New to Tea - few questions

[GreenGuySF]

Hello everyone

Great to be here, I've read Teaming With Microbes and spent the last few days reading up in this section of the board
As a long time coco coir & chemical fertilizer user, never before did I realize how much more there is to learn!!!!
I am now convinced to the benefits of switching to organic and diving in by brewing my 1st compost tea right now
A few questions came up after reading a bunch of the posts, hope you guys can help

1. First, how does my equipment & ingredients look, any red flags?

2. The tea was brewing around 30 hrs now but still smells primarily of hi Brix syrup
I thought it smelled a bit more earthy when I last checked but can't really tell
When ready, the tea smell should change to that of a rich compost right?

3. I assume applying foliar with an atomist electric motor type sprayer is bad right?
What is the best sprayer for applying, is it the concrete sprayer like mentioned in the book?

4. I'd like to go with a microscope and be sure everytime the tea is fully active.
Can anyone recommend for a decent price?
Is it more crucial as a beginner to have the scope, or is this more a luxury?

(I have been reading a few sticky threads - mostly up to around 2010 in most of them - so sorry if stuff has been answered recently - I'm still coming up to speed!)

THANKS!!!

The Equipment:
10 gal brute trashcan
EcoPlus "Air 4" pump w/ 4 airstones attached (no idea the flow rate - anybody have it?)
Q Size pantyhose
2X seedling heat mats under the garbage can for extra warmth

The Ingredients:
8 gal water through BMS dechloraminating garden hose filter
8 Cups EWC (entire leg of q panty hose filled)
100 ml Earth Juice Hi Brix
50 ml Nitrozime
8 Tbsps OGBiowar pack
4 Tbsps Extreme Gardening Azos

 

[Old_Headbanger]

Hey greenguy

Welcome to organics!! You'll never go back once you try some of the smoothest herb you've ever had and realize how easy organic soil really is. Hopefully someone with more experience than I chimes in.

Your equipment looks fine, but your ingredients seem to be a little off. If you want the best recipee for tea checkout microbemans website, Microborganics.com. He uses way less inputs and the amounts are a lot smaller than the ones you posted. He's spent years dialing all this stuff in, so you can't go wrong following his guidelines.

Good luck and happy gardening!!

 

[OrganicBuds]

Welcome to the organic side of the universe, you won't leave disappointed.

First off, check Microbeorganics.com. They sell scopes designed for what you are trying to observe. That is also the best web site for AACTS (actively aerated compost tea) with the best recipes. They also sell brewers, and show how to build one.

Now the ingredients. You are adding some expensive bottled products from the hydro store. May I ask why? I really don't like earth juice products, but that is just me. Also, where is the microbe food? Usually that is accomplished by adding fish hydroslate (sp) and molasses. Once again, check out Microbeorganics.com and peep the ingredients he calls for in his brews. I buy my mollasses at Smart and Final by the gallon. I have now made hundreds of teas for my veggies, canna, fruit trees and lawn. I have used Bountea, extreme, KIS, Boo's brew, ready made expensive teas and none of them treat my plants as well as Microbemans tea. They are all great products, but the science is already taken care of with microbemans, evidence are in his culture videos.

question 2: without having brewed the tea you are talking about, I can't say what the smell should be like. MM (microbeman) would say smell and foam don't mean your brew is done or of high quality. The only true test would be gathering a culture sample and viewing it under a scope. With that said, I have noticed that most brews however do become a little earthy smelling and foam does build up at the end of my brews.

Question 3: I can't speak on the atomizer, but I would imagine it would kill everything that passes through it???? As for a sprayer, yes, a concrete water sprayer works great. Also just regular old one gal pump sprayers. I believe the ones to avoid are the hand pumps sprayers. I don't pump my sprayer all the way up in fear the pressure will effect the microbes. I only pump to about half pressure.

Question 4: Microbeorganics.com A scope is a luxury, but the only true way to tell if you are making quality teas. You can see how the plants react, test plant sap and brix levels, but the scope is the only true way.

How many watts is that pump? I use an 80 watt pump that is good up to 50 gal.

