awesome man, can't wait to see your detailed grow report. your grow thread on GDP Genetics was on point! Very Detailed! I hope you find the stankiest Chem pheno there is to be found!
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Dawg Duel - 4 Chem Lines Fight It Out
- Thread starter aerokrafter
- Start date
oldergrower
Member
AK, isn't dawg fighting illegal where your at??? Hahaha great threat
Hey aerokrafter, pulling up a seat to this. Will be neat to see these chem lines going head to head. Take care 1
Swampwater
Member
Setting up my tent in the backyard, i'm camping out for this one 
D
DJXXPLATINUM
MY CHEM D IBL WAS LEGENDARY....GUESS ITS THE LUCK OF THE DRAW....YOU ARE GONNA HAVE SOME CHEMDOG DANKNESS..DJ
The Grass is Still Growin!
Everyone is still alive and doing well. These are just about ready to go to the sexing table for the lady hunt. These plants have to stay in these beer cups for up to 9 months. To keep them as happy as possible, their only food is organic teas.
Speaking of teas, I intend to roll out all my new syntho/biotic aeroponic recipes in this thread.
So I expect to go into a little more detail on methodology in this thread. I believe this brings aero to another level of performance, and I'm quite excited to present the results of a years' work to you in this thread.
I may crash and burn, such things are always possible when playing on the edge. But that is part of what makes it exciting for you and me to do these grows together in real time.
As always, your comments and questions are welcome.
-AK
Everyone is still alive and doing well. These are just about ready to go to the sexing table for the lady hunt. These plants have to stay in these beer cups for up to 9 months. To keep them as happy as possible, their only food is organic teas.
Speaking of teas, I intend to roll out all my new syntho/biotic aeroponic recipes in this thread.
So I expect to go into a little more detail on methodology in this thread. I believe this brings aero to another level of performance, and I'm quite excited to present the results of a years' work to you in this thread.
I may crash and burn, such things are always possible when playing on the edge. But that is part of what makes it exciting for you and me to do these grows together in real time.
As always, your comments and questions are welcome.
-AK
W
willyweed
looking forward to seeing this one until the end.i do love side by side grows for the comparison .personally i run strains until i get the best out of them(or what i consider is the best) good luck willyweed
I'm really interested in watching you succeed! Organic aeroponic growing is as good as it gets!
I will be doing this as well in my units.
Thanks so much!
R.Fortune
Off With Their Heads!
Since the last update, sexing by primordia has been completed. These plants were pretty easy compared to many other strains. None the less, I’ll keep a sharp eye on these, every one in while a boy slips through.
We ended up with 26 females in total. All plants are assigned their ID number at this point. I number them from tallest to shortest. This helps later when planning the bloom canopy - keeping the tallest on the edge. Course stretch is not ALWAYS predictable from vigor, but it is a useful rule of thumb.
The Breakdown:
ISP - 6
GBS - 9
CVS - 5
RES - 6
In the Cloner
All of the plants are quite similar in appearance and height. Some are funkier smelling, or have more purple in the stem, but still are all obviously related.
All 26 plants were pruned and cut in half. These archive plants will wait in the mom room, while the clones get rooted, pruned and vegged before heading off to the bloom room. The tops are all in the cloner, ready to begin their adventure.
Cloning young seedling tops is difficult. The hormones are just all wrong for making roots. It takes patience and the right nute recipe to pull this off. Some strains are really picky about this, but almost all will eventually bend to your will.
Of the 26, I expect to send the best 18 to the bloom room. I may jam 24 if there are that many healthy clones to send. Whoever doesn’t make it to the first round will get tossed in with other runs in the future.
Since these are seedling tops, I will start the cloner in sterile mode. We will wait to the end before adding biotics. The reason is that early rooters will take advantage of the tea and completely dominate everyone else. The light synthetic nutes gives everyone extra time to root before the competition begins. When running monocrops, aerotea is introduced much earlier.
For this run of clones, I pulled out the big ole EZ cloner. With RO water up to the bottom of the spray manifold, I add the following:
30 ml Dutch Master Grow A
30 ml Dutch Master Grow B
30 ml Dutch Master Potash +
This light feeding regimen keeps the clippings green, while not heavy enough to inhibit root growth. I normally do not use root stims. The res is never topped off. When the solution level goes down to the top of the pump, I dump and start fresh.
