New soil mix - need some input.

[OZZ_]

Hey everyone.

Yesterday I started making up a new batch of soil and wanted to do it differently this time around. Previously I had been relying on a heavy peat moss component but the more I use it I really just dont like it. It seems like it gets rock hard once it dries out and ends up hydrophobic as people say, becoming difficult to re-wet and extremely difficult for the roots to grow in. Ill admit, I didnt use enough compost to offset it and Im sure thats one of the problems with it.

Regardless, I have a lot of materials on hand so wanted to make a new mix with coco coir and peat instead of just peat. I think I may have gotten carried away a bit with the compost and organic additions and need everyones advice.

So far it consists of:

5 gallons coco coir (wet and expanded)
5 gallons recycled soil (peat moss based)
5 gallons cheap bagged compost (I had it laying there so wanted to use it, I think its kellogs brand you get at home depot-has some bark fines in it)
5 gallons organic materials (approx 2 gallons cheap bagged composted steer manure from home depot, 1 gallon old rabbit poo, 1 gallon used coffee grounds, and 1 gallon fresh worm castings from my worm bin)

I have NOT added my areation yet. I was going to add 5 gallons of perilite and 5 gallons vermiculite.

That would make it 1/3 coco/peat, 1/3 compost/organic materials, 1/3 verm/perilite

Now Im thinking that may be too much organic ingredients, and it may get be to hot. I can let it set for 8 weeks if need be though.

Can I still use it?

Other products I have on hand that I have NOT added yet are:

Azomite
Kelp meal
Crab shell meal
Alfalfa meal
Blood meal
Bone meal
Epsoma Plant tone
Gypsum
Dolomite Lime
Crushed oyster shell
Local black volcanic sands and local bright Red desert sands


I was planning on mixing 1 cup each of kelp, crab, alfalfa, and plant tone and then adding 2 cups per cubic foot to the mix as per the potting soil 101 sticky but Im not sure if the whole mix will be to hot? Also was going to add 2 cups azomite, 1 cup black local volcanic sand, 1 cup red desert sand and 10 tablespoons of lime mix (1 part dolomite lime, 1 part gypsum, 2 parts oyster shell).


What do you guys think? Will that be ok or did I make it too hot with all the manures, composts, and coffee grounds? I had them all on hand and wanted to make use of what I had available but may have went overboard with it.

If I let it cook for 8 weeks beforehand will it be ok?

 

[bigshrimp]

Without nit picking about amendments it looks like a good mix, may need some more aeration like you said but you can always add that later.

A longer cook time always helps...

 

[OZZ_]

Thanks for the input ..... I wasn't planning on using all those amendments but probably just add the following:
4 cups kelp, 2 cups crab, 2 cups alfalfa, 2 cups plant tone for ferts per 4 cubic foot of soil mix.

To that ild add 8 cups azomite, 4 cups black volcanic sand and 4 cups red desert sand plus 10 tablespoons lime mix (2 parts oyster shell, 1 part gypsum, 1 part dolomite lime).

Out of curiosity... if you had to nitpick what would you recommend?

 

[OZZ_]

C-C .... I do mind... this is the biggest hijack I've seen in a while... start your own thread please and it would be great if yould delete that reply.

Bad forum etiquette bud.

With that being said.... i wish i could get my hands on locally sourced seaweed and crabshells...thats aesome! Grow on and no hard feelings.

 

[bigshrimp]

Lols hijack indeed! Well, i was gonna say drop the blood meal but you already got that. If you can find fish bone meal, instead of bone use that. That's all personal preference though.

The only serious recomendation i have is look into diversifying your aeration if possible. Sounds like a great mix already.

Have fun

 

[OZZ_]

Thanks big shrimp!

As far aeration I'll be using perilite and vermiculite... although I'm not sure how people consider verm an areator as it holds so much water. My biggest problem has been compaction with my old mix but I admit it was mostly peat and perilite with not enough compost components. This mix so far seems much better already but I won't know for sure until it in pots and goes through a few wet/dry cycles... my last mix dried hard as concrete!

I can find natural lava rock all over ....what would you suggest?

 

[The Hummus Monk]

Have you pondered dropping the peat completely? Adding coir in its place = 1/3 coir. Then you could drop the perlite/verm completely.

Peat is a pain in the ass as far as I'm concerned...I want to move towards a living coir soil instead so this thread is of huge interest!

Don't even know if you can make a living organic coir soil..?!

 

[OZZ_]

Thanks for the input Hummus Monk.

I do believe you can make a living coir mix, through my research Ive found several people doing it/experimenting with it although its not as tested as peat mixes.

I wont be buying much peat I can tell you that. However, I literally have about 200 gallons of peat based mix currently that have plants in it growing... and they arent doing to well due to the compaction issue I mentioned above. I have a 8'x16' greenhouse with a bunch of hot peppers and they really need to dry out completely between waterings to be happy. Problem is when I let that happen these peat mixes turn into concrete lol.

So Ill be mixing and ammending coir as well as verm into this mix to try to create a more fluffy and better textured soil. Thats why Im using 5 gallons fresh coir to 5 gallons old recycled soil with heavy additions of organic materials. Im not sure how you could get away with no perilite or verm just using coir though ..... I always thought coir still needs areation? Especially since Im adding in 10 gallons of compost/organic materials that are heavy and hold water well.

My old mix was probably 50% peat, 20% organic material (EWC, cheap compost, etc, etc), and 30% perilite then I added my ammendments - water it and let it dry completely and you now have concrete.