 

[GreenGuySF]

Hey greenguy

Welcome to organics!! You'll never go back once you try some of the smoothest herb you've ever had and realize how easy organic soil really is. Hopefully someone with more experience than I chimes in.

Your equipment looks fine, but your ingredients seem to be a little off. If you want the best recipee for tea checkout microbemans website, Microborganics.com. He uses way less inputs and the amounts are a lot smaller than the ones you posted. He's spent years dialing all this stuff in, so you can't go wrong following his guidelines.

Good luck and happy gardening!!

Thanks for the warm welcome!!!
I found MM's site from the "Tea Article" sticky after posting this - where he gives the ingredients amounts by volume.
Then I realized, wow, I definitely overshot the ingredients! No wonder I'm smelling molasses still

When we say "best" recipe - would that be fungal-dominated or bacterial-dominated - I see MM has 2 recipes listed.

THANKS!!!

 

[GreenGuySF]

You are adding some expensive bottled products from the hydro store. May I ask why? I really don't like earth juice products, but that is just me.

No doubt! I just followed a recipe on this OGBioWar stuff I picked up.
In the future I'll use the cheapest price high quality material I can find!

Also, where is the microbe food?

From what I understood, the Earth Juice Hi-Brix is a molasses equivalent. A gallon was relatively cheap so I picked it up

How many watts is that pump? I use an 80 watt pump that is good up to 50 gal.

I don't know! It's an Eco "Air 4" - it's not an impeller pump so I'm not sure watts is equivalent - on the box it said 5W.

Thanks for your reply

 

[al-k-mist]

well, not much more csn bee added, other than to say feed stores and farm stores are your friend, and hydro stores are not. you can take fruit SCRAPS with some molasses and make fermented plant extracts, or gather nettles or horseails to ferment.
what i am trying to say is theese kids here can show you how to make all of your own stuff, period. sourcing locally, and sustainably, and using organic inputs... this also has an environmental impact.
organics is the shit. welcome!

 

[GreenGuySF]

what i am trying to say is theese kids here can show you how to make all of your own stuff, period. sourcing locally, and sustainably, and using organic inputs... this also has an environmental impact.
organics is the shit. welcome!

Awesome! That is exactly what I am looking for!
National Geographic just had a great article about artificial fertilizer's effect on the planet
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2013/05/fertilized-world/charles-text
Definitely made me stop and take pause of what I am contributing myself.
Thanks for th welcome!

 

[Stoner Bob]

I also am new to compost teas

I ordered amscope from amazon and should be getting it thursday. There are many scopes of better quality, but I want to see what's in the tea, soil, etc..


most of the stuff I've read suggests the same stuff, going to someones website, and buying what they recommend. but rarely hear any more talk about people who have bought scopes after the fact. I have read a few that have bought the amscope I am ordering, and eventually upgraded to a scope in the $2000 range used with better features and optics, but I do not think they would have upgraded if they thought the microscope was pointless. and they probably only realized that by buying the entry level scope.

later on down the road

I'd rather pay $300 for an entry level scope than $600 for no real noticeable difference.

the scope cameras are crap and overpriced, so I will not be having that feature for a while, and it will be with a DSLR camera and a scope mount. the ones amscope and other scope manufacturers make all seem like crap quality



as far as your air pump goes, it puts out only 9 liters per minute, and you're using airstones. I've read that airstones rent the best choice. here is the design I roughly followed: http://extension.oregonstate.edu/lane/horticulture/documents/25gallonRubbermaidbrewerplans_2_.pdf


The pump I am using is rated at 85 liters per minute. Here's a vid of its output in a 20 gallon container with about 55 1/8th inch holes drilled into the PVC. I'm happy I splurged on a nice air pump, cant wait for the scope to arrive to see how/if the microbial life thrives in it
[YOUTUBEIF]gx08ENRw_YY[/YOUTUBEIF]

 

[budrunners]

1 your equipment and ingredients look really good expensive but good

2 what ^^^ OrganicBuds said ^^^

3 I use a hand pump 1 gallon sprayer at what I would say 3/4 pressure, ideally the finer the mist the better and not over saturating to the point when you have water droplets falling off the leaves. I have no experience with the pump sprayers you are asking about.

