Complex Question About F2'ing Polys

[HidingInTheHaze]

Hello, I have a somewhat complex question about F2'ing unstable poly hybrids.

I would like to know if it is possible to find a certain phenotype expression from poly hybrid parents from a strain with lots of variation that do not match the characteristics I am looking for.

And example might look like this

F2'ing Strain 1

The phenotype I am looking for we will call X1, which meets a certain set of criteria.

Now the parents I have on hand are 2 females and 1 male from Strain 1, each one representing a different pheno that does not match X1 in any way. I will call them Female 1, Female 2 and Male 1

Is it possible to find an X1 phenotype out of a breeding of

Female 1 x Male 1
Female 2 x Male 1


Or would I have to be using an X1 pheno to be able to find an X1 pheno in the progeny?

 

[PWF]

depends on inheritability of your target trait.
heterozogynous means it is recessive which maybe what is happening here. the best bet is open those f3 and keep looking. i havent had much luck doing this but it depends on the trait. one of my plants passes into a second outcross so that tells me it is dominant but on another variety that is ibl'd i can get stalky phenos from the shorty pheno and vice versa. it would be a good idea to consider a backcross to your sport to try and set the trait. this will unlock other traits that youve maybe not even seen yet.
sounds like you have a good plan though.
peace,
pwf

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

Thanks for your reply.

It could be a tall order shooting for 2 or 3 specific traits, but at least the seed wont cost me anything to look thru.

 

[WelderDan]

Make and grow out as many seeds as you can. It's a numbers game. The more you have to choose from the better your chances. The traits you want may only express one in a hundred, or one in a thousand. As PWF stated, backcrossing may help fix some traits. But, it may also fix unwanted traits. You won't know unless you try.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

I actually cant back cross because I don't have the X1 pheno I am looking for. I had it years ago but it is long gone now, so my hope would be to find something. What brought this about was I had 3 seeds left from the pack, so I figured I would F2 them anyhow and hope I can find some quicker flowering pheno's made from longer flowering parents.

 

[gloryoskie]

I would, if you are so inclined, self the females first to
help selection. Lots of info available on this site about selfing.

You can also do the pollen thing, but I believe exploring the
female plants through selfing could provide a direct approach.

Takes less generations and you're not introducing potential
goober traits from the male.

 

[Tom Hill]

HiTh, I am not sure I understand the question and gather that you are likely not using the term polyhybrid correctly,, but then okay, how do you even go to the F2 of a polyhybrid?

I'll take a shot in the dark though and say yes, if what you are looking for is in the genetic history of the line/s, then you stand a chance of seeing it again upon recombination.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

Using SSH, I thought that was a poly?

That's basically what I was asking, just had a hard time explaining.

Yes, banking on family history to produce some traits not present in the parents. Like pulling 11 week tight bud phenos, from parents that might go 13-14 wks and have loose flower structure.

I would think these would be the recessive traits? I have done a bit of chucking with this strain before and the plants I have grown from the crosses have produced some wacky shit, unlike either parent.

 

[Tom Hill]

most people here use the term incorrectly and it goes back to overgrow and guys like Vic and so forth. The term is confused with a plant doomed to recombination issues due to many parental inputs. But the simple meaning of polyhybrid is this. If you happen to be looking at more than 2 traits, while you are evaluating a plant, you're looking at a polyhybrid, regardless of how many outside contributions in said plant recent pedigree. A stone cold F1, or even inbred line, can be and are polyhybrid, it all depends on how many traits we are following, and nothing more.

 

[PWF]

maybe in corn
cannabis, even an old farmed line, will have variations which we are calling phenos.
environment, available nutrients etc will affect expression.

 

[Tom Hill]

yes, as long as 11 week tight bud phenotypes are not ancient history in said line, you will see these traits upon recombination of those genes. Recessive is another misused term.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

Ah good to know, I have searched around but never came up with a good definition for it. They exist, Im just trying to coax them out with out spending an arm and a leg on another pack. Figured I would work with what I have and try to make the best of it for now.

I was a little put off at first when my last remaining plants didn't suit my needs, this gives me some motivation to move forward with the F2's.

 

[gloryoskie]

Okay, I get it now. Damn, shits confusing at times.