Gave plants Anearobic Tea, How to Rectify?

[HidingInTheHaze]

Today I was in a bit of a rush and it really didn't dawn on me til afterwards that my tea might have been slightly anaerobic.

I was getting a pond water type smell and I don't think this is good.

What would you do to rectify this?

Im thinking flush with clean water right now and then brew up an aerobic tea and apply in a day or two? Does this sound about right?

I've been brewing tea for a number of years and don't quite know what would have caused this to go anaerobic.

I have adequate air, I used good quality ingredients. nothing out of the ordinary.
The only thing I can think of is my room temp was 80 degrees, do you think this could be the cause? I have been having a little bit of trouble with my well water and it was a tiny bit orange from rust the other day, do you think this could be the cause?

 

[Granger2]

Can't speak about the cause, but the solution you're considering is what I would do. Good luck. -granger

 

[xmobotx]

i wouldnt worry about this 1 iota & i would never flush organics for any reason

i have used crashed tea and anaerobic tea w/ no negative effect

do you actually have any negative effect to consider?

 

[Crusader Rabbit]

If your soil dries it will be in an aerobic state. If you flush it then it will remain in a sodden anaerobic state until it dries. If there were any nasties in your tea they will prefer the waterlogged soil.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

do you actually have any negative effect to consider?

After years of doing what I do, my yields have taken a nose dive. Is that enough of a negative to consider? lol
I just didn't want to make things worse.

I gave a little bit of fresh water, I wouldn't call it a flush as this only provided a minimal amount of run off. I'll let it dry out some and make fresh tea for the weekend.

 

[OrganicBuds]

80 degrees and up water wont hold much O2. That is your problem in my opinion.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

80 degrees and up water wont hold much O2. That is your problem in my opinion.

I concur.

I actually read anything over 70 and starts losing its DO holding capacity.

It only gets over 80 when the lights are on, but I will have to start running the A/C in my room to keep the temps down while I brew. Growing in the winter is so much less of a head ache, summer heat and humidity add so much frustration.

 

[OrganicOzarks]

I brew tea outside with great success. The temps can start out at 80 in the morning, and clime to 100 in the afternoon. No problem with brewing a tea in these conditions. Your temperature is not the limiting factor.

What style brewer are you using?

How many gallons is the brewer?

What are your inputs?

How long are you brewing the tea for?

Have you scope, or had any of your teas tested for microbial count?

 

[OrganicBuds]

How does your water hold 02 then OO?

 

[OrganicOzarks]

I won't lie and say I know much about DO levels, and temperatures, and the curve of when they start to drop. All I know is that I brew tea outside(did a 50 gallon yesterday) and it was a good brew under the scope. I do 3-5 brews per week, and in the summer most of those are outside. In August it gets in the hundreds here, and my brews do just fine.

I don't Own a DO meter, and I really don't need one as I scope everything. A DO meter can't show you the microbial count in your tea.

Where is the DO rating vs. microbial growth vs. temperature thing coming from? Because my experiences show the contrary.

 

[Jhhnn]

After years of doing what I do, my yields have taken a nose dive. Is that enough of a negative to consider? lol
I just didn't want to make things worse.

I gave a little bit of fresh water, I wouldn't call it a flush as this only provided a minimal amount of run off. I'll let it dry out some and make fresh tea for the weekend.

I think he meant new negative effects from the tea.

Not that I'm any sort of expert, but barring any serious issues, I'd just let the plants dry until they droop, apply fresh aerobic tea when they do. If the situation turned bad, I'd flush.

 

[Jhhnn]

I won't lie and say I know much about DO levels, and temperatures, and the curve of when they start to drop. All I know is that I brew tea outside(did a 50 gallon yesterday) and it was a good brew under the scope. I do 3-5 brews per week, and in the summer most of those are outside. In August it gets in the hundreds here, and my brews do just fine.

