S
SeaMaiden
When I was working aquatic import/export, we would throw some zeolite into the bags with the fish that produced the most waste, usually goldfish and koi. Why? It bonds with ammonia (NH3).
Perlite and beyond: the pros and cons of various drainage and aeration amendments
- Thread starter mad librettist
- Start date
Found this googling around. Boy it makes my head hurt. But its puts another nail in the perlite coffin for this guy.
http://krex.k-state.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/2097/720/RoseOgutu2008.pdf?sequence=1
Maybe a much smarter member can elaborate on this "sorbtion" issue that I do not understand.
http://krex.k-state.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/2097/720/RoseOgutu2008.pdf?sequence=1
Maybe a much smarter member can elaborate on this "sorbtion" issue that I do not understand.
Oregonism
Active member
Could it be all that Al+?
Just like calcined DE, high in Al and [+] form because of Al's charge.
I don't run all inorganic mixes anymore, pedo or hydro.
Success with vermi seems to correlate with less Al+ in volume.
I grabbed a bag of lava from the big box home store this weekend. Do you crush the pieces or just toss them in? They're around the size of a nickel. I tried hammering a few pieces down but it seemed pretty inefficient so I'm assuming I'll just mix it as is. Thoughts?
V
Veg N Out
Last season I mixed over 400 yards of soil for my farm, I ran some expermients where in some spots I used #2, #4 perlite blended with 3/8" cinders from a local deposit and another area with only cinders...the trenches with greenwaste compost worm castings peat and straight cinders did best...perlites gone and my wallet and lungs are stoked.
Oregonism
Active member
I agree that it should be fairly homogenized. I used to use an 1/8" and 1/4" screen and use only that material inbetween. Screen it up to 1/2" no problemo.
How about putting it into a woven plastic feed bag, maybe two, wrap up a good amount of basalt and wack it with a 10# sledge or the back of wood splitter on a hard surface....
Im sure you could rig up something with a hydraulic jack, but that's another time......
Oregonism
Active member
watch out that cinder powder will cut up your lungs and throat faster than that DE. the cinder is 80% amorphous glass. trust me. wear a mask.
Currently I have a 17gallon tough tote "bed" in my cab. Having moved and allowed myself a break I found myself without anything but bagged products as a base. I worked with some bagged "organic bed mix" and bagged compost that is of a very high quality and I have used in a pinch before. The deal is I went really thick on their compost and went to a local farm for composted horse manure. Long story short.... I used Zeolite in place of perlite or other chunkiness and I am glad I did!
The horse compost had been done in layers and not turned. Though it was 1-3yrs old and done for sure, we are in desert country and it still retained a lot of ammonia. When I water the smell is evident for sure in the run off, but the plants are healthy as hell and the soil does not smell.... I believe that the Zeolite (used LOTS) has absorbed most of it and releases it with each watering. Zeolite is used for filtering ammonia in fish tanks and has a high affinity for it. It has many other great bennies like airation, minerals, cec and so on, but this has been kind of crazy to observe.
Needless to say, I have added the other 30gallons of horse dung compost to the garden and new compost area to let it flush in the snow and irrigation before the spring.
The horse compost had been done in layers and not turned. Though it was 1-3yrs old and done for sure, we are in desert country and it still retained a lot of ammonia. When I water the smell is evident for sure in the run off, but the plants are healthy as hell and the soil does not smell.... I believe that the Zeolite (used LOTS) has absorbed most of it and releases it with each watering. Zeolite is used for filtering ammonia in fish tanks and has a high affinity for it. It has many other great bennies like airation, minerals, cec and so on, but this has been kind of crazy to observe.
Needless to say, I have added the other 30gallons of horse dung compost to the garden and new compost area to let it flush in the snow and irrigation before the spring.
good info here
DuckDuckGoose
Member
i was trying to find rice hulls locally and stumbled upon this article...
http://www.greenhousecanada.com/content/view/2512/131/
from the article...
