Clone Machine SbS, EZ Cloner, Power Cloner, and Rainforest.

[SooperSmurph]

How do you know?

If they were having a negative response to the azamax, they'd already be throwaway material in my experience, neem is really rough on unrooted clones when sprayed after cutting, wilting, crisping, and curling them beyond recognition, since they haven't had this reaction, i'm leaning toward their condition being sufficient for the purposes of this side by side

On that note, day 7 images!



Once again, left to right, Power Cloner, Rainforest, EZ Cloner.

 

[SooperSmurph]

And rootzone images.



Power Cloner, Rainforest, EZ Cloner.

Perhaps my eyes are deceiving me, but the telltale white spots that precede root nubs seem to be appearing on the EZ Cloner examples, we'll check back after a day to see if that's the case.

 

[Alone]

Def will get bumps faster in the EZ-Cloner for sure. Love this machine!!!
I use Rooting Gel
1 full bottle of Olivias Clone Solution in my 20gln rez.
3 drops SuperThrive
1/4 tsp of Pro-Tekt.
I get perfect results every time. Im so glad you have all 3 SooperSmurph to proove once and for all, the EZ-Clone is hands down the winner.

 

[SooperSmurph]

Def will get bumps faster in the EZ-Cloner for sure. Love this machine!!!
I use Rooting Gel
1 full bottle of Olivias Clone Solution in my 20gln rez.
3 drops SuperThrive
1/4 tsp of Pro-Tekt.
I get perfect results every time. Im so glad you have all 3 SooperSmurph to proove once and for all, the EZ-Clone is hands down the winner.

Personally, I find rooting gel to be unnecessary in machines, it's just being washed right off the cutting and mixed into the res, is it not?

I probably should start throwing Silica in with my cloning solution, though.

 

[Alone]

I hear that alot, BUT..... I allow the gel to soak into the 1/4" of stem before placing it in the machine. Its only a topical root stimulator anyways, its not supposed to be absorbed into the stem like water. As long as the outer skin gets alittle gel worked into it, I get roots in 7 days. Big, white, hairy roots.
Maybe that could be your next side x side experiment with the winning clone machine.
Do 15 with the gel, and 15 without?

 

[SooperSmurph]

I hear that alot, BUT..... I allow the gel to soak into the 1/4" of stem before placing it in the machine. Its only a topical root stimulator anyways, its not supposed to be absorbed into the stem like water. As long as the outer skin gets alittle gel worked into it, I get roots in 7 days. Big, white, hairy roots.
Maybe that could be your next side x side experiment with the winning clone machine.
Do 15 with the gel, and 15 without?

Maybe 3 ways, 10 with gel, 10 with a liquid concentrate rooting agent (such as Dip-N-Grow), and 10 with no additive? Sounds good to me.

Day 8 update! Both the EZ Cloner and Power Cloner examples are throwing initial roots!



Rainforest examples sadly don't yet have any roots or nubs, but there are some spots where whitening is visible.

 

[gurnt]

What your room temper
thanks

 

[SooperSmurph]

What your room temper
thanks

Ambient day temps in the veg under the main lights range from the mid 70s to the low 80s fahrenheit.

The clone machines stay to the side, near the A/C vent, in an area whose ambient day temps range in the mid to high 70s.

Thanks for stopping by!

 

[papaduc]

What interests me is the ambient temps inside each of these cloning machines.

I'd imagine the different motors, tank sizes etc, will contribute to a difference of single degrees in temperature between each of the models, and in my experience it's been that which has the biggest effect on cloning times.

I actually think that because the method of cloning is essentially the same; ie that the stem is hung in mid air in a humid environment, that the differences in results are as likely to be related to the small differences in temperature etc than any mechanical difference between the various cloners.

Pop a probe inside each one if possible and see how much the temps vary amongst them.

I'd say even a 2c swing in temps between one model vs another could translate into days of difference in rooting times and overall growth.

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

So depending upon the temperature of your grow room, one cloner might be better than another for that situation.

 

[SooperSmurph]

What interests me is the ambient temps inside each of these cloning machines.

I'd imagine the different motors, tank sizes etc, will contribute to a difference of single degrees in temperature between each of the models, and in my experience it's been that which has the biggest effect on cloning times.

