Broad Mites?

[SooperSmurph]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0261219407002530

Acaricidal efficacy of neem against Polyphagotarsonemus latus (Banks) (Acari: Tarsonemidae)

Abstract

The broad mite, Polyphagotarsonemus latus, is one of the most serious pests attacking chilli pepper in Brazil. Aiming to offer an additional tool to be used for its control, we tested the acaricidal effect of neem, Azadirachta indica, on P. latus. Chilli pepper seedlings were sprayed with neem seed extract (NeemAzal T/S, 1% of azadiractin) at concentrations of 0.05, 0.10, 0.15 and 0.20 g a.i./l, with abamectin 1.8% (Vertimec 18 CE) and with water. Adult females of P. latus were transferred to each treated plant and after 6 d, the instantaneous rate of increase (ri) was calculated. All mites on plants treated with abamectin died without ovipositing before the end of the experiment. The ri for P. latus decreased linearly with increasing neem concentration, with the population growth rate becoming negative when mites were exposed to plants treated with neem at concentrations higher than 0.13 g a.i/l.

Translation: In a refined neem product like Azamax (.35g/fluid oz Azadirachtin) a dosage rate of at least 12mls / liter is required to send Broad Mites into a state of negative population growth.

I recomend slightly higher rates (2 fluid oz or 60mls / gallon, 15.75 mls / liter).

 

[bubbler720]

Update from the broad mite front. My plants in coco really dont like all this spraying, theres some burning and droopy leaves but the medium is wet. It's weird the plants in coco were the least effected before the spraying. My plants in a 60/40 ffof, perlite mix are doing better. I'm not even cutting the bleach anymore, scrubbing with straight bleach. If you do this make sure you dont take your goggles off for even a minute, I did and I can say I wont make that mistake again. Obviously you should also wear a respirator. My tacoing leaves do seem to be correcting, also the clawed leaves seem to be straightening out. Next forbid app is sunday or monday, probably monday due to the burning and I'll do it as soon as the lights go out. Last time I did it in the middle of the dark period and that might be why there's some burning, IDK, dont really care either I just want death and destruction. Have a good weekend!

I also found burnt/damaged leaves after spraying my hydro/rockwool ladies. In my experience once leaves that have already been heavily damaged by BM's are sprayed, those leaves shrivel/die right away. Plants/leaves showing vigorous growth keep on that track after spraying.

How long did you wait between Forbid sprays?

 

[whatthe215]

i have a feeling that Forbid can cause heat sensitivity in some strains... perhaps washing the Forbid off with another non-posion foliar spray would help.

 

[bubbler720]

question: plants in veg that looked like crap infected with BM's a month ago, treated with forbid+avid+neem+azamax, came back to life, vigorous new growth, looked great... and now once kicked, stunt out / go into dud mode.

any insights?

 

[greekgardner]

question: plants in veg that looked like crap infected with BM's a month ago, treated with forbid+avid+neem+azamax, came back to life, vigorous new growth, looked great... and now once kicked, stunt out / go into dud mode.

any insights?

OH GOD.............

 

[bubbler720]

question: plants in veg that looked like crap infected with BM's a month ago, treated with forbid+avid+neem+azamax, came back to life, vigorous new growth, looked great... and now once kicked, stunt out / go into dud mode.

any insights?

To add detail: Just completed scoping huge sample of leaves: clones, veg, flower. Eggs are still just about everywhere. Few dead adult BMs, 1 in 10 leaves. I'm 3.5 weeks past my first Forbid spray (followed by avid / spinosad / neem / azamax). I'm ready to run that cycle again for veg ladies, but this time with Conserve SC spinosad - not Monteray). Also, for those ladies in wk 3 flower stunted and sad, run trip action neem

 

[eric2028]

my swirski mite satchets are not cutting it. starting to see bm damage 12 days after applying satchets. does anyone have any experience with phantom termiticide? I d appreciate some feedback guys

 

[GK1]

Be very careful with repeat Forbid applications. The symptoms of Forbid toxicity are EXACTLY the same as mite damage....rams horn curl to leaves. It takes a couple weeks to work through the toxin that has been injected by the mites.....have you started using 325mg/gal aspirin? Do it now if not. It helps woth the toxin. I mistook the lingering effects of toxin as needing more forbid which caused Forbid toxicity and I lost the entire veg crop. Keep in mind that Forbid has a 4-10 day knockdown so is prob not the best choice for a bad infestation. Be careful with a second forbid application.