“We were not sure whether rice hulls, as an organic component, would hold up the growth regulator,” said Roberto Lopez, a Purdue assistant professor of horticulture and co-author of a HortTechnology paper that outlined the findings. "Testing showed that there were no differences in plants grown with rice hulls or perlite."
Pansies and calibrachoa were planted in an 80/20 mix of both peat and perlite and peat and rice hulls and then treated with several different growth regulators. The plants treated with and without growth regulators and grown in peat and perlite and peat and rice hulls had similar heights and stem lengths.
now back to looking for rice hulls locally...
DDG
http://www.greenhousecanada.com/content/view/2512/131/
from the article...
“We were not sure whether rice hulls, as an organic component, would hold up the growth regulator,” said Roberto Lopez, a Purdue assistant professor of horticulture and co-author of a HortTechnology paper that outlined the findings. "Testing showed that there were no differences in plants grown with rice hulls or perlite."
Pansies and calibrachoa were planted in an 80/20 mix of both peat and perlite and peat and rice hulls and then treated with several different growth regulators. The plants treated with and without growth regulators and grown in peat and perlite and peat and rice hulls had similar heights and stem lengths.
now back to looking for rice hulls locally...
DDG
Last edited:
DuckDuckGoose
Member
interesting article that i found while trying to source rice hulls...
http://www.greenhousecanada.com/content/view/2512/131/
from the article...
“We were not sure whether rice hulls, as an organic component, would hold up the growth regulator,” said Roberto Lopez, a Purdue assistant professor of horticulture and co-author of a HortTechnology paper that outlined the findings. "Testing showed that there were no differences in plants grown with rice hulls or perlite."
Pansies and calibrachoa were planted in an 80/20 mix of both peat and perlite and peat and rice hulls and then treated with several different growth regulators. The plants treated with and without growth regulators and grown in peat and perlite and peat and rice hulls had similar heights and stem lengths.
looking for some rice hulls...trying to save some loot!
DDG
http://www.greenhousecanada.com/content/view/2512/131/
from the article...
“We were not sure whether rice hulls, as an organic component, would hold up the growth regulator,” said Roberto Lopez, a Purdue assistant professor of horticulture and co-author of a HortTechnology paper that outlined the findings. "Testing showed that there were no differences in plants grown with rice hulls or perlite."
Pansies and calibrachoa were planted in an 80/20 mix of both peat and perlite and peat and rice hulls and then treated with several different growth regulators. The plants treated with and without growth regulators and grown in peat and perlite and peat and rice hulls had similar heights and stem lengths.
looking for some rice hulls...trying to save some loot!
DDG
Last edited:
S
SeaMaiden
Pretty effin' good, though, if you effin' ask me. Nice find. I've had to contact the bulk wholesalers down in the Central Valley.
I like to use Zeolite as I have mentioned and still am, but in prepping a batch for the next bed grow, I aquired about 5-6gallons of sandstone. The chuncks range from 3/8" - 3/4". Going to screen out most stuff above the 1/2" mark. Will add it as a secondary drainage amendment.
It is very porous, not to terribly heavy and it was FREE........
It is very porous, not to terribly heavy and it was FREE........
Just want to give a tip on using perlite. Wet it before using. It'll save you from breathing it. I have a 4 cu.ft. bag made of woven plastic. I just sprinkle it with a watering can. You don't need to soak it. I just give it enough to wet it a few inches down. The remainder dries quickly and doesn't go funky. -granger
A good reference on all things amendments...is from (drum roll please...) UN's Food and Agriculture Organization (go figure!)....http://www.fao.org/hortivar/scis/doc/publ/8.pdf
Jump to the pdf file page 43...that is where the inorganic substrate discussion starts.
For those that like pumice...check out pdf file page 50 and read about its water retention properties....I used to use pumice, but no mas.
Cheers!
Jump to the pdf file page 43...that is where the inorganic substrate discussion starts.
For those that like pumice...check out pdf file page 50 and read about its water retention properties....I used to use pumice, but no mas.
Cheers!
Problem i have with silvaperl is the very narrow range in which its aids aeration before becomeing too porous.