I expect the clippings to take 4 - 14 days to root. I plan on their first prune and topping to happen around day 21. I’ll be sure to update when we get to that stage.
As always, your comments and questions are welcome.
-AK
Since the last update, sexing by primordia has been completed. These plants were pretty easy compared to many other strains. None the less, I’ll keep a sharp eye on these, every one in while a boy slips through.
We ended up with 26 females in total. All plants are assigned their ID number at this point. I number them from tallest to shortest. This helps later when planning the bloom canopy - keeping the tallest on the edge. Course stretch is not ALWAYS predictable from vigor, but it is a useful rule of thumb.
The Breakdown:
ISP - 6
GBS - 9
CVS - 5
RES - 6
In the Cloner
All of the plants are quite similar in appearance and height. Some are funkier smelling, or have more purple in the stem, but still are all obviously related.
All 26 plants were pruned and cut in half. These archive plants will wait in the mom room, while the clones get rooted, pruned and vegged before heading off to the bloom room. The tops are all in the cloner, ready to begin their adventure.
Cloning young seedling tops is difficult. The hormones are just all wrong for making roots. It takes patience and the right nute recipe to pull this off. Some strains are really picky about this, but almost all will eventually bend to your will.
Of the 26, I expect to send the best 18 to the bloom room. I may jam 24 if there are that many healthy clones to send. Whoever doesn’t make it to the first round will get tossed in with other runs in the future.
Since these are seedling tops, I will start the cloner in sterile mode. We will wait to the end before adding biotics. The reason is that early rooters will take advantage of the tea and completely dominate everyone else. The light synthetic nutes gives everyone extra time to root before the competition begins. When running monocrops, aerotea is introduced much earlier.
For this run of clones, I pulled out the big ole EZ cloner. With RO water up to the bottom of the spray manifold, I add the following:
30 ml Dutch Master Grow A
30 ml Dutch Master Grow B
30 ml Dutch Master Potash +
This light feeding regimen keeps the clippings green, while not heavy enough to inhibit root growth. I normally do not use root stims. The res is never topped off. When the solution level goes down to the top of the pump, I dump and start fresh.
I expect the clippings to take 4 - 14 days to root. I plan on their first prune and topping to happen around day 21. I’ll be sure to update when we get to that stage.
As always, your comments and questions are welcome.
-AK
Off with Their Heads - Part Deux!
So here we are 3 weeks after clipping the tops off the original plants. All 26 have developed substantial roots. The Rez version towers above all the others. They will definitely be on the edge of the canopy in bloom.
The res is still sterile. They continue with the same diet as before. I’m waiting till the last couple days before adding biotics.
All the clones are getting a radical top. They end up with 2 shoots and 2 fan leaves. It took me a while to get used to butchering perfectly good clones. But the final results let me do it with much less trepidation now.
And here is the cloner full of beheaded beauties. I have moved the taller plants to the back.
I’ll be back with the next update in less than 2 weeks when the plants get their first taste of Aero Tea.
Won’t be too much longer till these hit the bloom room!
As always, your comments and questions are welcome.
-AK
So here we are 3 weeks after clipping the tops off the original plants. All 26 have developed substantial roots. The Rez version towers above all the others. They will definitely be on the edge of the canopy in bloom.
The res is still sterile. They continue with the same diet as before. I’m waiting till the last couple days before adding biotics.
All the clones are getting a radical top. They end up with 2 shoots and 2 fan leaves. It took me a while to get used to butchering perfectly good clones. But the final results let me do it with much less trepidation now.
And here is the cloner full of beheaded beauties. I have moved the taller plants to the back.
I’ll be back with the next update in less than 2 weeks when the plants get their first taste of Aero Tea.
Won’t be too much longer till these hit the bloom room!
As always, your comments and questions are welcome.
-AK
Swampwater
Member
This is gonna be good 
A question if I may?
When you top your clones to get 2 main shoots, I see you whack off the top and use the bottom node(s). I've always done the opposite- I cut the tipy-top off, then cut off the bottom nodes, leaving the 2 top most shoots. Seeing your style has me second guessing mine. Have you trying both ways, or done any comparisons?