Update from the broad mite front. My plants in coco really dont like all this spraying, theres some burning and droopy leaves but the medium is wet. It's weird the plants in coco were the least effected before the spraying. My plants in a 60/40 ffof, perlite mix are doing better. I'm not even cutting the bleach anymore, scrubbing with straight bleach. If you do this make sure you dont take your goggles off for even a minute, I did and I can say I wont make that mistake again. Obviously you should also wear a respirator. My tacoing leaves do seem to be correcting, also the clawed leaves seem to be straightening out. Next forbid app is sunday or monday, probably monday due to the burning and I'll do it as soon as the lights go out. Last time I did it in the middle of the dark period and that might be why there's some burning, IDK, dont really care either I just want death and destruction. Have a good weekend!

 

[Storm Shadow]

Once they dud...unless they are genetics you cannot live without....you should toss em and start over...

Phantom works just like Pylon.... I didn't get any phytotoxicity from it..

Are you guys using distilled/RO water with Indicate 5 or something similar when using Forbid? Its very important not to forget the Indicate 5 ..its not just a wetting agent like coco wet or yucca ...

I recently mixed Phantom with Lambda-cyhalothrin 9.7% and Saw Zero phytotoxicity ...again I used RO/Distilled Water with the Indicate 5...

At this point....Im using 8 different MOA's on these bastards and loving every harvest again

 

[Some old dude]

My results

My results

As stated by others, in my personal experience Judo/Forbid is the best. However it's was harsh on plants when I used too much and too often. I found 1 ml per gallon light covering (not soaked) and then ten days later another spray. And was BM free for nine months. No other Toxins. Just the Judo/Forbid. Some people get bent and out of control because they don't understand the MOA and the recovery rate from the initial toxins in the plants take more time than people are allowing and aspirin does indeed help But "Moderation in everything" is what worked for me. The swirskii's work best after you knock them down with forbid or even azatrol or some foliar that works to slow them down > Then the swirskii's do work I like to use them in second half of flower especially. But they will protect your mothers if given a fighting chance. This has been my experience yours may vary.Also, if you understand how the heat treatment works (most people fry there plants cause they do it wrong) it will kill all bugs and eggs in the entire room in "one single hour".I would add that Foliar sprays like Neem ,Azatrol, azamax,any oil based spray will require a 100% coverage and "soak" to work. (I used to hang my plants upside down on a contraption I made that was attacked to the wall ) to soak the undersides of leaves...lol -no more of that mess.

 

[bubbler720]

Once they dud...unless they are genetics you cannot live without....you should toss em and start over...

Phantom works just like Pylon.... I didn't get any phytotoxicity from it..

Are you guys using distilled/RO water with Indicate 5 or something similar when using Forbid? Its very important not to forget the Indicate 5 ..its not just a wetting agent like coco wet or yucca ...

I recently mixed Phantom with Lambda-cyhalothrin 9.7% and Saw Zero phytotoxicity ...again I used RO/Distilled Water with the Indicate 5...

At this point....Im using 8 different MOA's on these bastards and loving every harvest again

Storm: yeah everytime mixing/spraying with RO and indicate (except on triple neem apps) . My first forbid was 3.5 weeks ago which proceeded with +3 days avid +3 days spiosad (monterray, I'm switching to Conserve) + 2 days trip neem + 2days azamax at only 30ml/gal - upping to 60ml/gal. yes on aspirin and heat treatments

still seeing bunches of eggs on all plants, also on dipped clones (forbid+avid dip). and some dead adults.

i'm ready to begin another round of forbid/ avid/ conserve/ neem/ azamax. i'd like to have a look at your 8 part MOA recipe

from deep in the trenches where losing is not an option -- much thanks as always

 

[SooperSmurph]

Once they dud...unless they are genetics you cannot live without....you should toss em and start over...

This I don't particularly agree with, unless certain strains suffer permanent genetic mutations due to BM toxin, but in my experience plants that are given proper treatment and proper nutrition will recover. Perhaps this is part of starting treatment early in an infestation, but my Blue Dreams were suffering the worst of all my strains, and they've almost completely recovered with consistent repeat veg area sprays combined with silica and aspirin in their water.