I don't Own a DO meter, and I really don't need one as I scope everything. A DO meter can't show you the microbial count in your tea.

Where is the DO rating vs. microbial growth vs. temperature thing coming from? Because my experiences show the contrary.

I think the concern over temperature & DO is a carry over from aquaria. Some fish will tolerate high temps up to 92F or so that will kill some pathogens, but it's important to aerate extremely well in the process. Fish need more DO than bacteria.

Aerobic bacterial growth rates will explode at higher temps with saturated DO levels, even though those levels are reduced at higher temps. I'm sure there's a point of diminished returns somewhere well above 100F. With strong aeration, any human tolerable warm temps should be fine.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

I won't lie and say I know much about DO levels, and temperatures, and the curve of when they start to drop. All I know is that I brew tea outside(did a 50 gallon yesterday) and it was a good brew under the scope. I do 3-5 brews per week, and in the summer most of those are outside. In August it gets in the hundreds here, and my brews do just fine.

I don't Own a DO meter, and I really don't need one as I scope everything. A DO meter can't show you the microbial count in your tea.

Where is the DO rating vs. microbial growth vs. temperature thing coming from? Because my experiences show the contrary.

Basically what I was getting at is an an aerobic solution there is sufficient oxygen to support life of good bacteria.

In an anaerobic solution oxygen levels are insufficient causing the wrong types of bacteria to form and thus a foul odor.

If you google something to the nature of "dissolved oxygen water" you will get results and charts which show the holding capacity of water at certain temperatures.

Above lets say 75-80 degrees or so the dissolved oxygen levels lessen. Which is why I thought my tea might have gone anaerobic.

Now I cannot say for certain my tea was anaerobic, but it did not smell so fresh and sweet like it usually does. It had a slightly acrid odor like pond water.

Nothing was done out of the ordinary so I assumed maybe it got a little too warm.

Your teas may not be affected by heat so much if you are pumping a higher volume of air then I do. I just use an eco plus pump 38 litre per min in a 7 gallon bucket.

I do not own a microscope so my thoughts are generated by what I put together from things I've read.

 

[self]

I'm pretty sure Ive been using partially anaerobic teas for years...with no ill effects, still better than plain h20 inmho.
Let me explain, I still brew the incorrect way, in a five gallon bucket with an air stone, temps 55-65. I never empty my bucket either. I just top it off with new foods, h20 and innoculating agents when it gets low. My teas come out many different ways, but I've never noticed an ill effect from them.
I've used everything from pond water smelling through baby poop foul, to sweet thick popcorn odor tea...I honestly cannot say its made a difference one way or another.
My theory is that a healthy living soil will consume anaerobic bacteria and their metabolites and maintain its aerobic conditions as long as proper soil conditions are maintained and the tea is not somehow so anaerobic as to be toxic, ie from fermentation and production of acetic acid or alcohols. Ie, an anaerobic tea should not cause your soil to become anaerobic, anaerobic conditions in your soil would. My goal is to provide my soil with a soluble nutrient tea, which is accomplished either way , I think. I've got nothing but observation and experience to back this up, so I'd love to hear an expert break it down more...

 

[Mr.Fastcast]

I concur.

I actually read anything over 70 and starts losing its DO holding capacity.





This is why I'm going to try an aquarium heater.I brew in the garage,so my temp swing is crazy in the winter months.Thought about brewing in the grow room,but that is really not practical in my room.

 

[Smurfette4:21]

If your soil dries it will be in an aerobic state. If you flush it then it will remain in a sodden anaerobic state until it dries. If there were any nasties in your tea they will prefer the waterlogged soil.

This is what you want to do.

 

[furrywall11]

I brew in the shade where it's 80-90 degrees. Sometimes my tea comes out stinky, sometimes sweet and fresh smelling.... I think it might be due to very slight variations in my ratios of humus to kelp to fish hydrolyze. Just a thought.