With a current batch of peat based compost its 15% by volume for a perfect mix , an extra handfull makes it far too free draining for use and a little less does nothing usefull.
A commercial compost brand in the UK makes advertiseing ploy from the perlite content but has only about 3% by volume and is just marketing.
Sivaperl in 100 litre packs is usually cheaper from a builders merchants here as its used in flue liner backfill and lightweight concretes and foundry work , two grades available , fine and chunky , USA export in yellow and white sacks.
The hydro shops buy it from them and double the price.
With a current batch of peat based compost its 15% by volume for a perfect mix , an extra handfull makes it far too free draining for use and a little less does nothing usefull.
A commercial compost brand in the UK makes advertiseing ploy from the perlite content but has only about 3% by volume and is just marketing.
Sivaperl in 100 litre packs is usually cheaper from a builders merchants here as its used in flue liner backfill and lightweight concretes and foundry work , two grades available , fine and chunky , USA export in yellow and white sacks.
The hydro shops buy it from them and double the price.
TradingBeanz
Member
Could someone please help me with some ratio's?
Could someone please help me with some ratio's?
Hey guys, Very interesting thread. I have been onto a similar line of thinking myself utilising organic material to help bring out a better taste.
If someone can help me with advice for ratio's I would really appreciate it.
I will be using coco coir, worm castings, and some clay balls at the bottom, I am used to this.
This time I have bought a bag of diatomite, the big 20 kg bag of a similar size as perlite. I had been told I could use this in the same manner as perlite. Is this correct? I understand that the microbial growth will be a lot better.
I also bought volcanic rock fertiliser and a silica soil amendment but I have read conflicting things about ph. levels when using these products. The product's name is Purasil.
Any help will be greatly appreciated. I have been moving closer and closer to organic, I have had worms still living in my pots at the end of each harvest! I was absolutely amazed. Even after a summer that was a scorcher the worm farm was existent in each pot from the use of the castings!
I wish to build on this whole grow style as last grow was fantastic. Every aspect of the grow was organic bar the base nutes, H & G Cocos, and the perlite in the medium! That is why I want to go with the diatomite.
I have the diatomite, not the fine earth. I also have the earth as I mix it with sand and add it to the top of my medium (the fungus gnats hate it, they die and come back over and over until about two weeks before harvest. Then they disappear. I hate fungus gnats and hope to control them with the diatoms in the different porosities.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks guys.
Could someone please help me with some ratio's?
Hey guys, Very interesting thread. I have been onto a similar line of thinking myself utilising organic material to help bring out a better taste.
If someone can help me with advice for ratio's I would really appreciate it.
I will be using coco coir, worm castings, and some clay balls at the bottom, I am used to this.
This time I have bought a bag of diatomite, the big 20 kg bag of a similar size as perlite. I had been told I could use this in the same manner as perlite. Is this correct? I understand that the microbial growth will be a lot better.
I also bought volcanic rock fertiliser and a silica soil amendment but I have read conflicting things about ph. levels when using these products. The product's name is Purasil.
Any help will be greatly appreciated. I have been moving closer and closer to organic, I have had worms still living in my pots at the end of each harvest! I was absolutely amazed. Even after a summer that was a scorcher the worm farm was existent in each pot from the use of the castings!
I wish to build on this whole grow style as last grow was fantastic. Every aspect of the grow was organic bar the base nutes, H & G Cocos, and the perlite in the medium! That is why I want to go with the diatomite.
I have the diatomite, not the fine earth. I also have the earth as I mix it with sand and add it to the top of my medium (the fungus gnats hate it, they die and come back over and over until about two weeks before harvest. Then they disappear. I hate fungus gnats and hope to control them with the diatoms in the different porosities.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks guys.
The diatomite should work well.
I'd get rid of the clay balls in the bottom, or just mix them in the soil.
http://www.todayshomeowner.com/garden-myth-putting-gravel-in-pots-and-containers/.
I'd get rid of the clay balls in the bottom, or just mix them in the soil.
http://www.todayshomeowner.com/garden-myth-putting-gravel-in-pots-and-containers/.
