Time Has arrived:Switching to organics..need advice!

[greenmatter]

springtails,doodlebugs and centipedes are things you should get use to if you are serious about organics.

if it is not eating your plants then it is probably helping your plants in some way. let them do their job

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

^^^^
Crazy to think wars have literally been fought over guano.

On the EWC topic...I like to take well aged compost from my backyard pass it through 1/2inch screen and then add it to my worm bins. A month or two or whatever later, I pass the EWC from the worm bins through 1/4" screen. This separates the best vermicompost from the worms (90% of em anyway). If need be I'll use shitty bagged compost much the same way, except, I'll add a little of whatever is around. Maybe a few banana peels or a couple handfuls of dandelions or alfalfa, some rock dusts and some kelp. Not talking much here...a pint or so of food for them ...usually run it through a blender first if time is an issue.

 

[dreadlock]

damn! this happen to anyone .. keep loosing long messages after pc times out?

makes sense now guys. had a look the plants are just fine. Springtails send their love lol say hello to my little friends so many otherwise i would have named them..i deff grew some balls in the process last night.. was so close to waging war on them.

there some AN iguana juice & mother earth tea i can continue feeding keeping it organic till anything shows up.. it's all good fun with you guys around & part of learning anyway.

back to the good stuff.. plan was to go for 19 liter buckets? not 100% sure yet. could go bigger? 19 liters would suit hempy/hydro where as soil roots prob require more right? I tend to veg for 7 weeks into 1.5' x1.5' modular screens leaving lower growth and simply removing the screen after the stretch to get the shape and even canopy, around 3 ft tall. Problem lies with the room height which is restricted to one side so have to keep them short and bushy to make the most! feel like any bucket to big will not be used to it's full potential?

lava rock sounds like a great addition, also acts as a catalyst for micros i think. Should provide good aeration for big buckets especially.. sure they will like it! I'll keep it mind when deciding bucket size

in a way i'm glad to have guano of the menu, lot's of issues behind it.. the idea that wars have been fought over is truly crazy, not surprising one bit.. trade must be worth allot of money!!

going to be making fresh cannabis juice soon..brilliant! will have decent amounts of left over fruit material.. think you guys know where that's going

looks like it's that time to get the reading glasses on..

 

[John Deere]

19 litres = 5 gallons (according to the online conversion I found) so that should work fine. But yes, larger is typically better. Rubbermaid totes are popular because they're about the same height but much larger volume. Large smartpots work great, too. The 20 gallon geopots I use are shorter than the plastic buckets I used to use.

 

[xmobotx]

i like to think of 5 gallons as the "biggest of the small pots" 3 gallon {~11 ltr} is what i use for my 'micro living soil' and the smallest you want to go when practicing no-till

iow; 5 gal is suitable

lots of folks make do w/ a compost based mix ~probably the best of amendments would be neem; kelp and; crab meal

watch out for over-complicating ~it seems to be kind of a natural reflex

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

In one of my rooms I'm rocking 3gal containers right now. 12 plants per 600w. Everything is fine, but I wouldn't recommend it on my first run at it. I had to fill the room quick, due to shitty timing on my part. I'm in the process of building some large 4'x4'x16" containers that are going to hold 125-150gallons per 600w. I'm using 2x4's, chicken wire, and landscape fabric.

 

[xmobotx]

shit; based on that RD ~i freq end up running 1 gal for lack of space and they do pretty good too/but they arent no-till ~still ROLS though!

 

[BugJar]

very little of it ever gets sold.

For good reason......

have you had personal bad experiences with guano?

I have had good results with it in my own garden by using it as an amendment and teas.

Perhaps you could explain your opinion to the less experienced.

*edit* other than the health concerns in breathing the dust

 

[gloryoskie]

If you must use guano, respirator or at least a dust mask are recommended.

"I grow everything we need on a farm using only worm compost and compost tea. This is a perfect alternative, as is homemade or purchased thermophylic compost. I have never once used bat guano." Microbeman.

From this here thread:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=106103

 

[BugJar]

I personally wear a respirator any time I am mixing anything with fine dust. my advice would be the same to anyone.

 

[FunTimesIndeed]

Aside from being of almost zero interest outside of the tomato growing club, there are the ramifications from a conservationist perspective...

