Hosttrevor
Member
Thanks guys.
Anybody else have a problem with them leaving the sachets and dispersing?
Anybody else have a problem with them leaving the sachets and dispersing?
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Broad Mites?
- Thread starter Grow Tech
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Hosttrevor
Member
Can you not encourage them out of the satchets, like tear a corner and tap em out?
You have it exactly right brother. If you have a severe infestation 50 000 should be enough for a flower room up to about 5K, you make sure you release them right on top of the areas of damage. They will attack the broads most voraciously, but then they will die out.
This is why we order the sachets as a preventative. The sachets contain eggs, larvae, protonymphs, deutonymphs, and some adults. This ensures that for a period of six weeks you constantly have a controlled release of a small amount of swirskii mites, so that when the broads reappear you are protected. Whenever I see new damage I move the sachets to that particular plant.
Hosttrevor
Member
Ahah, I see. Thanks Moses.
I've rigged the other two lights up, total of 4 600w, 2 of them MH, which at least run a bit hotter. If I can't get elec heaters today, I'll see how high the temps go without them, but from what I've read I'll need them.
Trying to find a way to put my plants high up in the room where its hottest, them being only just over a foot high, but I'm struggling with ideas how to keep em up there. Where's Hercules when you need him ;-)
If I can get rid of these suckers its going to be the best room I've set up in the 25+ years I've been growing. Been so excited about it and can't believe my luck. 2yrs solving off gassing issues at the last place I set up in before sealing the room gave me top results. Prior to that in 20 odd years of growing I think, apart from the pesky spidermite from time to time, I've never had any issues other than a bout of root rot in hydro before I moved to DTW coco pots.
I'm glad I've got an early diagnosis, even without a scope I'm now pretty sure I've got them. New growth in many areas is looking better, but a few parts you can still see the damage occurring. This for me now rules out the off gassing. Still hoping for a scope today. I'm going to friends for dinner, then coming back, hopefully with heaters and a scope, then I'll take a couple of samples to scope and make my room like a Kiln for an hour. . . . toast those little fuckers!
Does the heat treatment kill the eggs too, or is it repeat treatments over a specific time frame?
Thank so much guys ;-)
Hosttrevor
Member
sorry guys, one more thing, I gave em half and asprin to a gallon of nutes and fed in the normal way. How often is this recommended, every feed?
Is it also a good thing to give them foliar sprays of water and asprin, and if so how often and what dosage per gallon of foliar spray do I use.
Humble gratitude again ;-)
Is it also a good thing to give them foliar sprays of water and asprin, and if so how often and what dosage per gallon of foliar spray do I use.
Humble gratitude again ;-)
GreenGuySF
Member
Foliar is not required, just in the water.
Use it every water or once a week for healthy plants
Use 325mg/gal
GOOD LUCK!!!
GreenGuySF
Member
What do you guys think, does this appear to be broad mite damage???
I suspected nutrient toxicity but I flushed and rewatered wit a lower ppm a couple days back, but its still getting worse
Let me know your guys opinions...
I suspected nutrient toxicity but I flushed and rewatered wit a lower ppm a couple days back, but its still getting worse
Let me know your guys opinions...
You have to scope them. That's the only way to know for sure. Cut off damaged leaf, scope, look for eggs. Otherwise could be root aphids or anything. Impossible to diagnose without a 100X scope.
GreenGuySF
Member
I have both digital (up to 150X) and regular (60-100X)
Can't find shit with either scope, since I used avid 2 months back
Given they were already in my room, is this consistent with damage they would produce if populations growing again??
Hosttrevor
Member
I'm inexperienced with BM's, but have a feeling I'm going to become experienced pretty soon, as I now believe I have them, but from what I have seen, your's doesn't look like the typical BM damage I've found during my recent research, most damage being done to upper new growth, and severely deformed crinckled, blistered as this new growth gets bigger. If I had more leaves go the way of the one on the second image I'd be looking at possible off gassing. However if you're in an established room and you haven't brought anything new into the room that could possibly off gas (the list of possible off gassing materials is long), and you have'nt changed your air intake (or something in the area from where the air is coming in) you can perhaps rule this out.
Please don't dismiss the BM's on what I say, though, cos as I said my experience with BM's is only just beginning. Like everybody here advises everybody here enquiring, self included, buy a scope and check them. Every grower should have a scope. I had several, but since being abroad for some time and setting up again in a new place, I can't find them anywhere. At least 60x, 100 would be better. (I know this as I've just borrowed a funky 60x scope with a light on it and its still difficult to see them properly. I do believe I am seeing them though.
I'll post again about that shortly though, I'm just raising temps in my room to see if I can reach 115-120f with 4 lights and 3600w of heaters. There are dangers of overloading your house wiring and causing serious fire risks if you're not careful about where you draw so much power from.