(Forgive my poor, non-scientific vocabulary in my post, my sleeping aid kicked in and I'm half knocked out)
A question if I may?
When you top your clones to get 2 main shoots, I see you whack off the top and use the bottom node(s). I've always done the opposite- I cut the tipy-top off, then cut off the bottom nodes, leaving the 2 top most shoots. Seeing your style has me second guessing mine. Have you trying both ways, or done any comparisons?
(Forgive my poor, non-scientific vocabulary in my post, my sleeping aid kicked in and I'm half knocked out)
Very Nice..thanks again for sharing this with us...I like the way you are keeping it as even as possible from clone..often times fast rooters have an unfair advantage from the start.....this should finish around Christmas/new year right? I'll reserve three spots in my first 2014 aero tray for your top dawg strand..my money is on the IBL...but we shall see! Maybe some folks might be interested in a follow up Top Dawg grow along to start in Jan 2014...plenty of time to prepare for a grow along...
Will the Top Dawg please stand up!
Will the Top Dawg please stand up!
-Swampwater
I keep the bottom nodes because as you go up the plant to select nodes, they become more uneven - leading to one branch being more dominate later - leading to uneven plants in the bloom room. That 4-6 extra inches comes in handy if the plants decide to stretch harder than anticipated. Strong plants with robust roots is the main goal regardless. This is minor and I wouldn't stress much about it.
-Bigge
We are looking at a Thanksgiving finish. I'm glad you are enjoying the experiment - It's one I've been planning for a while.
Thanx everyone for your interest!
-AK
I keep the bottom nodes because as you go up the plant to select nodes, they become more uneven - leading to one branch being more dominate later - leading to uneven plants in the bloom room. That 4-6 extra inches comes in handy if the plants decide to stretch harder than anticipated. Strong plants with robust roots is the main goal regardless. This is minor and I wouldn't stress much about it.
-Bigge
We are looking at a Thanksgiving finish. I'm glad you are enjoying the experiment - It's one I've been planning for a while.
Thanx everyone for your interest!
-AK
Aero Tea
Everyone who grows all have the same goal - The very finest product possible with their current skills and technology. My journey started like most with bad soil and crude fertilizers. Sparking that first horrible joint, it was the sweetest smoke I ever had because it was mine! I was hooked, and over the years my evolution progressed to organic dirt > dirt & teas > Nutrient Film Tech > Deep Water Culture > Synthetic Aero > Syntho/Biotic Aero.
I’ll prolly never get to High Pressure Aero, but I think “splash-o-ponic” aero is maxed out with the addition of Aero Tea.
Why Teas?
They add an extra complexity and dimension to the flavor and buzz.
They boost production and growth another 5 - 15% over the already outrageous Aero growth rates.
They provide protection against many bad things including: Cyano bacteria (Brown Slime) and Pythium (Root Rot).
Mychorrizals improve root performance and strength.
The root chamber can handle higher temp peaks(85 degrees max) without flopping the plants.
Provides complex organic molecules such as Krebs Cycle components(partially digested sugars) and provides higher levels of micronutrients not available in the base synthetics.
Simplifies the nute regimen. Chlorine, H2O2, Zone, and Silica are no longer needed.
They are very cheap to produce.
Why Doesn’t Everyone Use Them?
Number one problem is clogging. In Aero, clogged lines means dead plants - IN HOURS! Teas by their nature have particulates. Colonies of critters can bloom and goop everything up. Together, you can see how this does not bode well.
They have to be brewed on a schedule. There is no “dump in” solution. This adds another circle of chores to Aero’s daily demands.
Nute regimens have to be altered. Many manufacturers (Including Dutch Master), recommend staying 100% sterile and won’t even answer questions about adding biotics.
So What’s the Solution?
AK’s Current Recipe for Aero Tea
In 5 gallons actively aerated RO water:
1 teaspoon SubCulture B
1 teaspoon SubCulture M
2 teaspoons Black Strap Molasses
2 Tablespoons Earthworm Castings
2 Tablespoons Ancient Forrest
Brew 24 -36 hours before strain and use. You MUST use the tea in this time window.
What Makes This Tea Different?
This tea is designed with very specific strategies:
Low food levels for the microbes protects the plants from Nitrogen spikes and the system from getting gooed by microbial blooms. Micronutes and organics are dilute, but continuously provided - the best strategy for Aero.