Funny enough the MJ grows ok in it, much better then the peppers...

I dont necessarily need one mix for all, and I certainly can tailor two types of soils for use with each plant but I dont think thats necessary. Once I get a good mix down I think it should work well for both ... although the MJ may need more nutrients. A high quality living soil should allow anything to grow well in it, after all thats the whole point of it... that the plants take what they need.

I have two 5 teir worm bins going and they are doing well... also I have two compost tumblers showing up tomorrow so getting high quality organic materials from here on out shouldnt be a problem. Plus, I have access to all the used coffee grounds, rabbit poo, and horse poo I could ever want to go into the tumblers.

From here on out things should get better, and I will probably take 80 gallons of my old soil and load up a tumbler with just it and a bunch of hot stuff like alfalafa and blood meal, veggie scraps and lawn clippings and turn it into compost for the new soil mixes.

 

[bigshrimp]

If you can crush it up and mix the lava rock in without too much effort defiantly get as much in there as you can. It should help with compaction long term.

Some local topsoil has helped me with texture/compaction issues, but depending on your soil type i'd watch the quantity since you are adding volcanic sands already.

I've been wondering about a no ph organic coir setup too... another thread maybe?

 

[The Hummus Monk]

I grow in pots without drainage holes. Works well with peat. When I water I flood the pot and it bubbles away...then the medium absorbs all the water gradually. I then wait until it's almost bone dry again before flooding (I.e. the concrete stage).

I have seen zero ill effects of having no drainage holes.

Blynx grows like this too and as far as I'm concerned he's top 5 in icmag.

Reading your post I agree that you will need perlite/verm. Mandala Mike would disagree though!

 

[The Hummus Monk]

No PH organic coir is for sure a goal..!

 

[OZZ_]

Feel free to discuss it here I dont mind relevant information of course.

There's several reporting good results from swapping coir for peat in any of the super soil recipes... that's why I'm going with coir plus it doesn't seem to harden when dry. I think that cheap bagged compost really helped with the texture from the bark fines... not that its probably doing much from microbe standpoint but I'll water with an ACT when I add my other amendments and with the composted steer manure, rabbit poo, worm castings and coffee grounds along with a long cook time I'm hoping it turns out nice.

Plus kelp, crab, alfalfa, bone, plant tone and rock dusts how could it not?

Here's hoping it goes well lol. Cheers!

 

[Carbon.Chains]

C-C .... I do mind... this is the biggest hijack I've seen in a while... start your own thread please and it would be great if yould delete that reply.

Bad forum etiquette bud.

With that being said.... i wish i could get my hands on locally sourced seaweed and crabshells...thats aesome! Grow on and no hard feelings.

Ah sorry about that, I wanted to PM you first to ask, as I am still new to all this forum stuff but couldn't... Should've thought more before posting. Asked for my post to be deleted.
Anyway, thanks and goodluck for your grow
sorry once again,
C-C

 

[OZZ_]

Ah sorry about that, I wanted to PM you first to ask, as I am still new to all this forum stuff but couldn't... Should've thought more before posting. Asked for my post to be deleted.
Anyway, thanks and goodluck for your grow
sorry once again,
C-C

No problem... you can just edit the post. No biggie though I'm sure we've all done it when new. Its generally advised to create your own thread so you don't divert attention from the OP s questions.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm not much for vermiculite, but the chunky perlite is good stuff for opening up soil. I'd use the azomite, for sure, because it covers weird micronutrient deficiencies. Also mycorrhiza, take your pick. The other stuff I'd use sparingly, if at all, moisten it up, then put it out in the sun in a black plastic trashcan to cook & mellow out for a month or more. Test it on some lesser species of seeds. If it's too hot, cut it with Light Warrior, which has great texture but little nutrient value.

I've only recently come back to the sacred herb, but we've been avid gardeners indoors & out for decades. It's actually a lot easier to grow than a lot of other stuff.

 

[OZZ_]

Well ... I just mixed it all up again and I gotta say Im really pleased with the texture, feel, smell, and look of it. Im guessing this is going to be my best grow yet. Also, the peppers should like it quite a bit too if it doesnt compact down the road... it sure doesnt seem like it will though.

The final lineup goes like this:

5 gallons coco coir (wet and expanded)
5 gallons old recycled soil (peat moss based)
5 gallons cheap bagged compost (Kellogs/Home depot - has bark fines)
5 gallons organic materials (1 gallon composted steer manure, 1 gallon old rabbit poo, 1 gallon used coffee grounds, 2 gallons fresh EWC from my worm bins)
5 gallons perilite
5 gallons vermiculite

Comes out to right at 4 cubic foot of base soil mix.

Then I mixed 4 cups Kelp, 2 cups cottonseed meal, 2 cups alfalfa, 2 cups crab shell meal, 2 cups plant tone, and 1 cup bone meal in a seperate container and applied 10 full cups of this mixture to the base soil mix (comes out to 2.5 cups per cubic foot of base soil).

Then I added 4 cups azomite and 8 tablespoons of lime mix (2 parts oyster shell, 1 part gypsum, 1 part dolomite lime).

I ran out of my local volcanic and desert sands so I didnt use any this go around. Ill have to go hike and get a few more 5 gallon buckets full before long.

Mixed it all up, watered with an ACT and and set it off to the side to sit for 8 more weeks while I get my OG Chem clones, Chocolate bhut jolokia, and fatalli peppers up and running

ITS ON