Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[Illumination]

Please update, otherwise its really confusing.

Yes it is very confusing if you do not read the thread. It is not if you read it as it will show all the new developments as they occur. Or would you like a listing and all the info in one post to make it easy for you?
Then do it if you want it or stay confused. No one is trying to sell you anything here so cater to your own needs.

If you read the thread you will be very well informed and confusion will disappear. No one is going to write you a synopsis because you do not want to read.

 

[Illumination]

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Beautiful Azeo

 

[Fonzarelli]

Got the elite agro's running now in place of the 860. The Agro's are really nice, but I bet adding a 250w HPS to them would really make for some dense meds.

 

[Fonzarelli]

Agro's have a near perfect spectrum. Only wish they were a bit less blue.

 

[psyphish]

Agro's have a near perfect spectrum. Only wish they were a bit less blue.

They have the most red out of any bulb, how are they too blue?

 

[senor coconut]

Got the elite agro's running now in place of the 860. The Agro's are really nice, but I bet adding a 250w HPS to them would really make for some dense meds.

At this point woudn't be better using a single 600W HPS? For a little 35W addition you'll get 90k Lumens, 30K more than using 250HPS+315CMH, a better spectrum is not everything.... also light intensity plays an important role
I think CMHs are more suited for quite small setips, I would like to see a comparison between a 315W Agro and 250W HPS, lumen outputs are about the same, in theory I would expect a similar yield but more quality buds on the CMH side, I am right?

 

[MEnSouRdeeZ]

senor, I cannot cite this information, but from what I have read and from anecdotal evidence, the 315w (41521-6) would more likely challenge a 400w hps in yield. watt for watt a 600w hps doesn't perform as well as two 315w, unless you are running a Gavita or double ended hps making 1900+ ppf even then the 315w will be on par or better, as it produces 2100+ppf. 1900+ppf hps lamps are just as pricey as this new superior cmh, also patients have spoken and cmh bud is superior to hps alone, hps is best suited to supplement diffuse daylight in greenhouse apps. the retro white was not designed to challenge hps or horti bulbs, this one is and does, also I cannot imagine why anyone would want less blue in this lamp?

 

[unthing]

agro puts more light and is relativily more efficient, better challenge would be the 205w model againt 250w hps. if you had, for example led lamp that just emits monochromatic green light you could have efficiency of 300-500 lumens per watt since lumens are adjusted according to frequency, green-yellow having the highest rates.

 

[Fonzarelli]

They have the most red out of any bulb, how are they too blue?

They have a lot of deep red 670nm which doesn't change the overall hue of the light emitted to the same degree 630nm would or around there. Honestly I don't understand how they can get away labeling them 3000k because it looks more like 4000k.

Adding some HPS would give the Agros a nice boost in the more effective RQE zone(620-645nm) which is the same peak in sunlight itself. This in turn would really dense up the flowers along with making some real nice quality meds from all the blue light in the Agro spectrum. There is a ton of blue wavelength from 390-485nm in the Agro's which will create a bit of a density dilemma.

It's no problem if ya add some HPS light in there.

I have no doubts that the Agro's are more useful than the old 400w retro whites in a morphogenetical sense. I noticed the flowers intiating quite a bit faster. But density will not improve over the 400w RW's because of the immense amount of blue light in them.

It's all about relative intensity and balance within the spectrum. A light source can have as much red and deep red as you want, but if it's improperly balanced out with extra blue light the flowers will not be as dense as HPS, higher quality(higher THC and fragrance) yes, but dense no and super leafy yes which isn't super great IMO!

Leaves=chlorophyll, Chlorophyll=bad taste.

 

[tenthirty]

I'm not seeing an increase in leafiness with,
pre 98 bubba, alien dawg, Fucking incredible( should be called "good"), and
pak diesel.

My buddy has a 2k hps grow running the same strains that I am fortunate enough to compare against.

What I am seeing is,
Improved frost and IMHO nicer fragrance, maybe a little better effect.

The one thing is increased vigor and health, nutrient sensitivity and deficiencies are far less running indica and sativa strains in the same table and nutes.