 

[BugJar]

It is certainly true that there are some sustainability issues but I still use peat too personally so I guess I can't front about being the most cautious with those types of things

I am beginning to think that I am more choosy about what I eat then what I grow with, something for consideration I suppose.

 

[xmobotx]

FTI hits the nail on the head

as mentioned there have been wars fought over bat guano

further the mining of it destroys the habitat of the bats which generate it

many folks are trending towards gardening sustainably vs feeding the marketing giant

PEAT has its concerns too but @ least for us in the PNW the peat is likely not going too far or being fought over/not so sure on sustainably harvested though ~its a valid point

better is better

 

[BugJar]

At the risk of sounding combative ( not at all my intent BTW )

until we all Drive an electric car and all our electricity is sourced from solar or wind personal accountability in the Environmental impact of Guano harvesting seems petty. That does not excuse it, and frankly I would love a replacement. So long as it has the diversity of nutrients, minerals, and microflora, bio-availability, and decent to good solubility.

I would really use a soluble organic plant meal that was 10-1-1 and another one that was 1-12-1 but I haven't found it.

Please don't mistake my passion for being argumentative as it really is not my intent my interest in this conversation is only to grow the best medicine I can, with as informed an outlook as possible

 

[FunTimesIndeed]

Well then, I ride a bicycle or a harley, both of which shame any hybrid in terms of gas consumption without any points detracted for lameness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ0B6kvFy-k

Indeed, if it's to be that manner of soiree I shall insert my phallus into the pomme puree.

Joking aside, peat moss is harvested under some very specific guidelines in Canada. Bat guano has always been a free-for-all, which is more troubling when you consider the ease with which a colony of bats can be seriously disturbed. I don't know how peat gets harvested in the EU, but the Irish seem to think it's sustainable enough to fuel their power plants.

 

[BugJar]

Well then, I ride a bicycle or a harley, both of which shame any hybrid in terms of gas consumption without any points detracted for lameness.

truth! I do agree that we should all do our part to help the earth.

and the fuel source thing was more of a general statement not really aimed.

Yes it is indeed regrettable that the bats have to be disturbed but there is ALWAYS a cost associated.
The minerals are mined the Sea products are taken from one of the most unstable and important environments on the earth, undoubtedly effecting the habitat of many species. The plant meals are most likely the result of commercial agriculture, if you are even lucky enough to find organic ones that is. the majority of them are packaged in plastic and all of them shipped by petroleum. That is reality. As much as I enjoy taking the moral high road it seems like EWC, wildcrafted FPE and Compost truly are the only free range, fair trade, cruelty free, non gmo organics out there.

Is there any botanical reason to not use it?

Stapler

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Is there any botanical reason to not use it?

BugJar

What is the NPK on the guano that you're asking about?

Am I right that it's probably a high phosphorus version?

CC

 

[xmobotx]

bugjar not so much as an individual but w/ a degree of consensus; our words here do have weight {i have even found that my own words can be fairly damaging in this context} and to that end i find it preferable to lean towards advising more sustainable practices so long as that works {a component in sustainable no?}

there is no significant advantage to using bat guano as an amendment for any reason

there's also nothing wrong w/ it as an amendment* so; if you have it/use it ~as a practice; the consequences are significant and alternatives are readily available for both N sources and P sources

i still have some left in the box i bought back in the 90s and i even bought some fresh bat guano on e-bay some years back ~you could probably find my posts to that effect from back then if you wanted to

but; i have come to terms w/ the above and prefer to avoid it ~even though; no doubt; i m a hypocrite on many levels/i guess i will work on that though

*clackamas will probably expose something ~lol

 

[BugJar]

bugjar
but; i have come to terms w/ the above and prefer to avoid it ~even though; no doubt; i m a hypocrite on many levels/i guess i will work on that though

*clackamas will probably expose something ~lol

that was a well thought out and eloquent response and I appreciate it.

You have made your point and I will reflect on it. I have just seen so many people say negative things about the performance and I am just trying to understand why.

I certainly didn't start the conversation to call anyone a hypocrite. I don't really feel that way about a single person here. I am just trying to draw back the veil or in some cases the wool from over my own eyes.

 

[xmobotx]

well it would be nice to find the most sustainable-practiced harvesters of neem kelp and crab meal