Major Stunting Moms + Veg, dying clones, HELP!

[bubbler720]

Hey all, been working on this prob two months and can't get rid of it. here's a bit of background
- problem began with mothers, leaves curling up, stunted growth, clones die, veg plants stall
- garden: hydro, 6" rockwool medium, dutch master gold nutes. mothers/clones/veg all under T5 florescent.
- RO water. i originally thought this is the prob - prob started 2 mos ago, and i had mistakenly cut out CAL/MAG 4ml/gal about 3 mos ago. could this still be the prob? 1 month ago I flushed moms, and have been using cal/mag and regular dutch master veg nutes 600-800ppm, 5.5 ph. so after a month with cal/mag moms still look like this
- see pic of rooted clone - a few clones will still root from this mom but will have stunted growth and die/ or just sit stalled in 6" rock wool.
- once damaged veg ladies moved to 1000w veg cycle (pre flower), problem subsides slightly - growth more vigorous but leaves curl and deformed new growth persists

Please post your diagnosis / recommended cure. Thank you!!!!!

pic 1 = c/u of mother plant. there are many moms, they all started looking like this to varying degrees about 2 mos ago (all connected by same res)

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pic 2 = rooted clone w/stunted growth. looks like it should make it , but it won't

View image in gallery​

pic 3 = prob less but persists in under 1000w veg cycle, pre flower

View image in gallery​

pic 4 = wide angle moms

View image in gallery​

 

[bubbler720]

Photos attached: major stunting

Photos attached: major stunting

Re- Posted w/photos


Please post your diagnosis / recommended cure. Thank you!!!!!

pic 1 = c/u of mother plant. there are many moms, they all started looking like this to varying degrees about 2 mos ago (all connected by same res)



pic 2 = rooted clone w/stunted growth. looks like it should make it , but it won't





pic 3 = prob less but persists in under 1000w veg cycle, pre flower





pic 4 = wide angle moms

 

[greekgardner]

looks like broad mites,im fighting them now,have you scoped them yet?

 

[bubbler720]

no, there's no crawlers, no bugs - nada. no root aphids, spider mites, thrips, etc. the roots are white and healthy - - aka the clones root but then stunt

 

[GreenGuySF]

I hate to say it but I fear it's broad mites too.
This looks a lot like mine had when the infestation got real bad.
Hope for your sake I'm wrong, it is a nite mare.
To get peace of mind, buy a $12 microscope 60-100x and look around.
They are invisible to the naked eye. Even with a 30x loupe very hard to see.
Just my $0.02.. hope it helps!!!

 

[bubbler720]

ok - I'm going to get the microscope today. will post again in a few hours after scoped

 

[Some old dude]

BM's , Forbid to clear them out completely. Then after residual effect over. Start Swirskii mite program. I got those Swirskii Packets hanging all over my yard on every tree and bush and plant numerous packets. and two sachets on every mother indoor. so far so good.It actually makes one feel better scoping out a plant and seeing those beneficial soldiers on patrol..lol

 

[greekgardner]

I been fighting them for 2 weeks now,havent seen one yet but I know they are in there,like old dude says start forbid sprays as soon as possible,i alternate between forbid and avid sprays and add some aspirin to your feed nutes,good luck bro these are the worst pests ive ever seen in my 15 years of indoor gardening,they will destroy your garden if you don't act fast.............

 

[stihgnobevoli]

what's the pH? start there. sorry missed that part

what temps are you getting in the rootzone, also what kinda hydro dwc or some sort of drip/flood/mist?

looks like cal/mag still but it should have sorted itself out in a couple days with hydro. the old leaves never go back to normal btw. are these new leaves still rolling up at the margins? aka taco leaves.

 

[bubbler720]

Hi All, thanks for the tip on broad mites. I bought the 60x100 scope and I have a disgusting amount of broad mites, as identified by pics on the thread on this site titled "Broad Mites?" There are so many they look like translucent maggots.

I'm going to follow Storm Shadow's perscription (posted below complete) of: forbid/avid/spinosad/trip neem/azamax ... indicate 5 as wetting agent.

Questions regarding this perscription:
1. ok to use on fresh cuttings?
2. ok to spray apply to top sides of leaf only?
3. i know best to use during veg cycle. if ok to use during flower up to what day?
4. Storm Shadow's recommendation runs 10 days. Ok to use again (start cycle again) after how many days?
5. do these suckers live only on living matter, or also on res's, trays, walls? if so, H202 best to wipe down, or other spray / bomb?
6. how long before plants recover?
7. any other advice?