Thanks for the suggestion, i'll take some temperature readings today in both the "On" and "Off" states so we have some data to put towards this theory.

 

[SooperSmurph]

Measurements were taken, once while the units were off, and once during the 60 seconds while the units were on.

Temperature Data:

EZ Cloner On: 77° F
EZ Cloner Off: 75° F

Power Cloner On: 76° F
Power Cloner Off: 75° F

Rainforest On: 74° F
Rainforest Off: 74° F

The EZ and Power cloners both have small temperature spikes while the unit is on, while the Rainforest with its less intense mode of transport sees almost no differentiation in temperature between "On" and "Off" states.

 

[SooperSmurph]

I'm a tad embarrassed stupidity on my part resulted in the deletion of the Day 13 images for the EZ Cloner, this is what brought about the slight delay in this update, me scrambling around with futility trying to find a copy of the images somewhere.

So, we'll be showing the day 13 images for the Rainforest and Power Cloner examples, and then the day 16 images for all three groups.

Day 13, Top View, Rainforest on the Left, Power Cloner on the right:


Day 16, top view, Rainforest, Power Cloner, EZ Cloner.

 

[SooperSmurph]

Day 13, root view, Rainforest, Power Cloner.


Day 16, root view, Rainforest, Power Cloner, EZ Cloner.

 

[SooperSmurph]

Conclusions

The Power Cloner and EZ Cloner produced more roots, faster.

The EZ Cloner examples are just slightly healthier as of day 16, giving me the confidence to declare it the winner, with the Power Cloner as a very close 2nd, and the Rainforest bringing up the rear.

The Rainforest unit had a failed clone, which neither of the other example groups had, shown here:


Next Side by Side will use the winning machine, the EZ Cloner, and will investigate the effects of Liquid Rooting Concentrate vs Rooting Gel, with an un-dipped control group.

 

[mack 10]

interesting.. great thread.

 

[Alone]

Conclusions
Next Side by Side will use the winning machine, the EZ Cloner, and will investigate the effects of Liquid Rooting Concentrate vs Rooting Gel, with an un-dipped control group.

Sounds good. I would love to see that.
Allow the dipped cuts to remain in the gel for 1 minute before putting into the EZ-C.

 

[SooperSmurph]

Sounds good. I would love to see that.
Allow the dipped cuts to remain in the gel for 1 minute before putting into the EZ-C.

The new thread has been submitted, I await only the knowing approval of master Payaso

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

It is very interesting that the EZ Cloner and the Power Cloner had roots at the tip of the stem while the Rainforest unit only showed root growth further up the stem above the plastic cross pieces. I suspect that if the cloners had been run without the use of a cycling on/off timer, the Rainforest would have had results comparable to the others.

Inside an aerocloner the spray hits the stems and water runs down the stems to form a droplet at the tip. When the cloner has an on/off cycle this droplet hanging at the tip keeps the cutting hydrated. Looks like the plastic crossbars (which the other cloners do not have) intercept the water running down the stems and reduce the formation of a stem tip droplet. During the off cycle these lower stems in the Rainforest were drying out faster than in the EZ and Power Cloners, hence the lack of lower stem root development in the Rainforest.

Next Side by Side will use the winning machine, the EZ Cloner, and will investigate the effects of Liquid Rooting Concentrate vs Rooting Gel, with an un-dipped control group.

With your next experiment, if all groups are in the same cloner, then your control group will be subjected to the rooting hormones washed off the experimental group's stems. Your bath water will be a dilute solution of the Liguid Rooting Concentrate and Rooting Gel.

 

[SooperSmurph]

It is very interesting that the EZ Cloner and the Power Cloner had roots at the tip of the stem while the Rainforest unit only showed root growth further up the stem above the plastic cross pieces. I suspect that if the cloners had been run without the use of a cycling on/off timer, the Rainforest would have had results comparable to the others.

Previously, when the Rainforest was run without a cycle timer, its success rate was very low (around 50%), the cycle timer brought its success rate in line with that the other cloners had already been experiencing.

I had the same thought about the plastic crossbars, they were removed in an older Rainforest, but this removal had no effect upon the rooting pattern or success of the clones, prompting me to leave them in place in this new unit.