4 Never had to use a microscope I brew for 24-36 hours not much longer then the microbes run out of food in the tea, a good earthy smell is good but when you get a foul smelling tea that's when you have bad tea.



What is your soil base consist of ? you will need to feed the microbe soldiers so they can break down nutrients for the plant, here is what I use for my grow. I use a high brix soil grow method.
My mix for High Brix soil including amendments

25% happy frog
75% peat perlite mixture
worm castings
bone meal
azomite
mineralization mixture consisting 90% + pure calcium carbonate, soft rock phosphate, gypsum (this is the key to jump starting high brix, when mixed it has to cook 1 month to make it ready adding microbial tea starts it up)
great white myco.
microbial tea ( alfalfa pellet compost, blackstrap molasses and EJ catalyst )

Bottom fed once a week with Earth Juice grow, bloom, catalyst, microblast, hygrozyme, sugar peak grande finale (used during late bloom).

foilar fed once a week in veg and bloom with catalyst, sugar peak grande finale(used during late bloom) and microblast at different strengths

I'm experimenting with Amaze foliar spray and dextrose also using PGR with Amaze for plant stress (PGR is basically kelp based to be used foliar)
Dextrose is a simple sugar and feeds the mycos and soil soldiers more effectively
AMAZE is a crystal-clear foliar spray and has a broad spectrum of trace minerals and 5 units of calcium. AMAZE is great because it combines plant-available phosphate with a soluble calcium. By combining the calcium with the phosphate the calcium becomes mobile in the plant. Phosphoric acid in the mix allows spray to penetrate the leaves.

 

[John Deere]

MM is definitely the expert but you don't need to go to his website for info. Have you checked out the Tea Article sticky at the top of the page? Tons of info but that's how you learn.

There's also a good discussion on scopes right now, if you haven't seen it.

Which Microscope do you use?

Tons of great info around here if you search around a bit and tons of great folks that will help you out if you can't find what you're looking for. Best of luck.

 

[GreenGuySF]

What is your soil base consist of ? you will need to feed the microbe soldiers so they can break down nutrients for the plant, here is what I use for my grow. I use a high brix soil grow method.
My mix for High Brix soil including amendments

Awesome!! Thanks for the info!
Reading up on Brix & fertilizing for high Brix was primarily what got my interest in organics
That is something I definitely want to aim towards!!
Right now I am using 100% canna coco, no amendments except mycorrhiza

This was another big question: how much will the tea even help if not using soil?
Can it work to establish microorganisms in coco like adding a cup of previous aquarium water to a new aquarium?

Thanks!!!!

 

[GreenGuySF]

MM is definitely the expert but you don't need to go to his website for info. Have you checked out the Tea Article sticky at the top of the page? Tons of info but that's how you learn.

There's also a good discussion on scopes right now, if you haven't seen it.

Which Microscope do you use?

Tons of great info around here if you search around a bit and tons of great folks that will help you out if you can't find what you're looking for. Best of luck.

Absolutely! I'm up to about p40 of the "Tea Article" sticky so far.
This is a huge amount of information, I'm loving it even though more questions are forming than are being answered! Hahah!
I wasn't sure if I should post in there until I became as informed as possible first, so I created this thread.
I will check out that microscope thread too. Sounds cool.
Feel free to link any other related sticky or must-read threads here as well.
THANKS!!!

 

[budrunners]

GreenGuySF if you stick with 100% coco with mycos feeding the soil with teas IMO you will maintain the microbes but you are limiting yourself the nutrients needed for the plant to flourish.
High Brix is high mineral concentration including all primary, secondary and trace nutrients for microbes to chew on so they become available for the plant to use in addition the mineralization will raise the CEC and energize the microbial activity. The mix I have was lab analyzed for high brix gardening, I have not used coco before and don't know how well the mineral formula I have will work with coco, the only other mix that works well is Promix HP, 100% Happy Frog was close to failing the lab test for High brix and the lab recommended Happy Frog at 25% mixed with 75% Peat perlite mix, in addition there is plenty for the microbes to enjoy what is in Happy Frog soil mix.
If you want the formula for High Brix I will gladly share it with you. The ratios are exact.
Low brix reading will invite pests 6-8 reading and higher 14-17 brix readings pretty much have no worries about any pests.
Brix gardening does include foliar spraying in veg and bloom only thing in bloom is you try to focus on spraying the fan leaves not the buds, spraying the plant is like priming the pump to take up the nutrients.

