Noobin up a PPK

[DaveTheNewbie]

thew funny thing is i have a massive pile of ornamental polished black rocks in the back yard in a pile from a gardening adventure. they are about 2.5 inches long.
the idea of rocks to hold down perlite just isnt ... well im just not feeling it. Seems silly.

ok so if i go the perlite route i take it they can wick (have capilliary action) how big should my air gap be? ive drilled holes to leave 4 inch gap, but new buckets with new holes will cost me nothing.

 

[bobblehead]

Leave everything else as-is.

I've discussed using perlite in a ppk with D9... And I'm sure he'll concur.

 

[farmari]

Bobbles what views were expressed in using perlite, if I may ask? I just transplanted a couple plants into perlite PPKs. Dave I wish I knew a proper air gap, I'll try 3-4 inches and see how it goes. I don't know how to do a proper wicking test as my transplants have a 1 gallon coco root ball surrounded by perlite in 2 gallon buckets.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

and you clone straight into pure perlite too dont you bobbles?
so its a 1 for 1 replacement : coco for perlite, leave everything else as is
that cant be too hard can it ?

 

[high life 45]

Im happily rocking pumice fwiw.

I cant remember exactly where you are so forgive me if im off.
http://www.australianperlite.com/pumice/

It sounds like they prewash it,
"Our pumice is mined from a land based resource, within 50kms of Lake Taupo in the North Island of New Zealand, and it is characterized by its relative hardness and lightweight in comparison to competing aggregates. The washing and screening of our pumice particularly for horticultural applications means that no ‘fine’ particles are included. Unwashed pumice can cause ‘concreting’ and higher water holding capacity than required, consequently effecting root development.

This hardness and porosity allows free drainage lowering the risk of root-rot diseases.

Pumice grades supplied for horticultural uses include:

1-4mm
1-7mm
4-10mm
7-20mm"

 

[SecondAttempt]

HL what size pumice do you use? Does it float? I know it's light... Where do you source it? Thank you.

 

[irishdude5186]

Is there somewhat of a consensus formed for what material is best in a ppk regardless if you can source it or not?

 

[bobblehead]

Bobbles what views were expressed in using perlite, if I may ask? I just transplanted a couple plants into perlite PPKs. Dave I wish I knew a proper air gap, I'll try 3-4 inches and see how it goes. I don't know how to do a proper wicking test as my transplants have a 1 gallon coco root ball surrounded by perlite in 2 gallon buckets.

The same things I've already stated... Perlite is a good hydroponic medium, except that it floats and can have a lot of dust... 8822 also has lots of dust.

and you clone straight into pure perlite too dont you bobbles?
so its a 1 for 1 replacement : coco for perlite, leave everything else as is
that cant be too hard can it ?

Yes, I clone in straight perlite. 3-4" air gap is what you want. I believe you can experiment with this as well.

Is there somewhat of a consensus formed for what material is best in a ppk regardless if you can source it or not?

No.



Where are you D9?

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

ok im really struggling with putting 2 pots into my veg tent. i can fit 4 with blumats easily, but with PPKs i just dont have the room.
this is why i went 1 plant last time around with coco.

what is the consensus on putting 2 clones into 1 pot at far ends of the pot? then i can use the old system

or 3 clones in a row. think like a flood and drain table / garden bed but smaller

 

[frankenstein2]

Quit being a pussy Dave and just switch over to perlite already. Anyway's i'm about to start my first ppk project. I gotta get my lazy ass to where my supplies are so I can grab a uniseal I have for the bottom of the ppk, then it's on. Already have a pump and irrigation hose to make my halo. I might do it with straight up happy frog and a strain that I don't really care about and see if it works.

 

[delta9nxs]

"Where are you D9?"

i be here, massuh!

perlite is fine in a ppk with a wave type pulse. wash some and
do the air porosity test before screening to get your starting point.

with perlite you don't want 30%. i'm guesstimating about 20% would be better

dave, you need a float controlled air gap so you can dial in moisture content in the medium. at least initially. i believe that once someone gets used to a certain medium they could go to an overflow for level control.

this could be done with a separate pump chamber so that the solution, once pulsed to the top containers, would overflow back to the pump chamber from the last module in line or a separate level control container.

in this iteration the pump res could also be the bulk tank.

but a float control makes more sense because it gives you an additional range of adjustment in order to correct for differing environmental conditions.

i've thought of perlite before with a piece of fiberglass screen over the perlite first and then an inch of pea gravel over that.

the gravel would not only keep the perlite from floating but also act as a top dressing to slow evaporation. and slow down bugs.

if you google "perlite culture" some of the top hits are from the university of edinburgh, where the technique was developed.

the technique consist of perlite in 36"48" long plastic bags 6-8" in diameter. they construct shallow v shaped cement trenches with only about a 4% grade to the center.