Soldiers with little to no food are constantly being introduced - they keep things very clean - including spray lines.
The tea is used within 24 -36 hours to produce the largest number of species, while having digested the food. If you use it too early, your leaves can begin to rams horn because the food has not been digested. If you wait too long to use, the battle for the fittest commences and the number of species available is reduced - leaving you with fewer solutions to natures challenges.
How is it Used?
Since you are sending your bene army off with little food, they need to be constantly replenished. I do this about every three days. I settled on Mondays and Thursdays. This way I always make fresh teas on Sundays and Wednesdays. This matches my mom room tea production and makes it a little easier to deal with.
Application Rates:
TK48 - 8 oz after roots develop
EZ60 - 16 oz after roots develop
When AT is added to the cloner, the plants take off like crazy. If you add it before all the clippings have decent roots, the early rooters will take off first and dominate the less developed plants, resulting in an uneven canopy and mixed final results.
AeroFlo 36 (40 gallon res)
At res change 2 Qt
First 28 days of Bloom 1 Qt(32 oz)
After 28 days of Bloom 1 Pt(16 oz)
What else changes?
Instead of biweekly res changes, only 1 res change is done at day 29.
Zone, Silica, H2O2, Physan20 and the like are no longer needed. PH is regulated and stabilized by the tea - pH down is almost never used. This results in more nutes available in the mix. My base nute mix went from 100A/100B to 130A/130B. This changes the target ppm from around 470 - 500 to 370 - 400. The pH targets remain the same: 5.3 - 6.3, however with tea, pH stabilizes lower at around 5.5. This is a good thing as Aero needs lower pHs more than any other method. Back in the day, Mr. Ito swore by targeting 5.2 with a range of plus/minus .3 in his epic early aero work.
How do You Strain the Tea?
The best solution is a $10 frying pan spatter screen with an extra fine mesh. It sits on top of a bucket for easy use and can be sprayed out with a hose for cleaning.
How do You measure?
I have a bunch of 32 oz beer cups for flower pots, so using one for real brew is easy to eyeball: Full for Qt, half for Pt, and a quarter for 8 oz.
Bubbling Brew
Strained
Ready to Serve!
How Did You Come Up With This?
I certainly didn’t invent this, just adapted for use what many others have documented about teas. Richy Rich’s multiyear adventure with brown slime was inspirational. I went through a years development of my own to finally resolve the recipe and application rates for the AeroFlo. I can say that if you deviate very much from what is presented here, with recipe, application rates and timing, troubles will find you. Lets just say this information was expensive to acquire.
In Conclusion
Aero Tea adds another level of complexity to one of the most anti-KISS methods of growing. But I have never seen plants grow and produce like they do in Syntho/Biotic Aeroponics.
The jump from SA to SBA is not very large and the benefits are many.
This grow should give you a good window on how this works.
As we hit steps in the process, I will point out how the AT is used.
As always, your comments and questions are welcome.
-AK
Everyone who grows all have the same goal - The very finest product possible with their current skills and technology. My journey started like most with bad soil and crude fertilizers. Sparking that first horrible joint, it was the sweetest smoke I ever had because it was mine! I was hooked, and over the years my evolution progressed to organic dirt > dirt & teas > Nutrient Film Tech > Deep Water Culture > Synthetic Aero > Syntho/Biotic Aero.
I’ll prolly never get to High Pressure Aero, but I think “splash-o-ponic” aero is maxed out with the addition of Aero Tea.
Why Teas?
They add an extra complexity and dimension to the flavor and buzz.
They boost production and growth another 5 - 15% over the already outrageous Aero growth rates.
They provide protection against many bad things including: Cyano bacteria (Brown Slime) and Pythium (Root Rot).
Mychorrizals improve root performance and strength.
The root chamber can handle higher temp peaks(85 degrees max) without flopping the plants.
Provides complex organic molecules such as Krebs Cycle components(partially digested sugars) and provides higher levels of micronutrients not available in the base synthetics.
Simplifies the nute regimen. Chlorine, H2O2, Zone, and Silica are no longer needed.
They are very cheap to produce.
Why Doesn’t Everyone Use Them?