On a different subject on your next harvest try this method you will love it.
In one gallon bucket : 6 tbsp lemon juice, 12 tbsp Baking soda
In one gallon bucket : distilled water
In one gallon bucket : distilled water
3 separate buckets

Cut branches off plants, remove fan leaves and nothing else.

Submerge and gently agitate freshly cut buds in each bucket for 30 seconds.Start with bucket 1 then rinse in bucket 2 and final rinse in bucket 3. attempt to spin the stem between your hands, especially when drying it out after the final dip.
A lot of crap washed off these buds and the flavor after the wash is awesome.

 

[Granger2]

FYI-EJ Hi-Brix is Molasses, not a Molasses equivalent.
Coco is very hospitable for cultivating/maintaining a microherd. -granger

 

[GreenGuySF]

Coco is very hospitable for cultivating/maintaining a microherd. -granger

Thanks granger!!!

So then could I gradually "cut over" to organic growing methods with time?
Would a hybrid approach work or be recommended?
In the past I've found best to change few things at a time to avoid mistakes
But since this is a complete different approach to plant feeding, maybe that isn't possible?

Also, I suppose now that I've applied tea, all my future water should be dechloraminated right?
I picked up this BMS Garden Hose filter, 180gph flow, anybody know a more efficient method to remove the chloramine/chlorine?

Final question for now:
The compost tea is only an enhancement for the microlife right?
Meaning, I should still feed according to normal rates & schedules?

THANKS!!!

 

[budrunners]

Filling a bucket with water then aerate it for 48 hours will evaporate the chlorine in water.

IMO compost tea will feed / maintain microbes and break down the nutes in the tea and any amendments for plant uptake, amendments to your coco would be considered enhancement.

 

[GreenGuySF]

Filling a bucket with water then aerate it for 48 hours will evaporate the chlorine in water.

In my area we have chloramine as well as chlorine. From what I understood, chloramine does NOT breakdown after leaving aerated for for 48 hrs, but is still antimicrobial and needs to be removed - is this correct?

 

[budrunners]

Yes it def. needs to be removed

Chloramines should be removed from water for dialysis, aquariums, hydroponic applications and homebrewing beer. Chloramines can interfere with dialysis, can hurt aquatic animals, and can give homebrewed beer a metallic taste. In hydroponic applications it will stunt the growth and fruit production of plants.

Ascorbic acid and sodium ascorbate completely neutralizes both chlorine and chloramines but degrades in a day or two which only make it usable for short-term applications; SFPUC determined that 1000 mg of Vitamin C (tablets purchased in a grocery store, crushed and mixed in with the bath water) remove chloramine completely in a medium size bathtub without significantly depressing pH

Activated carbon have been used for chloramine removal long before catalytic carbon became available; Standard activated carbon requires a very long contact time, which means a large volume of carbon is needed. For thorough removal, up to four times the contact time of catalytic carbon may be required.

Chloramine can be removed from tap water by treatment with superchlorination (10 ppm or more of free chlorine, such as from a dose of sodium hypochlorite bleach or pool sanitizer) while maintaining a pH of about 7 (such as from a dose of hydrochloric acid). Hypochlorous acid from the free chlorine strips the ammonia from the chloramine, and the ammonia outgasses from the surface of the bulk water. This process takes about 24 hours for normal tap water concentrations of a few ppm of chloramine. Residual free chlorine can then be removed by exposure to bright sunlight for about 4 hours.

 

[budrunners]

oh yeah Seachem. Prime is very effective for removing chloramine and chlorine

 

[GreenGuySF]

I have this... based on other methods you mentioned I guess this 180gph flow is pretty good!
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004NWZP7Y