 

[soursmoker]

Haha not so worried about in terms of money, just the best smoke possible. I know I can get way more from a 400w but if it is harsh and smokes poorly due to shitty environmental control I would rather have less of the high quality. Either way a qp would be awesome! I think I am just going to order the ballast. I do not regret buying any of the big equipment though because now I have it for when I am in a position to upgrade and I won't have to spend any money on equipment. It will just be sitting waiting to be setup...

 

[pisspotgrower]

Haha not so worried about in terms of money, just the best smoke possible. I know I can get way more from a 400w but if it is harsh and smokes poorly due to shitty environmental control I would rather have less of the high quality. Either way a qp would be awesome! I think I am just going to order the ballast. I do not regret buying any of the big equipment though because now I have it for when I am in a position to upgrade and I won't have to spend any money on equipment. It will just be sitting waiting to be setup...

Been watchng a few threads mate its really impressive the amount of thought and research you have put into your up coming grow

BUt i reckon its time to get it off the ground mate.....its just as easy to learn as ya go, especially now ya not talking big rooms but single 1000 crancked down to 400.......y waste nother 3 months asking how to hang stuff.....as ya build it u will find a way

cant wait to see it in action...want to be a killer i reckon with all these advanced growers putting ya right

 

[pisspotgrower]

if ya gona be happy with a QP.....400 wats in a 1 by 1meter tent with a 150mm centifugal fan and carbon filter will do that.....done n dusted

 

[soursmoker]

Been watchng a few threads mate its really impressive the amount of thought and research you have put into your up coming grow

BUt i reckon its time to get it off the ground mate.....its just as easy to learn as ya go, especially now ya not talking big rooms but single 1000 crancked down to 400.......y waste nother 3 months asking how to hang stuff.....as ya build it u will find a way

cant wait to see it in action...want to be a killer i reckon with all these advanced growers putting ya right

thanks bro I have grown before, not my first rodeo. just first time in the big boy cages...

I've done multiple CFL and 150w grows. What is considered micro by most around here. You are right though I am slacking big time. It's because I realize no matter how much I research I always overlook something and then have to buy something else to make it all work...

For Example, I bought all this new equipment but don't have an adequate cab to put it all in. So now instead of using the new equipment I have to buy ANOTHER ballast so i can go back to 150w.

Most of this aggravation was caused by reading people constantly say, get 6" fan instead of a 4" so you have room to upgrade. Great idea if your space is big enough. Always think about YOUR OWN situation before taking some strangers advice. Most of the time these guys know what they are talking about though.

 

[pisspotgrower]

I hear ya mate the step can and will be daunting for awhile....but soon as ya setup i promise yall find ya feet quickly.

And to tell ya the truth in this game ya always gona be buying new gear, just as a builder or such as to keep buying / repairing tools......no getting around it.

Again...best of luck buddy

 

[soursmoker]

if ya gona be happy with a QP.....400 wats in a 1 by 1meter tent with a 150mm centifugal fan and carbon filter will do that.....done n dusted

this is the biggest problem... I don't even have a full 1 x 1 meter.

I have 2ft x 2ft. way too tight for a 400w.

I hear ya mate the step can and will be daunting for awhile....but soon as ya setup i promise yall find ya feet quickly.

And to tell ya the truth in this game ya always gona be buying new gear, just as a builder or such as to keep buying / repairing tools......no getting around it.

Again...best of luck buddy

yes I know I will always be buying, just sucks to look at it and now the amount you could be growing... but its all good cuz like I said I will have it waiting for when the time is right.

for now I'll be going with the 150w Vert probably...