Trev
Hosttrevor
Member
Ok I got a 60x loop, I think I've seen either, lots of translucent tiny mites that really don't move, or lots of eggs. . . . . I think.
I removed one of the worst deformed leaves from the top of a plant and I see quite a few tranlucent oval things lighting up like tiny jewels (the scope has a light to the side) I'm not sure about this other thing I'm seeing, a bit bigger and greyer and not so oval, a little flatter, this may just be some foreign matter though, again its not moving. I think tomorrow I'll make an effort to go out to a toy chop and buy a 100-150 scope, I really want to see these things more clearly.
STOP PRESS. . . . My room has now reached 115 and is, I think, still rising. YEAY!!
Just one heater so far, I'm a bit worried about the current drain on house wiring as it is and that's with drawing 2 600's from the downstairs circuit. To add a 2400w heater now might be a bit too much, I'm checking cables and plugs for excessive heat etc.
I'll let it climb a little more then I'll set the timer for an hour.
Back to the scoping, I'm pretty sure what I'm seeing is a fairly large quantity of mites or eggs, I'll take a couple more leaves for samples, another suspected affected and one that looks all good and see what they look like.
Trev
I removed one of the worst deformed leaves from the top of a plant and I see quite a few tranlucent oval things lighting up like tiny jewels (the scope has a light to the side) I'm not sure about this other thing I'm seeing, a bit bigger and greyer and not so oval, a little flatter, this may just be some foreign matter though, again its not moving. I think tomorrow I'll make an effort to go out to a toy chop and buy a 100-150 scope, I really want to see these things more clearly.
STOP PRESS. . . . My room has now reached 115 and is, I think, still rising. YEAY!!
Just one heater so far, I'm a bit worried about the current drain on house wiring as it is and that's with drawing 2 600's from the downstairs circuit. To add a 2400w heater now might be a bit too much, I'm checking cables and plugs for excessive heat etc.
I'll let it climb a little more then I'll set the timer for an hour.
Back to the scoping, I'm pretty sure what I'm seeing is a fairly large quantity of mites or eggs, I'll take a couple more leaves for samples, another suspected affected and one that looks all good and see what they look like.
Trev
Hosttrevor
Member
POSITIVE ID
POSITIVE ID
POSITIVE ID. . . . They're riddled out with the little f*ckers!
I have murder on my mind!!
After a bit of faffing about I've managed to get the entire room to 120f, its over that by 2 or 3 degrees in places. I hope the plants can stand the strain, them being only little and quite sickly. One thing for certain is that they won't stand the strain of these mites
They're being toasted and I have a very cruel grin on my face as I think of them expiring as I type this :-/
Trev
POSITIVE ID
POSITIVE ID. . . . They're riddled out with the little f*ckers!
I have murder on my mind!!
After a bit of faffing about I've managed to get the entire room to 120f, its over that by 2 or 3 degrees in places. I hope the plants can stand the strain, them being only little and quite sickly. One thing for certain is that they won't stand the strain of these mites
They're being toasted and I have a very cruel grin on my face as I think of them expiring as I type this :-/
Trev
Sounds like you're on the right track. If they are there, you WILL see them. 100X scope is really about the minimum, unless your eyes are better than mine. They have plenty of them on Amazon, and you can also get them on Dealextreme.com
http://dx.com/s/mini+microscope
There are several new ones on Deal Extreme that are more powerful than they had before. In the 10$ range there are several that are over 100X. The tiny 60X scopes for $3 are great for checking trichomes, but too weak for BMs. Note that the stated magnifications are often exaggerated, so get the most powerful one you can.
Amazon also has plenty of them.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=mini+microscope
Mites are translucent and harder to see than eggs, but you will see them with some patience and by looking @ a lot of leaves. After heat treatment, you should only see dead mites. They will not be moving. There should be lots of eggs under leaves and easy to see. They are oval in shape and not to be confused with trichomes, which have more of a point to them. Broad mite eggs will have tiny bumps on them, cyclamen mite eggs are smooth. You will have to scope your plants daily once these bastards are in your environment, because they will come back.
http://dx.com/s/mini+microscope
There are several new ones on Deal Extreme that are more powerful than they had before. In the 10$ range there are several that are over 100X. The tiny 60X scopes for $3 are great for checking trichomes, but too weak for BMs. Note that the stated magnifications are often exaggerated, so get the most powerful one you can.
Amazon also has plenty of them.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=mini+microscope
Mites are translucent and harder to see than eggs, but you will see them with some patience and by looking @ a lot of leaves. After heat treatment, you should only see dead mites. They will not be moving. There should be lots of eggs under leaves and easy to see. They are oval in shape and not to be confused with trichomes, which have more of a point to them. Broad mite eggs will have tiny bumps on them, cyclamen mite eggs are smooth. You will have to scope your plants daily once these bastards are in your environment, because they will come back.