I do admit that every strain is different, some genetics may be weaker and more prone to mutation than others, but I can't see a simple toxin outliving the creature that produced it for years in a fast growing species like Cannabis.

 

[SooperSmurph]

Storm: yeah everytime mixing/spraying with RO and indicate (except on triple neem apps) . My first forbid was 3.5 weeks ago which proceeded with +3 days avid +3 days spiosad (monterray, I'm switching to Conserve) + 2 days trip neem + 2days azamax at only 30ml/gal - upping to 60ml/gal. yes on aspirin and heat treatments

still seeing bunches of eggs on all plants, also on dipped clones (forbid+avid dip). and some dead adults.

i'm ready to begin another round of forbid/ avid/ conserve/ neem/ azamax. i'd like to have a look at your 8 part MOA recipe

from deep in the trenches where losing is not an option -- much thanks as always

To warn you, that high dosage of Azadirachtin is going to be a bit harsher than you're used to with traditional doses of neem products, you may experience some leaf curling / crisping, especially if you spray too close to when the lights come on. I'd recommend doing the high dose neem right when your lights shut off in veg, so they have a good 6 hours for the spray to dry / run off.

 

[Storm Shadow]

This I don't particularly agree with, unless certain strains suffer permanent genetic mutations due to BM toxin, but in my experience plants that are given proper treatment and proper nutrition will recover. Perhaps this is part of starting treatment early in an infestation, but my Blue Dreams were suffering the worst of all my strains, and they've almost completely recovered with consistent repeat veg area sprays combined with silica and aspirin in their water.

I do admit that every strain is different, some genetics may be weaker and more prone to mutation than others, but I can't see a simple toxin outliving the creature that produced it for years in a fast growing species like Cannabis.

6 different strains... over the course of 2 1/2 years never grew normal again.... There are strains that will not recover...this is just not my exp...but of many others... Blue Dream is a plant you can dump bleach on and still make it grow and yield huge...

You will not have this luck on OG'z and if you've ever grown Sour Dubble you'd have a better idea of what Im saying...

Once they DUD toss em...not worth the money...time...effort...

 

[Storm Shadow]

Sirroco (AVID + Flroamite)
Forbid
Conserve SC
Sulfur
Triple Action Neem
Pylon
Lambda-cyhalothrin

No Broad Mite can survive this...not even the SUPER BM's from P.O.

Those P.O. BM's are the worst ones...way harder to kill off

 

[SooperSmurph]

6 different strains... over the course of 2 1/2 years never grew normal again.... There are strains that will not recover...this is just not my exp...but of many others... Blue Dream is a plant you can dump bleach on and still make it grow and yield huge...

You will not have this luck on OG'z and if you've ever grown Sour Dubble you'd have a better idea of what Im saying...

Once they DUD toss em...not worth the money...time...effort...

I agree, Blue Dream is usually hardy as fuck, but in my case they showed the most sensitivity of any of my 17 strains (White Berry had more mutant leaves but fewer deadened nodes), displaying the worst and longest lasting symptoms.

Strains like SSSDH and Smurphberry Jam (NL x BB S2) got away with minimal damage, if any, usually just occasional abnormal leaf growth with few if any dead nodes.

Broadmites are known for their inconsistencies, but I was only spraying Pyrethrins and low dose Azadirachtin for many months before detecting this issue, so barring insane luck on the part of a few individual plants, I think pretty much all my plants were infected before amping up the neem and transferring the worst plants to a secondary location for heavy sprays.

I can't personally speak to seeing OGs recover in my grow, I currently don't run any, but I know a friend with White Fire OG and Tahoe OG that are responding well to treatment now that he's been given the heads up.

 

[Bmerlot]

Im battling these Broad Mites as well. Took me 3 weeks to figure out what was going on. 3 Days ago I treated my moms by spraying Forbid at 3ml per gallon. I didn't have Indicate 5 at that time.

Today I cut off almost 12" of the deformed growth followed by submerging them in a 5gallon bucket of Avid at 2.5mls per gallon mixed with indicate 5.

I just ordered Pylon and should be here in four days. Just in time for 3rd application.

My goal now is to sanitize the rooms inside and out so these little bastards dont show back up...

So Besides heat treating, physan 20 and bleach. What other options do I have to kill any thing thats possibly laying around? I have noticed pylon makes a TR bomb. Has anybody had success with these total release sprays?