 

[bubbler720]

Here's Storm Shadow's post:
"Forbid 3ml a gallon mixed with Indicate 5....3 days later....Avid 2.5ml per gallon mixed with Indicate 5.... 3 days later Spinosad 60ml per Gallon mixed with INdicate 5.... 2 days later Triple Action Neem Oil mix per label DO NOT Use with any wetting agent....2 days later Azatrol or Azamax 30ml per gallon mixed with Indicate 5..I like Neemix 4.5 way better then Azamax or Azatrol... Azasol would be awsome too....

Anyways...this seems kind of overkill right? FUck no... these bastards are crazy and do die on contact from Miticides...they take a week or two to fully die off...thats why we add the Spinosad and Triple Action Neem Oil...both are contact killers to those fuckers...and the azadirachtin just puts the icing on the cake

 

[thrillspan]

A bit lighter on the Forbid (2ml/gal) and you can go to 3.0ml/gal on the Avid. The plants really don't care for the Forbid as much as the Avid. I have combined both in the same sprayer with no ill effects. Every third day for 30 days, every ten days for the month following that.

Also, aspirin in your res to help the plant heal. 1 per gallon (325mg)

Good luck, they can be beat but it's hard, and might be unlikely that the plants you have make it through flower with any type of yield.

Killed me for 6 months, but all is good now, I spray Avid twice in veg as a precaution.

SHine on!

 

[GreenGuySF]

Hi All, thanks for the tip on broad mites. I bought the 60x100 scope and I have a disgusting amount of broad mites, as identified by pics on the thread on this site titled "Broad Mites?" There are so many they look like translucent maggots.

I'm going to follow Storm Shadow's perscription (posted below complete) of: forbid/avid/spinosad/trip neem/azamax ... indicate 5 as wetting agent.

Sorry to hear that you have them dude. That really sucks!
At least you know what it is now and could start taking action.
Here is what I would say regarding your questions


Questions regarding this perscription:
1. ok to use on fresh cuttings?
---AFAIK, if not they should be discarded anyway
---If possible discard all you can instead of trying to save
---These fuckers live mostly inside the new growth area (meristem)
---Therefore they are EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to treat with pesticide once colony is well established
2. ok to spray apply to top sides of leaf only?
---NO! Soak every possible area.. saturate the entire plant
---See above answer, try to spray directly into new growth points
3. i know best to use during veg cycle. if ok to use during flower up to what day?
--- I used avid on week 3, but it was a 10 week strain.. I would not even do that again either
4. Storm Shadow's recommendation runs 10 days. Ok to use again (start cycle again) after how many days?
---Read up on these chemicals before you use.
---Avid is translaminar at least 3 weeks. No need every 10 days.
5. do these suckers live only on living matter, or also on res's, trays, walls? if so, H202 best to wipe down, or other spray / bomb?
--They can possibly be anywhere. Are you sure how you got them? If not assume they will come back
6. how long before plants recover?
---You can see leaf distortion up to another 1-2 weeks
---Use aspirin 325mg/gal ASAP from now on
7. any other advice?
---GOOD LUCK
---Check out the heat treament lot of people are getting 100% die off

 

[GreenGuySF]

Hi All, thanks for the tip on broad mites. I bought the 60x100 scope and I have a disgusting amount of broad mites, as identified by pics on the thread on this site titled "Broad Mites?" There are so many they look like translucent maggots.

To give more clarification, I used avid twice 4 days apart & never found one again.
2 rounds should be good to get knock down
Then use heat or predators (esp in flower)
Despite not finding another live broad mite, distorted leaf effects lasted the entire duration of the plants life.
So either their damage is semi-permanent or there was still small population

 

[bubbler720]

hi, just to confirm - haven't heard of the aspirin dose -- put 325 aspirin (for human consumption) directly into the res. 1 asprin per gallon. correct?

 

[LEDNewbie]

Correct.

 

[Some old dude]

Broad mites

Broad mites

I have ran clean twice doing this.

1 ml "Judo" (same as forbid exactly just different distributor) per gallon on mother plants. Don't need to soak both sides of leaves as it's a trans laminar. (Soaks through to other side of leaf. But spray good coverage. that's it. Then no sign for nine months. Two or three grows. Then you will get them again,and again and never get them totally gone. This time I am using "Swirskii Mite sachets" predator mites supposed to work well we will see. After I sprayed and waited around a month I now have "swirskii mites running around my mothers on patrol. And will re-order them about every month and a half.Have them sachets all over my plants in the yard and all over my property.

 

[GreenGuySF]

hi, just to confirm - haven't heard of the aspirin dose -- put 325 aspirin (for human consumption) directly into the res. 1 asprin per gallon. correct?

Yep exactly, use the uncoated
You'll see white powder floating in the res, this is normal.
Make sure you have filters installed if you're using drip lines.
The salicylic acid triggers the plants immune system, or something

 

[burns1n209]

yes that is correct, it helps with the plants immune system to recover from the toxic bites of the broad mite

 

[greekgardner]

yup 1 per gallon