At 35w sq ft, same yield as 50w sq ft of hps.

Buds, are larger than hps, maybe not quite as dense, kinda strain dependent. Could be other factors, co2 sealed grow vs fresh air, different VPD's etc.

The agro bulbs, in the cycloptics reflectors do work very well,
less power, less heat, lower power bills, and good results.
What's not to like? other than they weren't cheap.

 

[psyphish]

At this point woudn't be better using a single 600W HPS? For a little 35W addition you'll get 90k Lumens, 30K more than using 250HPS+315CMH, a better spectrum is not everything.... also light intensity plays an important role
I think CMHs are more suited for quite small setips, I would like to see a comparison between a 315W Agro and 250W HPS, lumen outputs are about the same, in theory I would expect a similar yield but more quality buds on the CMH side, I am right?

My 250w Retro White CMH out yielded my 250w HPS, everytime. The quality was just better on every run.

 

[psyphish]

Honestly I don't understand how they can get away labeling them 3000k because it looks more like 4000k.

The Agro is obviously 3000K. My gf's first words seeing the 315w CMH after I replaced the 400w Retro White, were "Oh.. so orange".

 

[acidking]

Anybody know a source for 120v ballasts that run the Philips 315w Agro? Preferably preassembled, all I can seem to find, through hours of Google-fu, are 200-277v ballasts.

 

[acidking]

I've just secured a supply of digital low freq. 120vac 315w Elite ballasts. I'll be getting one sometime soon to test it out. The company is also in development of a very high freq ballast for the cosmo/elite bulb line up. Turns out that what GEL/DNA has isn't anything special anymore.

Greenthumb14,

Where did you find the low frequency 120vac digital ballasts for the 315w Philips? I've been googling for days and I can't find anything but the 200-277v ballasts. How much did they run you, and have you had a chance to try them out yet?

Thanks in advance.

 

[paperchaser825]

Not sure if you guys have seen, but Sun System has started selling all in one CMH setups. Not sure if I should post links so I will leave it at that and let Google do the messenger work for me. Seems you guys were right on the money with the 315w stuffs. I'm not a regular reader on this thread, though I do take great interest in how the CMH tech is coming along. Would like to say thanks to all those who did hands on research with this stuff as well.

 

[psyphish]

So far I'm not impressed by the standard 930 bulb. It's doing a lot worse in veg than the 400w Retro White. I hope it'll do better in flower. Still considering buying the Daylight bulb for veg.

 

[diseasedmind]

anyone try this ballast with the Philips 860 bulb? http://www.accendoelectronics.com/GloGreen-Digital-HID-Ballast-Fixture-Products.shtml

look under one ballast many solutions, It claims it can run CMH bulbs

 

[Stoogots]

So far I'm not impressed by the standard 930 bulb. It's doing a lot worse in veg than the 400w Retro White. I hope it'll do better in flower. Still considering buying the Daylight bulb for veg.

the 930 bulb is the agro one...the 942 bulb looks like the sun!

 

[psyphish]

the 930 bulb is the agro one...the 942 bulb looks like the sun!

Do you have experience on both bulbs? Which one would you say was the best for plants overall?


[edit] One thing that is really bothering me is, that my trichome production is a lot lower with the 315w 930 bulb as opposed to the 250w retro white. Before switching to the 315w my plants had a lot of trichomes in veg, but now it's early flowering and I'm not seeing ANY trichomes. I'm starting to regret buying the 315w CDM.

 

[MEnSouRdeeZ]

I wonder why people use the 930. I'm no expert but I would only use the 942, part number 41521-6. The "930" is 23807-1 and is just plain the wrong bulb. The philips rep tried to sell me on the 23807 but that is clearly not the same bulb used by cycloptics/Utah state nor is it the one with the agro designation based on what I've read. The "942" (41521-6) is now being called a greenpower lamp. The other one is not... Shouldn't be hard to figure out...
I can forward my correspondence with philips or the spec sheets with SPDs of both to any interested party. The 930 spectrum is hard to differentiate from an enhanced hps. The 942 has much greater deep red output.