GreenGuySF
Member
Hey man glad to hear you IDd the problem
Sounds like you're on track to boiling them alive now
Quick question, what size is your room & what are the specs of the heater(s) you used?
And if you recall the temps you reached from leaving exhaust/AC off with lights alone
This will help me out a lot, I have a 10x20 space
Thanks and GOOD LUCK with the mass insecticide!!!
Don't go too high on the temps, and an hour is sufficient. The mites should die in the 115 to 118 range. I took it to 120 just to be sure, as temperatures vary around the room and at different heights, but no reason to push it more than that, except in an empty room to kill any stragglers that are hiding along baseboards, etc. In that case you can bring temps as high as you want for as long as you want.
Doesn't really look like classic Broad mite damage, but only the scope knows for sure. If you are scoping and not seeing eggs on undersides of leaves, then you don't have them currently, but could be residual damage from toxins. Check your root zone. Pull a plant from it's pot and examine bottom roots with a loupe and light. Could be root aphids. Your symptoms resemble RAs, but it could also be other things, PH always being main culprit. Looks like you are in coco, so PH should be 5.8, PPMs no more tham 800 according to K.I.S.S. method.
Don't stop the aspirin. 325 Mg per gallon every feeding/watering.
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Hosttrevor
Member
Thanks guys, without a doubt. loads of little ovals underneath the leaves, a few on tops too. Only found one or two actual mites, at least I'm pretty sure they're mites, a little fatter and flatter and sure I could see the legs, they weren't moving though. This may be because I used Abemectin/AVID twice on them, I believe it kills the mites but not the eggs.
Oops on the temps, I hope the plants aren't all withered up by lights on tomorrow, after the radiator went on the temps were at 129.4 for quite a while. If I'm lucky the plants will recover and any stray mites in the room should be toasted wherever they're hiding.
I'm not sure as I should pump air through there for a little while as I don't think it'd be a great idea to suddenly chill them, now lights are off. I thought I'd give it an hour or so to cool down first, I've just put the intak fans on and left the door open to let the heat out. There's no smell as they're very immature plants. Once temps are down to the low 90's I'll put the big extracter on and get the air circulating well again.
I imagine I'll be spending some time on this thread seeing this through and regular maintenance and I'll keep you posted with results in the hope it will further the wealth of information here, and in turn hopefully be able to help out with others seeking help once I'm up on things and feel I can offer something. I may run a grow diary based on these lot, see if I can get a half decent harvest from plants nearly killed off ;-)
Retro, I've got to say a huge, huge thanks to you and others here that have had to go through the mill and back to find the best solutions and then share this knowledge to save a lot of other people like myself the heartache, the heartache I can relate to after having two years of stress and tearing my hair out over off gassing.
I don't know how anyone has the gaul to bad rep you, as I know they have done on some threads. You're a scholar and a gentleman with a big heart to spend time helping others. I imagine it must really p*ss you off, it would me, but let me speak for the more sensible people here mate, you're really up there dude!!
I'm not going to order a scope online, but thanks for the info, local TOYS ARE US will sell them, I'll pop there and get one, the strongest I can afford. I want the sample slides and everything, I wanna pop a few in them and heat em up to 120ish and watch what happens ;-)
Retro, I agree with you about heat not having a detrimental affect on a living plant, at least for the durations you were referring to, but I'd be sh*t scared of mould in the latter stages, how have you found that?
I don't like using these chems. I always hit new cuts with one dose of Abemectin/AVID, but I gather I need to buy some forbid to kill the eggs. This is for new cuts coming in and occaisionally on mothers, once I've set the mother space and get some good genetics, hopefully getting a few good genetics from a clone fairy soon. ;-)
Greenguy, hi mate, my room is (sorry its in meters) 3.5m X 2.4m by 2.8 high. Four 600's brought the room to over 105f with all air being still. one 1200w Halogen heater and a house radiator easily brought it up and above the required temps. I do hope it wasn't too high, at least that'll be some test to how hot you can get away with ;-). Though strain and condition would make some difference I imagine. Mind you mine are quite sickly so if they survive it ok. I did them for more than an hour too, because once I'd got it above 118 I set the timer but the temps for some reason dropped off to 110, then I put the rad on which brought it easily up to strength (once I'd bled it, ain't been used in ages). Hope that helps ;-)
Seriously Retro and others who've put there knowledge and experiences here for all, a F*CKING big thankyou!! ;-)
Oops on the temps, I hope the plants aren't all withered up by lights on tomorrow, after the radiator went on the temps were at 129.4 for quite a while. If I'm lucky the plants will recover and any stray mites in the room should be toasted wherever they're hiding.