Number one problem is clogging. In Aero, clogged lines means dead plants - IN HOURS! Teas by their nature have particulates. Colonies of critters can bloom and goop everything up. Together, you can see how this does not bode well.
They have to be brewed on a schedule. There is no “dump in” solution. This adds another circle of chores to Aero’s daily demands.
Nute regimens have to be altered. Many manufacturers (Including Dutch Master), recommend staying 100% sterile and won’t even answer questions about adding biotics.
So What’s the Solution?
AK’s Current Recipe for Aero Tea
In 5 gallons actively aerated RO water:
1 teaspoon SubCulture B
1 teaspoon SubCulture M
2 teaspoons Black Strap Molasses
2 Tablespoons Earthworm Castings
2 Tablespoons Ancient Forrest
Brew 24 -36 hours before strain and use. You MUST use the tea in this time window.
What Makes This Tea Different?
This tea is designed with very specific strategies:
Low food levels for the microbes protects the plants from Nitrogen spikes and the system from getting gooed by microbial blooms. Micronutes and organics are dilute, but continuously provided - the best strategy for Aero.
Soldiers with little to no food are constantly being introduced - they keep things very clean - including spray lines.
The tea is used within 24 -36 hours to produce the largest number of species, while having digested the food. If you use it too early, your leaves can begin to rams horn because the food has not been digested. If you wait too long to use, the battle for the fittest commences and the number of species available is reduced - leaving you with fewer solutions to natures challenges.
How is it Used?
Since you are sending your bene army off with little food, they need to be constantly replenished. I do this about every three days. I settled on Mondays and Thursdays. This way I always make fresh teas on Sundays and Wednesdays. This matches my mom room tea production and makes it a little easier to deal with.
Application Rates:
TK48 - 8 oz after roots develop
EZ60 - 16 oz after roots develop
When AT is added to the cloner, the plants take off like crazy. If you add it before all the clippings have decent roots, the early rooters will take off first and dominate the less developed plants, resulting in an uneven canopy and mixed final results.
AeroFlo 36 (40 gallon res)
At res change 2 Qt
First 28 days of Bloom 1 Qt(32 oz)
After 28 days of Bloom 1 Pt(16 oz)
What else changes?
Instead of biweekly res changes, only 1 res change is done at day 29.
Zone, Silica, H2O2, Physan20 and the like are no longer needed. PH is regulated and stabilized by the tea - pH down is almost never used. This results in more nutes available in the mix. My base nute mix went from 100A/100B to 130A/130B. This changes the target ppm from around 470 - 500 to 370 - 400. The pH targets remain the same: 5.3 - 6.3, however with tea, pH stabilizes lower at around 5.5. This is a good thing as Aero needs lower pHs more than any other method. Back in the day, Mr. Ito swore by targeting 5.2 with a range of plus/minus .3 in his epic early aero work.
How do You Strain the Tea?
The best solution is a $10 frying pan spatter screen with an extra fine mesh. It sits on top of a bucket for easy use and can be sprayed out with a hose for cleaning.
How do You measure?
I have a bunch of 32 oz beer cups for flower pots, so using one for real brew is easy to eyeball: Full for Qt, half for Pt, and a quarter for 8 oz.
Bubbling Brew
Strained
Ready to Serve!
How Did You Come Up With This?
I certainly didn’t invent this, just adapted for use what many others have documented about teas. Richy Rich’s multiyear adventure with brown slime was inspirational. I went through a years development of my own to finally resolve the recipe and application rates for the AeroFlo. I can say that if you deviate very much from what is presented here, with recipe, application rates and timing, troubles will find you. Lets just say this information was expensive to acquire.
In Conclusion
Aero Tea adds another level of complexity to one of the most anti-KISS methods of growing. But I have never seen plants grow and produce like they do in Syntho/Biotic Aeroponics.
The jump from SA to SBA is not very large and the benefits are many.
This grow should give you a good window on how this works.
As we hit steps in the process, I will point out how the AT is used.
As always, your comments and questions are welcome.
-AK
Last edited:
oldergrower
Member
WOW
WOW
AK, very interesting new nute regieme. I really like your old regime but
will definitely be giving this new regime a shot after this current grow. Gl as always OG
WOW
AK, very interesting new nute regieme. I really like your old regime but
will definitely be giving this new regime a shot after this current grow. Gl as always OG
