Sick indoor plans moved outdoors and get better !

[houdini]

Indoors : Temps. of 25 deg. C., good air circulation, room well ventilated with fresh air, 1000w HPS. Young plants, 3rd. set of leaves, in good virgin Atami soil, watered with only ph adjusted water. Plants are chlorotic, stunted growth, poor root development.

Moved one plant outdoors as a test. After two weeks hardening off, plant came to life and grew completely normally. Plant in the same pot, soil unchanged. So the ONLY differences are air, light, temps. and water because I'm using a different water supply.

What is the problem indoors, anybody ?

 

[CannabisFox]

might be the different light molecule in the sun
.............oooooooooooor the ph of the water

 

[MoeBudz^420]

Perhaps ph of indoor water supply was off, and rain is in the range? i know our tap is about 7.8 unadjusted, and rain is about 6.5...

Just a guess...


Peace

 

[houdini]

Perhaps ph of indoor water supply was off, and rain is in the range? i know our tap is about 7.8 unadjusted, and rain is about 6.5...

Just a guess...


Peace

Thanks Budz. The pH of the water indoors is 7.6, which I adjust to 6.7 or so. I actually imported water from another source thinking that might be the problem, but no. Runoff water is about 6.8 and EC at 1.2 is a little high but OK as well.......

 

[houdini]

Anybody----echo-----echo------ ??

C'mon folks, jog yer grey matter !! If a plant does badly (chlorosis) indoors, you move it outside and it grows fine, what are the differences ??

- Temps. are different, but my indoors temps were 25 C.
- Humidity is different. Mine was 50% indoors.
- Water doesn't seem to be the problem.
- Light is different, but I used CFL's indoors AND a 1K HPS.
- Air is different, but indoors I pumped in fresh air twice a day.

What am I missing ? Is it possible that the seeds I'm trying to grow out (C99's and these are outdoor C99 seeds) simply won't grow properly indoors because they were bred outdoors ?

 

[CannabisFox]

Yea genetics could be the cause

 

[kerlito]

i think is the moviment of the air , outsite fresh air , inside is very dificult to move the air like in the nature.

 

[headband 707]

Plants truly hate the indoors and ppl can go overboard with many things indoor. Watering seems to be the big one so let them dry between watering and make sure your ph is right. Don't overdo anything at first, and let them adjust when you have it right so will they. Your looking for root to start to get Vit "B" and start there. They like floresence bulbs so go to town. peace out Headband707

 

[Maj.Cottonmouth]

Anybody----echo-----echo------ ??

C'mon folks, jog yer grey matter !! If a plant does badly (chlorosis) indoors, you move it outside and it grows fine, what are the differences ??

- Temps. are different, but my indoors temps were 25 C.
- Humidity is different. Mine was 50% indoors.
- Water doesn't seem to be the problem.
- Light is different, but I used CFL's indoors AND a 1K HPS.
- Air is different, but indoors I pumped in fresh air twice a day.

What do you mean by this? You did not have constant airflow and only exchanged the air twice a day? If this is the case I think it is a lack of CO2 indoors.

 

[kerlito]

What do you mean by this? You did not have constant airflow and only exchanged the air twice a day? If this is the case I think it is a lack of CO2 indoors.

for me i think the same the air is the key in this question , i think

 

[houdini]

Yea genetics could be the cause

Thanks CannabisFox. Having tried almost everything else, I'm beginning to think the same. This is the FIRST time I have ever experienced such a problem. Have you seen any articles or similar about seeds that grow well outdoors but poorly indoors ? Would appreciate any links etc. Cheers.

 

[houdini]

for me i think the same the air is the key in this question , i think

Kerlito, I have some pretty good honeywell circulating fans - My plants have plenty of shaking leaves so air is getting circulated. I'm also pulling in air twice a day with powerful fans and venting at the same time. I have a co2 injection system/monitor and ppms are always around the 600 mark. I can up it if I want using a propane burner but I prefer to keep seedlings at a just-above- ambient levels.
BTW, I NEVER use 1500 ppm co2. Normally I use 800-1000ppm for vegging and flowering and it works just fine.

 

[houdini]

What do you mean by this? You did not have constant airflow and only exchanged the air twice a day? If this is the case I think it is a lack of CO2 indoors.

My co2 is OK. I have an auto injection with a ppm monitor. I use 600ppm for seedlings and 800-1000ppm for veg./flower. I actually want to go sealed room, but with the problems I'm having I need to find out what the f**k is going on first ! Initially I thought the problem might be environmental, like offgassing of room materials and so on, now I don't think so....