I'm not sure as I should pump air through there for a little while as I don't think it'd be a great idea to suddenly chill them, now lights are off. I thought I'd give it an hour or so to cool down first, I've just put the intak fans on and left the door open to let the heat out. There's no smell as they're very immature plants. Once temps are down to the low 90's I'll put the big extracter on and get the air circulating well again.
I imagine I'll be spending some time on this thread seeing this through and regular maintenance and I'll keep you posted with results in the hope it will further the wealth of information here, and in turn hopefully be able to help out with others seeking help once I'm up on things and feel I can offer something. I may run a grow diary based on these lot, see if I can get a half decent harvest from plants nearly killed off ;-)
Retro, I've got to say a huge, huge thanks to you and others here that have had to go through the mill and back to find the best solutions and then share this knowledge to save a lot of other people like myself the heartache, the heartache I can relate to after having two years of stress and tearing my hair out over off gassing.
I don't know how anyone has the gaul to bad rep you, as I know they have done on some threads. You're a scholar and a gentleman with a big heart to spend time helping others. I imagine it must really p*ss you off, it would me, but let me speak for the more sensible people here mate, you're really up there dude!!
I'm not going to order a scope online, but thanks for the info, local TOYS ARE US will sell them, I'll pop there and get one, the strongest I can afford. I want the sample slides and everything, I wanna pop a few in them and heat em up to 120ish and watch what happens ;-)
Retro, I agree with you about heat not having a detrimental affect on a living plant, at least for the durations you were referring to, but I'd be sh*t scared of mould in the latter stages, how have you found that?
I don't like using these chems. I always hit new cuts with one dose of Abemectin/AVID, but I gather I need to buy some forbid to kill the eggs. This is for new cuts coming in and occaisionally on mothers, once I've set the mother space and get some good genetics, hopefully getting a few good genetics from a clone fairy soon. ;-)
Greenguy, hi mate, my room is (sorry its in meters) 3.5m X 2.4m by 2.8 high. Four 600's brought the room to over 105f with all air being still. one 1200w Halogen heater and a house radiator easily brought it up and above the required temps. I do hope it wasn't too high, at least that'll be some test to how hot you can get away with ;-). Though strain and condition would make some difference I imagine. Mind you mine are quite sickly so if they survive it ok. I did them for more than an hour too, because once I'd got it above 118 I set the timer but the temps for some reason dropped off to 110, then I put the rad on which brought it easily up to strength (once I'd bled it, ain't been used in ages). Hope that helps ;-)
Seriously Retro and others who've put there knowledge and experiences here for all, a F*CKING big thankyou!! ;-)
Hosttrevor
Member
Oh, and Greenguy and any others reading this, remember you wiring circuits in houses are only rated up to, I believe, but check it for yourselves, 3200w, so add all your lights and any heaters etc and add the watts up if it gets close to the limit, run a decent quality extention from a different circuit such as downstairs sockets, which will or should be on a different wiring loop, therefore spreading the load. I know burning your house down would definitely kill these little fuckers, but it aint the way to go huh? ;-)
Also when running the heat, its not a bad isea if you can to get to the mains fuse box and just check that any wires coming/going from it are not getting ridiculously hot.
Stay safe ;-) Trev
Also when running the heat, its not a bad isea if you can to get to the mains fuse box and just check that any wires coming/going from it are not getting ridiculously hot.
Stay safe ;-) Trev
Hosttrevor
Member
Well the plants aren't showing any more stress signs after hitting them for a good while with temps of up to 129.4. New growth pointing straight up and no droopiness generally ;-)
Going to give them a good drink now, including the dose of Aspirin. The Aspirin here is 300mg per tab, I'm sure that'll be near enough to the recommended 325 per gal. Do you mean American or UK gallon though, I believe they're different?
Trev
Going to give them a good drink now, including the dose of Aspirin. The Aspirin here is 300mg per tab, I'm sure that'll be near enough to the recommended 325 per gal. Do you mean American or UK gallon though, I believe they're different?
Trev
Hosttrevor
Member
I've just scoped again, no mites to be seen again, but still a lot of eggs. Can I assume those eggs cant hatch now because of the temps they've been exposed to? Is this batch of eggs now confined to history?
Might be difficult to recognise them if they came back unless they discolour/fall off over time, of course any new growth shouldn't have any eggs on once the next lot of growth comes through.
Thanks, Trev
Might be difficult to recognise them if they came back unless they discolour/fall off over time, of course any new growth shouldn't have any eggs on once the next lot of growth comes through.
Thanks, Trev
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