 

[Microbeman]

Interesting discussion.

Originally Posted by OrganicBuds
80 degrees and up water wont hold much O2. That is your problem in my opinion.

I concur.

I actually read anything over 70 and starts losing its DO holding capacity

Dependent on your brewer design and amount of air input, there is a variation to that 'law/theory'. For example, if one is using an airlift type design or very heavy air input one can exceed these limitations by supersaturating the liquid with dissolved oxygen. Such a situation can occur naturally proximal to a waterfall or rapids.

I brew tea outside with great success. The temps can start out at 80 in the morning, and clime to 100 in the afternoon. No problem with brewing a tea in these conditions. Your temperature is not the limiting factor.

What style brewer are you using?

How many gallons is the brewer?

What are your inputs?

How long are you brewing the tea for?

I have also brewed successfully outside in 100F+ ambient temperatures. The starting temperature of your water is far more important than ambient temperatures. A starting temp of 65F is very good but if it is hot out, I start with cooler water temp.

I'd also like to hear the answers to these questions.

Generally a foul odor is indicative of anaerobic bacteria but I would not worry about it. A few anaerobes are good.

I'd just let the plants dry until they droop

I'm not an advocate of this.

I just use an eco plus pump 38 litre per min in a 7 gallon bucket

.

The Ecoplus Comm 1 is plenty of aeration for 7 gallons, assuming good diffusion.

I'm pretty sure Ive been using partially anaerobic teas for years...with no ill effects, still better than plain h20 inmho.
Let me explain, I still brew the incorrect way, in a five gallon bucket with an air stone, temps 55-65. I never empty my bucket either. I just top it off with new foods, h20 and innoculating agents when it gets low. My teas come out many different ways, but I've never noticed an ill effect from them.
I've used everything from pond water smelling through baby poop foul, to sweet thick popcorn odor tea...I honestly cannot say its made a difference one way or another.
My theory is that a healthy living soil will consume anaerobic bacteria and their metabolites and maintain its aerobic conditions as long as proper soil conditions are maintained and the tea is not somehow so anaerobic as to be toxic, ie from fermentation and production of acetic acid or alcohols. Ie, an anaerobic tea should not cause your soil to become anaerobic, anaerobic conditions in your soil would. My goal is to provide my soil with a soluble nutrient tea, which is accomplished either way , I think. I've got nothing but observation and experience to back this up, so I'd love to hear an expert break it down more...

There are a lot of good points made here. As I've noted, some anaerobes are good and those who have become anal retentive (sp?) about anaerobes are IMO exxagerating things. Your lower temperatures are likely contributing to your 'good' results (as observed)

As I've said plenty of times, it is difficult to make a bad compost tea but easy to make a better to optimal one. The folks who have said that anaerobic teas will kill your plants, do a disservice to science and natural growing.

On the other hand, as you have mentioned, were one to create a fermentation with alcohol, then harm could definitely be done.

I don't know if you are getting a soluble nutrient solution with your teas. This would depend on your inputs. This is not the typical goal of compost tea. Rather, it is to multiply certain microorganisms which can cycle nutrients to plants, among some other things.

In general a better aerated compost tea will include maintaining the dissolved oxygen over 5.7 (6) PPM for the majority of time. Sometimes it will dip down to around 3 PPM when ingredients are added (at the beginning) but it should recover. Most of my ACTs finish over 7 PPM DO2.

When I was using water from an underground mountain stream, they finished at 10 to 11 PPM DO2.

http://www.microbeorganics.com/#More_on_Compost_Tea_2013_

 

[Jhhnn]

Here's the chart-

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/79825057/Temperature-vs-Dissolved-Oxygen-porosity

The need for active oxygenation is just higher at higher temps. If fish can live in it, bacteria won't have any trouble at all. My heat tolerant S American cichlids have endured 92F with strong aeration.

I should have said a little droopy, when they tell you that they'd like some water...