May be switching my nutes... please help!

[MrSmokeyMacPot]

So, we are about a month into our first major outdoor grow here in NorCal.

We have 40 ladies in 150gal smartpots....

so far we have top-dressed twice with a great new product called Mr. B's GreenTrees 7-4-4... we are using the organic formula which contains the following:

Seabird Guano, Fish Meal, Kelp Meal, Bat Guano,
Fish Bone Meal, Rock Phosphate, Blood Meal, Langbeinite,
Ferrous Sulfate, Dolomite, Neem Meal, Sulfate of Potash,
Oyster Shell, Feather Meal, Greensand, Volcanic Ash, Glacial Rock Dust.

2.0 % Humic Acid (Derived from Leonardite)


yes, it is a laundry list of ingredients, and also includes about a dozen species of mycorrihzae, which cant imagine that the mycos are doing much of anything in a topdress application.

this stuff does work well at an application of 1cup per 150gal pot, but I want to try to find something more economical that will accomplish the same thing with a simpler formula..... do I really need all those minerals?

We have been feeding with this stuff about every 10 days and I pay $110 for a 40lb bucket of this stuff, which lasts about a month.

We also do ACT soil drenches weekly, with a simple recipe of just EWC and molasses. I can only aerate my tea for 24hrs on deep cycle batteries, so a longer brew is not possible.... Hence I prefer to top-dress my nutes separately in-between the ACT drenches.

Can anyone critique this nutrient and my feeding regimen and perhaps recommend something equally effective for less cost?

 

[Granger2]

You're feeding 40 150 gal for $110 per month? Are your plants doing well? If so, stay with it. I bet you will have massive production and great taste/smell if you can get enough water to them. Your cost, to me, seems reasonable, and against potential yield, small. I hope you can get a big trim crew. Good luck. -granger

 

[DJXXPLATINUM]

THE KISS METHOD IS THE CHEAPEST I KNOW OF...GH MAXI-BLOOM ..ALL A MJ PLANT NEEDS..DJ

 

[MrSmokeyMacPot]

KISS is not an option..i don't want salt-based nutrients fucking up my microlife.

Granger- that 40lb bucket has lasted me only 2 feedings ..with enough left over to feed half the garden today... today will be the 3rd feeding, after being planted for about 28 days.

 

[skullznroses]

Why not liquid nutrients? You already added lots of dry water in stuff that will help all season.

Buy a 50 gallon drum of fish fertilizer for $300 bucks and that will last a long time with a mix rate of 2-3 ounces per gallon feed water

 

[MrSmokeyMacPot]

Why not liquid nutrients? You already added lots of dry water in stuff that will help all season.

Buy a 50 gallon drum of fish fertilizer for $300 bucks and that will last a long time with a mix rate of 2-3 ounces per gallon feed water

I have a personal preference for dry nutes.... why pay for h20??

can anyone with a good organic top-dressing routine chime in here?

 

[EclipseFour20]

You can make "liquid" ferts/nutes from "dry" by using the classic formula: 1 cup of "bulk" to 1 gallon of water plus molasses (I use 15ml molasses per gallon while others may use as little as 2-5ml per gallon). Bubble like ACT for 24 hours and poof you have liquid ferts that are fresher than fresh!

Great way to use blended ferts like Dr Earth's 4-4-4 and 10-4-7...and use the "sludge" as top dressing.

Not to pop anyone's bubble, but do research how long it takes for some of the amendments on your list to become "plant available".

IMHO, incorporating an ingredient that takes 3-4 months to breakdown--before it is "plant available"--may not be the best use of my $$$. Especially when there are alternative ingredients capable of making the very same group of nutrients to be "plant available" in days/weeks--not months.

Cheers!

 

[MrSmokeyMacPot]

Eclipse... any of those ingredients in particular stand out in you mind as being slowly available?? Just curious. thanks!

 

[MrSmokeyMacPot]

You can make "liquid" ferts/nutes from "dry" by using the classic formula: 1 cup of "bulk" to 1 gallon of water plus molasses (I use 15ml per gallon while others may use as little as 2-5ml per gallon). Bubble like ACT for 24 hours and poof you have liquid ferts that are fresher than fresh!