 

[Some old dude]

The Beast

The Beast

Im battling these Broad Mites as well. Took me 3 weeks to figure out what was going on. 3 Days ago I treated my moms by spraying Forbid at 3ml per gallon. I didn't have Indicate 5 at that time.

Today I cut off almost 12" of the deformed growth followed by submerging them in a 5gallon bucket of Avid at 2.5mls per gallon mixed with indicate 5.

I just ordered Pylon and should be here in four days. Just in time for 3rd application.

My goal now is to sanitize the rooms inside and out so these little bastards dont show back up...

So Besides heat treating, physan 20 and bleach. What other options do I have to kill any thing thats possibly laying around? I have noticed pylon makes a TR bomb. Has anybody had success with these total release sprays?

This is just my personal opinion. You don't kill "The Beast". you can however manage "The beast". The beast lives on your clothes , dog.cat, grass lawn outside bushes ,trees, can hitch ride on a fly from the next block over. Egg's can float on the wind for hundreds of yards. You can keep you grow clean. You can "prevent defense" by using whatever means chems, predators, heat, aspirin (for the toxic effects)..I actually thought I was rid of them after nine months I kept clean , I did not bring in any clones (grew from seed) I threw away all old hydro equipment, scrubbed eveything with bleach and h202 (separately)...They will always come back you can spray toxins everywhere and they may leave your grow alone if your soaking your plants on a regular basis. But they are at your door or property line waiting for the opportunity to hitch a ride on the wind or an animal or fly.The few people I know who actually tried moving far away to the country and start clean could not outrun "The Beast".When I go to my local "grow store" for supplies I have an extra pair of flip-flops in the bed of my truck ,I make sure my pant legs are not dragging on the floor and I wear medical gloves.Anything that needs this much soaking of toxins to keep a "Strong residual affect" (And that is exactly what it takes) I'll pass that bowl.Good luck, and all the very best.

 

[sunset limited]

^^^not trying to stir the pot or anything but is it possible that the reason you have been unable to eradicate this pest is because you have been treating habitually with one miticide rather than adopting a proven protocol which includes rotating chemicals? just a passing thought from a guy who was working as a regular old nurseryman since before prop 215.

 

[EclipseFour20]

If one combines Neem Oil with Azatrol/Azamax, then the effectiveness of azadirachtin improves by 20% or so.
If one combines oil (neem) with abamectin (Avid), then the effectiveness of abamectin increases significantly.
If one combines PBO with Azatrol/Azamax, then the active ingredient azadirachtin will have longer staying ability on the leaf.
If one adds a bit of pyrethrins to the mix, then an additional mode of action is obtained.

Try this recipe for 1gal:
0.75 ml of Avid/Quali-pro (generic version at half the price or so)
7.5 ml neem oil
7.5 ml Azamax/Azatrol
2.5 ml Riptide (5% pyrethrin + 25% PBO)
7.5 ml Hydrolized fish
0.5 gram Urea
2.5 ml Blue Agave
2.5 ml coco wet

Spray the plant until it is dripping and repeat every 10 days or so while in veg. If you have PM and use Eagle20, go ahead and add 1ml of Eagle to the mix, it is compatible.

The best affordable sprayer I found to obtain full plant saturation with little waste, is a "low pressure, low velocity" paint sprayer that requires an air compressor. Spraying the girls with 20-25 PSI probably blows off a few of the lil shits from the leaf undersides.

Two treatments in my veg and all Broad Mites were annihilated--each plant was sprayed 200% and nothing was left untouched. Not saying the broad mites in my garden were of the same high quality of Progressive Options'...but the lil buggers did fuck up my early $ummer harve$t--got to work harder and smarter now!

Good to have a humming veg/flower without broad mites, fungus gnats, root aphids, etc.

Cheers!

PS check out the Mite articles written by my buddy Raymond Cloyd.
http://www.gpnmag.com/sites/default/files/mite-b-gone1.pdf
http://www.oardc.ohio-state.edu/floriculture/images/10-10_Mites.pdf

On Edit: Tip on mixing oils--think salad dressing oil/vinegar emulsion. I use glass mason jar, fill half full with water, add oils (and include all "cides" as well), seal, and shake like a mutha. The solution will emulsify and is easily mixed with rest of gallon spray solution with simple stirring.