the bags are placed with one end up and one end down in the trench. they cut small slits right at the bottom end for drainage and typically 2-4 holes for plant plugs along the top.

at the very top they run a continuous drip, which runs down the bottom of the bag and out of the bottom slits.

this is enough to keep the perlite wet but not saturated.

the perched water table still forms but since the pwt exists in any given medium the same height regardless of container shape, the pwt is minimized to a few inches at the bottom of the trough.

in a ppk you should use a wave type pulse done frequently but in small amounts, just enough to never allow the medium to dry out.

using the level control also to dial in the correct moisture profile.

what is the "correct" moisture profile and how do you recognize it?

by observing your plants.

but you really should look around at auto parts stores a little more as i have found another brand of DE that i will show later today on my thread. it's better than the napa 8822 but don't tell IF about it as he's too big for his britches already.

and if you are having space problems in your tent go back to the 3.5 bucket for a top. single tailpiece, 7" perlite level which should be 2.5 gals. no holes in the sidewall. a piece of screen with rocks over that.

rock and roll!

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

Yay for insomnia, time to ponder!

Ok ive done the auto parts stores, they look at me like im crazy ... maybe they are right. As bobbles pointed out i am a giant turd
You guys have to remember that I do live in a different country and things you take for granted I just dont have access to, and the reverse as well.

The solution to making it all fit is to find a control res that fits my requirements and put both top buckets directly into that.
So its got to be long enough to fit 2 buckets into the roof, wide enough to fit a float valve alongside the tailpipes (and wide enough to not tip over) and tall enough to let the pump run without drying out. And its got to fit inside my 800mm x 800mm tent footprint.
Should be cake.

Perlite with a screen and rocks doesnt feel perfect to me, but its available now, i bought some perlite today, the rocks and screen i have, so thats PLAN A untill i can source PLAN B

And pulse VS wave i really dont care as long as it works. I have a timers that can do either. But if the wicking is working as intended, surely watering once ever 2 hours (or 4) shouldnt be a problem anyway? What about continious feed with low volume seeing as the perlite should drain exceedingly well?

As an aside ive seen brands of screened perlite turn to mush within weeks after being used and form a type of concrete sludge, its something i will be looking out for. The actual big chunks break apart rather than just washing fines to the bottom.

EDIT : For example i can get heaps of Fytocell cheap. No idea how many of you even have heard of it? http://www.fytogreen.com.au/products/fytocell.htm I think you yanks call it HydroFlakes.

and here is an old fav from one of the most amusing growers ever to grace a pot forum :

How not to grow dope by Al B. Fuct

1. Decide while stoned to become a weed baron
2. Plant leftover bagseeds and go looking for lights
3. Try to steal neighbor's floodlights, burn fingers, go to plan B after healing up
4. Buy incandescent halogen lights at OfficeJerks cos they look real bright and one blacklight over at the head shop cos it's purpleyness is cool as fuck and makes the Jimi Hendrix velvet poster glow something wicked
5. 4 out of 72 seeds sprout, fuckin ace!
6. All 4 get stretchy, fall over and die
7. Put the black light a little closer to cheer it up
8. Smoked the dried out seedling, gave me a headache, so I planted some more bagseeds
9. Dug out Uncle Bob's marijuana grow book from 1972, marveled at nail-thru-stem technique for improving potency
10. 9 out of 147 sprout, fuckin ace!
11. Put a pound of nails in salty water to get em good and rusty
12. All 9 get stretchy, fall over and die
13. I figured they wasn't getting enough light, so I stole granny's big ole heat lamp and a couple of headlights from some passing cars (damn they're hard to grab at stoplights)
14. Planted more seeds, put more bullshit and a couple of dead fish in soil mix this time (hey it worked for the Indians and the Pilgrims)
15. Neighbours complained about the shitty fish smell, I told them to rack off, so they called the cops, who confiscated all the 'evidence.'
16. Saw story on Fox News about wicked intarwebs sites about marijuana growing warping kids brains, figured I wasn't warped enough
17. Found pot growing website, figured I'd do a big favor for all those newbie idiots who'd never planted a seed and show em how to do it
18. Typed Uncle Bob's entire 1972 Yippie Underground growbook into the pot growing website, waited for praises to flow in
19. No one said nothing, so I typed it in again IN ALL CAPS SO THEY COULD READ IT BETTER
20. Decided I'd hang around and learn something, there's this guy who says his friend's uncle's brother in law once knew a guy who grew like POUNDAGE in an old refrigerator
21. Stole a refrigerator and put all my halogen lights in it along with a 5000 watt security light I found on top of a football stadium
22. Planted 693 more seeds in old coconut shells and put a half a box of Miracle Gro granules on each one
23. One sprouted and it screamed at me to kill it before it had to spend another second in that damn fridge
24. Gave up tryin to be a weed baron
25. