Organic soil and fungus gnat solutions...
- Thread starter wiesser
- Start date
good point
soo why all these lame brains advising one to risk water stressing plants & creating a environment perfect for mite thriving conditions
try diverse layer mulching dude
dry scented hardy herbs like rosemary,thyme,lavender,sweet majaram,sage etc at the top or last
to keep the surface dry with pest deterrent aromas..you can dust that with DE or better mineral rich rock dust/flour aswell
under you can mix nutrient rich plant matter along with casting/compost amended with neem/karanja & or crustacean meal
for a more direct approach
try daily light misting to moisten/drenches with neem or karanja & botanicals like pennyroyal,thyme,rosemary,clove,star anise w/ aloe
*garam masala works wonders for all pest/diseases*
just like wormfarming,try to keep surface covered specially when using any kind of compost
mulch layering, yellow sticky traps or a rich diverse living canopy for predators to dwell
Ludo
Member
I find that these gnats don't need to be feared or hated as much as it seems they are........
What I've come to understand is that the flys lay eggs, the eggs hatch into larve and these are the ones that do the 'damage'........BUT......the 'damage' they do is to eat dead roots and help to compost the soil in some way........so if I have understood it right, they help more than they hurt.........
As far as creating 'perfect mite conditions' I have never heard of mites that like a wet spray.....how? They may thrive in humid conditions, but if a spraydown of your plants results in too humid conditions, your room does not work......buy new equipment. BUT....if you should get some mites in your room, wich is practicly impossible round here atm cause running in and out from the yard and greenhouse, I dont always change all my clothes down to my briefs.......so some get carried in. But when the plants are green and healthy, no mites can do them harm......as accomplished with compost tea, but thats another thread..........(guiness book of records don't lie-see vegetables)
Or if you have some, here is an idea.......NO, its the SOLUTION to MITES
I read an article in a garden mag a few weeks ago, a woman had written about spidermites. She had studied their behaviour and how the 'attack' the plants. She found out that some pests fly in, and some crawl. Spidermites are spiders, so they crawl, and she came up with the simplest and most effectfull spidermite control/almost total ellimination. When I read this, i laughed for minutes.....soooo easy and sooo cheap and yet SOOO effective.....here it comes: You tie a stickytrap (yellow flytraps) around the stem of the plants, you simply make a spiral a few cm up, and here it is.....the mites try to crawl up the stem and are caought by the trap.......just make sure no leaves touch the ground and you are home free......try it out....you wont regret it.......in my greenhouse my peach has mites........leaves drop onto my raised bed in there with pepers, tomatoes, mellons and beans.......but NONE of these plants are infected by mites as they have this done to all.......
so try it out and help yourself. And go buy roses for the wife/g-friend or donate it to the needy for all the mite-poison you'd have bought......peace
What I've come to understand is that the flys lay eggs, the eggs hatch into larve and these are the ones that do the 'damage'........BUT......the 'damage' they do is to eat dead roots and help to compost the soil in some way........so if I have understood it right, they help more than they hurt.........
As far as creating 'perfect mite conditions' I have never heard of mites that like a wet spray.....how? They may thrive in humid conditions, but if a spraydown of your plants results in too humid conditions, your room does not work......buy new equipment. BUT....if you should get some mites in your room, wich is practicly impossible round here atm cause running in and out from the yard and greenhouse, I dont always change all my clothes down to my briefs.......so some get carried in. But when the plants are green and healthy, no mites can do them harm......as accomplished with compost tea, but thats another thread..........(guiness book of records don't lie-see vegetables)
Or if you have some, here is an idea.......NO, its the SOLUTION to MITES
I read an article in a garden mag a few weeks ago, a woman had written about spidermites. She had studied their behaviour and how the 'attack' the plants. She found out that some pests fly in, and some crawl. Spidermites are spiders, so they crawl, and she came up with the simplest and most effectfull spidermite control/almost total ellimination. When I read this, i laughed for minutes.....soooo easy and sooo cheap and yet SOOO effective.....here it comes: You tie a stickytrap (yellow flytraps) around the stem of the plants, you simply make a spiral a few cm up, and here it is.....the mites try to crawl up the stem and are caought by the trap.......just make sure no leaves touch the ground and you are home free......try it out....you wont regret it.......in my greenhouse my peach has mites........leaves drop onto my raised bed in there with pepers, tomatoes, mellons and beans.......but NONE of these plants are infected by mites as they have this done to all....... so try it out and help yourself. And go buy roses for the wife/g-friend or donate it to the needy for all the mite-poison you'd have bought......peace
let me spell this out for yea
let me spell this out for yea
@ ludo
if the "As far as creating 'perfect mite conditions..." was directed at my post...well
in the words of Uncle M
learn to read_sherlock
its the risk of water stressing plants,written in qouted sentence
with famed wet/dry practices, that creates such conditions but thats another thread
OP is asking about gnats
let me spell this out for yea
@ ludo
if the "As far as creating 'perfect mite conditions..." was directed at my post...well
in the words of Uncle M
learn to read_sherlock
its the risk of water stressing plants,written in qouted sentence
with famed wet/dry practices, that creates such conditions but thats another thread
OP is asking about gnats
C
CT Guy
Easy solution:
2 cups of neem cake from neemresource.com (kisorganics.com has the same product). Pour it into a 5 gallon bucket and let it bubble for 24 hours to fully solubilize. Water the entire surface of the container. Done. If it's really bad (thousands of gnats), it may take a few applications. Just replace a normal watering with this recipe. Oh, and you will need to put up some yellow fly strips to catch the adults so they don't keep laying eggs. It doesn't get any easier than this in my opinion, gives the plant a little N, and is super cheap and effective.
2 cups of neem cake from neemresource.com (kisorganics.com has the same product). Pour it into a 5 gallon bucket and let it bubble for 24 hours to fully solubilize. Water the entire surface of the container. Done. If it's really bad (thousands of gnats), it may take a few applications. Just replace a normal watering with this recipe. Oh, and you will need to put up some yellow fly strips to catch the adults so they don't keep laying eggs. It doesn't get any easier than this in my opinion, gives the plant a little N, and is super cheap and effective.
1) Soil/compost/worm tea. You can make a tea with your organic soil, worm castings and melassis. Bubble for 24 hours, and pour over both the foliage (important) and the soil. This will reduce your gnat population in no time.
2) Drench the soil in neem oil.
Both work, but the first is the most organic, even though neem oil is organic too. It does other wonderful things too, like speed up the decomposition of organic material in your container (or batch of super soil - for which you should use it undiluted).
I'm starting to think that when there is an insect outbreak, it is because there is too little microbial activity.
a layer (1-2cm) of perlite or sterilized sand on top of your soil will do the trick..another easy
way to get rid of them, is to use Nematodes..tiny worms which will eat the larvae.
way to get rid of them, is to use Nematodes..tiny worms which will eat the larvae.
From another thread https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=5647315&postcount=316....adding Mosquito Bits (not DUNKS) to your soil, bacteria brew, or even as a "top dressing" does work. Adding yellow sticky cards and observing the number of gnats is a nice measuring tool...since I count only 4-10 gnats per card (4 weeks)--I know I am OK. (My next door neighbor over waters her outdoor plants...and I assume that is the primary source of fungus gnats).
Let me clear up something--you are 100% correct that there have been reported incidents of critters developing a resistance to the active ingredient in Gnatrol, Mosquito Dunks/Bits--bacillus thuringiensis israelensis (BTI). But if we understand WHEN to use BTI, your rate of success in battling fungus gnats and your pocket book will both improve.
First--here is the Fungus Gnat lifecycle...
The Mode of Action for BTI is "mid-gut membrane disruptor" (no chems) and is most effective against the young first instar larvae, which at the 4 o'clock position in the above pic. The bacteria must be ingested by the larva, after which a toxic protein crystal is released into the insect's gut. Larvae stop feeding and die.
Fungus gnats life cycle is 20-28 days and as you can see, BTI is effective only 2-3 of those days. Huge draw back of Gnatrol is its short effective life of 48 hours, whereas Mosquito Bits/Dunks are constantly releasing BTI as moisture dissolves the carrier--which can take days/weeks.
Strategic use of BTI is the key to success...as there are only a few days of the gnats life when it will work!
Hope this helps!
BTW...for a "soil critter spray" consider this recipe--that will seriously knock down the soil dwellers...but fair warning, if you overspray--it will be white and look like snow on Christmas Morning.
1 gal water
8 oz of Fossil Shell Flour (foodgrade DE)
30 ml Neem Oil
30 ml Riptide (pyrethrin+pbo)
Constant shaking and spray the soil surface liberally! The Fossil Shell Flour acts as both a carrier for the Neem & Riptide...and the dried diatoms act as a "grinder" of sorts and shreds the wings/legs of gnats.
Tip: Emulsify the Neem Oil: Mason jar half filled with water + Neem Oil + Riptide....seal, and shake like a mutha. Then add water to equal 1 gallon.
Cheers!
Let me clear up something--you are 100% correct that there have been reported incidents of critters developing a resistance to the active ingredient in Gnatrol, Mosquito Dunks/Bits--bacillus thuringiensis israelensis (BTI). But if we understand WHEN to use BTI, your rate of success in battling fungus gnats and your pocket book will both improve.
First--here is the Fungus Gnat lifecycle...
The Mode of Action for BTI is "mid-gut membrane disruptor" (no chems) and is most effective against the young first instar larvae, which at the 4 o'clock position in the above pic. The bacteria must be ingested by the larva, after which a toxic protein crystal is released into the insect's gut. Larvae stop feeding and die.
Fungus gnats life cycle is 20-28 days and as you can see, BTI is effective only 2-3 of those days. Huge draw back of Gnatrol is its short effective life of 48 hours, whereas Mosquito Bits/Dunks are constantly releasing BTI as moisture dissolves the carrier--which can take days/weeks.
Strategic use of BTI is the key to success...as there are only a few days of the gnats life when it will work!
Hope this helps!
BTW...for a "soil critter spray" consider this recipe--that will seriously knock down the soil dwellers...but fair warning, if you overspray--it will be white and look like snow on Christmas Morning.
1 gal water
8 oz of Fossil Shell Flour (foodgrade DE)
30 ml Neem Oil
30 ml Riptide (pyrethrin+pbo)
Constant shaking and spray the soil surface liberally! The Fossil Shell Flour acts as both a carrier for the Neem & Riptide...and the dried diatoms act as a "grinder" of sorts and shreds the wings/legs of gnats.
Tip: Emulsify the Neem Oil: Mason jar half filled with water + Neem Oil + Riptide....seal, and shake like a mutha. Then add water to equal 1 gallon.
Cheers!
These threads are always interesting - the replies are all over the place.
The two big guns for organic gnat control are BTi and Beneficial nematodes. Neem is a fantastic organic product, but systemic use of it (soil) will impart a taste to the dried flowers, a taste that most people do not like.
I've used Gnatrol Bti for years with total control - just this past year, for the first time, it failed to work. I suspect that the gnats may be developing resistance. I would still recommend Gnatrol or Bti, but the nematodes I ordered from Arbico wiped them out with one application. Highly recommend Arbico for price and quality of nematodes.
Also, mosquito dunks are Bti but are not certified organic, they have non-organic ingredients.
This year I've also used D-earth for the first time, wow does it work. Just applying to the soil surface and tray under the plant kicks their ass right down in a 1-2 days. It doesn't finish them off like nematodes though.
I appreciate the suggestion of adding 1 cup/20 gallons of soil as a systemic treatment. Have not tried that before. That would be a lot easier and cleaner than 'todes or BTi, thanks for the tip. If it works it would be awesome, I love DE. It can even be taken directly by mouth in humans and dogs for digestive parasites. Fantastic product.
The two big guns for organic gnat control are BTi and Beneficial nematodes. Neem is a fantastic organic product, but systemic use of it (soil) will impart a taste to the dried flowers, a taste that most people do not like.
I've used Gnatrol Bti for years with total control - just this past year, for the first time, it failed to work. I suspect that the gnats may be developing resistance. I would still recommend Gnatrol or Bti, but the nematodes I ordered from Arbico wiped them out with one application. Highly recommend Arbico for price and quality of nematodes.
Also, mosquito dunks are Bti but are not certified organic, they have non-organic ingredients.
This year I've also used D-earth for the first time, wow does it work. Just applying to the soil surface and tray under the plant kicks their ass right down in a 1-2 days. It doesn't finish them off like nematodes though.
I appreciate the suggestion of adding 1 cup/20 gallons of soil as a systemic treatment. Have not tried that before. That would be a lot easier and cleaner than 'todes or BTi, thanks for the tip. If it works it would be awesome, I love DE. It can even be taken directly by mouth in humans and dogs for digestive parasites. Fantastic product.
MS...I too used to think that BOTH Mosquito Dunks and Bits were "not certified organic"--but, when researching "all things Mosquito Bits", I stumbled on Summit Chemical's 2009 press release--announcing their Mosquito Dunks are NOP "certified organic".
"Mosquito Dunks, America’s favorite biological mosquito larvicide, are now approved for organic production by the USDA National Organic Program. That means everyone from commercial farmers to backyard gardeners who are looking for an effective, organic way to kill mosquitoes before they can become flying, biting, disease-spreading adults can now use Mosquito Dunks."
source: http://www.summitchemical.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Organic-Production-Dunks.pdf
Unfortunately, Mosquito Bits (the product I use) is "not on the list". But I am OK with that, since the inert ingredients are corn cob bits and vegetable oil (Dunks are made of cork and calcium carbonate)--in my "almost organic world", there is no harm and no foul
BTW...from their 2012 press release--
"Summit Mosquito Bits®, a popular biological control that kills mosquito larvae, is now also approved for the control of fungus gnats. The active ingredient in Mosquito Bits® is a biological larvacide called BTI (Bacillus thuringiensis subspecies israelensis). BTI is a naturally occurring bacterium that’s deadly to both mosquito larvae and fungus gnat larvae.
Fungus gnats can infest potted plants, and the insects can be difficult to control. Fungus gnats lay their eggs in the potting soil of houseplants and container plants, and the larvae live in the moist potting mix. In the larval stage, the fungus gnat maggots can cause plant damage by eating plant roots. After about two to three weeks, the fungus gnat maggots pupate to become the tiny black adult gnats that often take flight in a cloud of insects when a potted plant is moved.
To control fungus gnats, simply shake the granular Mosquito Bits® onto the potting soil in houseplants and other container-grown plants. Mosquito Bits® can also be mixed with potting soil prior to planting. When the plants are watered, the BTI in the Mosquito Bits® will be released. After subsequent watering, the BTI is washed below the soil surface. Fungus gnat larvae feed on the BTI and die."
Source: http://www.summitchemical.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Mosquito-Bits-5.12.pdf
IMHO...in a year or so, I bet Mosquito Bits will be "certified organic" too....like what is soo wrong with corn cob bits sprayed with a bit of vegetable oil & BTI?
"Mosquito Dunks, America’s favorite biological mosquito larvicide, are now approved for organic production by the USDA National Organic Program. That means everyone from commercial farmers to backyard gardeners who are looking for an effective, organic way to kill mosquitoes before they can become flying, biting, disease-spreading adults can now use Mosquito Dunks."
source: http://www.summitchemical.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Organic-Production-Dunks.pdf
Unfortunately, Mosquito Bits (the product I use) is "not on the list". But I am OK with that, since the inert ingredients are corn cob bits and vegetable oil (Dunks are made of cork and calcium carbonate)--in my "almost organic world", there is no harm and no foul
BTW...from their 2012 press release--
"Summit Mosquito Bits®, a popular biological control that kills mosquito larvae, is now also approved for the control of fungus gnats. The active ingredient in Mosquito Bits® is a biological larvacide called BTI (Bacillus thuringiensis subspecies israelensis). BTI is a naturally occurring bacterium that’s deadly to both mosquito larvae and fungus gnat larvae.
Fungus gnats can infest potted plants, and the insects can be difficult to control. Fungus gnats lay their eggs in the potting soil of houseplants and container plants, and the larvae live in the moist potting mix. In the larval stage, the fungus gnat maggots can cause plant damage by eating plant roots. After about two to three weeks, the fungus gnat maggots pupate to become the tiny black adult gnats that often take flight in a cloud of insects when a potted plant is moved.
To control fungus gnats, simply shake the granular Mosquito Bits® onto the potting soil in houseplants and other container-grown plants. Mosquito Bits® can also be mixed with potting soil prior to planting. When the plants are watered, the BTI in the Mosquito Bits® will be released. After subsequent watering, the BTI is washed below the soil surface. Fungus gnat larvae feed on the BTI and die."
Source: http://www.summitchemical.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Mosquito-Bits-5.12.pdf
IMHO...in a year or so, I bet Mosquito Bits will be "certified organic" too....like what is soo wrong with corn cob bits sprayed with a bit of vegetable oil & BTI?
Did not mean to suggest that mosquito dunks are bad just because they're not 100% organic, there's probably no difference whatsoever. It costs money to get OMRI approved for organic, it's not worth it for everybody.
Lots of people use Neem or Neem-derived products in the soil, nothing wrong with it, I'd rather have it any day over chemical pesticides.
I would like to think D-earth in the soil works, but I read a study recently that found no effect at all on fungus gnats. I will try it next time anyway.
Lots of people use Neem or Neem-derived products in the soil, nothing wrong with it, I'd rather have it any day over chemical pesticides.
I would like to think D-earth in the soil works, but I read a study recently that found no effect at all on fungus gnats. I will try it next time anyway.
I've always covered the top of my soil with 1-2 inches of sand as prevention. Works as mulch and dries the eggs out too. Haven't seen a single one since I started doing it. Best method imho.
canniption
Active member
I found this the other day,supposed to work on fungus gnats,among others.http://naturalindustries.com/commercial/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=113&Itemid=106
SkyHighatrist
Member
I had a friend on a medical forum who wasnt careful with DE and did indeed hurt his lugs thought I'm not sure on the actual damage.
I've used neem cake in my soil for quite a while, that said, there remained enough fungus gnats to require another solution. Brewing the neem cake (not oil) as CT guy said on the firat page, IS effective. But smells like 11 buttholes
Gnatrol is an organic solution but rather expensive. A cheaper alternative is microbe lift. Bti for ponds and its much cheaper, treat a huge volume of water, ita a liquid.
Another, very effective, organic treatment is SNS203, made of rosemary and clove essential oils. This is quite possibly the most marked up product in a hydro store. You can make your own for under $10. If anyone is interested I can describe my process for this.
Hope that helps,
Skyhigh
I've used neem cake in my soil for quite a while, that said, there remained enough fungus gnats to require another solution. Brewing the neem cake (not oil) as CT guy said on the firat page, IS effective. But smells like 11 buttholes
Gnatrol is an organic solution but rather expensive. A cheaper alternative is microbe lift. Bti for ponds and its much cheaper, treat a huge volume of water, ita a liquid.
Another, very effective, organic treatment is SNS203, made of rosemary and clove essential oils. This is quite possibly the most marked up product in a hydro store. You can make your own for under $10. If anyone is interested I can describe my process for this.
Hope that helps,
Skyhigh