Hey cottonmouth, how much can go wrong if I'm simply germinating seeds, putting them in 6" pots under CFL's for their initial growth, keeping the temps. at 25C, humidity at 50%, decent air, 18-6 light cycle, virgin pro grow soil, good soil pH, decent ppm salt readings.??
The seedlings grow normally until the third set of leaves and then growth simply slows to a stop almost and leaf chlorosis starts on new growth ? Not a watering problem either; soil drains well.

 

[houdini]

Plants truly hate the indoors and ppl can go overboard with many things indoor. Watering seems to be the big one so let them dry between watering and make sure your ph is right. Don't overdo anything at first, and let them adjust when you have it right so will they. Your looking for root to start to get Vit "B" and start there. They like floresence bulbs so go to town. peace out Headband707

Thanks for your reply headband. Yeah, I've grown for years and as you say, watering correctly is important as is keeping the pH in range to avoid lockout. I've checked all of these things numerous times.
I didn't mention this in my threadstarter, but I kept a couple of these chlorotic plants and kept them growing to see their evolution over time. 2 of them have basically overcome their problem. They are 3 ft. tall and all new growth is now lovely and green AND they are in the same room as the sick seedlings. WTF ???? I can only thing that the mature plants have somehow outgrown their initial problem for some reason. Why ? Haven't a clue (Goes back to banging head off wall)

 

[houdini]

Found the problem !!!!! Having rechecked everything I was totally stumped. I was left with only air in the end so I increased the fresh incoming air and placed a carbon scrubber in the room. Bingo !! Within a week the plants were greening up. Further investigation makes it probable that I have an outgassing problem from some material in my room which is putting VOC's (volatile organic compounds) in the air. These VOC's are causing the stomata to close, hence my chlorosis and stunting. The increased fresh air and scrubber are solving the problem......

You live and learn folks. I was going nuts with this problem but with perseverence there is ALWAYS a solution !!!!

 

[max_well]

Hey Houdini
I'm wondering if you were able to determine exactly what the source of your VOC issue is... I made the mistake of using an exterior paint in my sealed room, and found that the new paint / chemical smell did not dissipate over time. Using a scrubber definitely helps eliminate the VOC odor, but I fear that the plant potential is still not ideal because of the air quality. Unfortunately coating over with low/no-VOC paint doesn't significantly reduce the out-gassing; I think I'm gonna seal the walls in mylar between rounds to further reduce the fumes. thanks for any advice

 

[houdini]

Hey Houdini
I'm wondering if you were able to determine exactly what the source of your VOC issue is... I made the mistake of using an exterior paint in my sealed room, and found that the new paint / chemical smell did not dissipate over time. Using a scrubber definitely helps eliminate the VOC odor, but I fear that the plant potential is still not ideal because of the air quality. Unfortunately coating over with low/no-VOC paint doesn't significantly reduce the out-gassing; I think I'm gonna seal the walls in mylar between rounds to further reduce the fumes. thanks for any advice

Maxwell I wasn't able to determine what material was causing the problem. I took over an old room about 6 months ago. It had plastic electrical conduit all over the place plus wall covering which is years old. There is also an old carpet which is glued to the floor and impossible to remove without major work. I only rent the room so I really can't go ripping it up. The VOC's could be coming from the walls, carpet, plastics, glue etc. etc. My ballasts are in the room as well, and ballasts sometimes give off Ethylene, so another contamination source.

I'm sticking with the room because its a secure location, and security is the most important thing for me. So I'm working around the problem by pumping in fresh air 7 times per day, 15 mins. each refresh AND using a large air scrubber which cleans the growroom air completely every 12 mins.

I wanted to go sealed room, but with the offgassing problem that is presently impossible. I'm HOPING that the problem will diminish or disappear with time. Why ? Because this abandoned room was not used for years. I'm now heating it up to 25 deg. C., with humidity also present. I'm probably provoking outgassing with this environment. And I'm hoping that I eventually 'burn off' these toxic gases over a period of time. Anyway my increased fresh air input and the scrubber are working. Plants now growing properly after 6 months of hell and it cost me a fortune !

 

[Tokesome]

Your carpet isn't glued to the floor is it?

Its the worst out gasser I know of, screwed me up for 2 years sometime ago and have twice seen it elsewhere, once sealed no problem, though if you're pulling air in through the house or any other environment where there is carpet glue it will affect things too.

Fuck knows what this stuff must be doing for humans, especially developing children.

I'm so surprised that there isn't a load of info on it out here, its devastating to growing, sickly plants that die or at best produce a quarter of the yield.

CARPET GLUE IS NOTHING SHORT OF LETHAL, at least to plants.

Why dont you have the air on constant change instead of a few times a day?