Great way to use blended ferts like Dr Earth's 4-4-4 and 10-4-7...and use the "sludge" as top dressing.

Does this method create a liquid concentrate or can it be applied full strength as a soil drench??

 

[EclipseFour20]

Full strength...or do one better: Jack it up with things like: liquid kelp, hydrolyzed fish, sea minerals, etc.

For foliar sprays, I have a different routine--but if I did not know/have that routine, I would certainly dilute the brew by half with water and spray away on the young girls that need an extra shot!

 

[MrSmokeyMacPot]

Full strength...or do one better: Jack it up with things like: liquid kelp, hydrolyzed fish, sea minerals, etc.

For foliar sprays, I have a different routine--but if I did not know/have that routine, I would certainly dilute the brew by half with water and spray away on the young girls that need an extra shot!

would my Mr. B's be suitable for making a a liquid brew? 1 cup to 1 gallon of water, and aerate for 24hrs?

 

[MrSmokeyMacPot]

would that make some of the nutes more readily available?

 

[EclipseFour20]

Not aware of Mr Bs...but the classic recipe is very very similar to many compost teas, EWC teas and herbal teas.

That said, yes...if the comparison is "top dressing" vs "fert tea", I think the "fert tea" nutrients and fertility components would be more readily available for two simple reasons. First, water (acting as a solvent) is needed to activate the powders (waking up all the organisms and what not that have been dormant...so if the topdressing is not wet, nothing happens). Second, dry fertilizers contains an assortment of mychs, bacteria, fungi, liming components, as well as basic NPK that require WATER and TIME to be charged and active--the sooner they become wet...the sooner they start working.

Do I also use dry fertilizers in my growing medium? You bet! Take phosphorous--if it is farther than 1/4" from a plant root...it will never reach the root surface, so yeah you gotta have dry ferts mixed in the soil, not just a "top dressing".

IMHO, both dry and liquid fertility mixes are a must (and adding time release certainly does not hurt!).

 

[EclipseFour20]

double post?

 

[MrSmokeyMacPot]

Thank you Eclipse, where did this info come from? I find in very informative, just curious the source...

That being said, I have a good pre-mixed soil and the top-dressing has certainly helped, as I'm sure it will continue to as it breaks down further into the season....

I am about to brew a tea using EWC, molasses, Mexi Bat guano, liquid kelp extract and hydrolyzed fish... this should help give my ladies that dose of readily available N, among other nutrients.

As far as a readily-available dry nutrient, what would you recommend for something that breaks down reasonably fast?

How deep do you work the dry nutes into soil? I am trying to till or disturb the soil in any way as little as possible...

 

[EclipseFour20]

From a number of sources--but a good collection of data is in Table 1 from the paper titled, "Estimating N contribution from organic fertilizers and cover crop residues using online Calculators". http://smallfarms.oregonstate.edu/sites/default/files/Sullivan_et_al_2010_World_Congress_Soil_Science.pdf

The calculator is an excel spreadsheet and can be customized...but I don't use it--KISS!

BTW...a good information about Seaweed Uses and Seaweed Extract check the below pdf files. Very, very informative.

Loaded question as to how I work my nutes in the soil...I do a bit more work upfront, but coast towards the backend. I mix a specific amount of dry fertility with my basic soil, premoisten with additional amendments (silica, seaweed, sea minerals, epsom salts, yucca, etc) so that the medium is exactly 50% moist, let it sit for 24-48 hours (activate liming and fertility), then remix & fluff up the medium (to add air) and transplant.

Premoistening the grow medium allows the ph/liming agents to do their thing, insures every bit of the grow medium is moist (no dry pockets), and all dry amendments are charged. And most important, the roots are able to do their thing...not shock or transition as is the case when roots hit a dry pocket of growing medium.

For a better understanding, this pamphlet "Greenhouse Substrates and Fertilization" from NCSU explains it the premoisten concept rather well.
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/floriculture/plugs/ghsubfert.pdf. BTW, many greenhouses premoisten the soil prior to transplant (meaning the transplant soil is 50% moist)...so it is being done commercially.

Cheers!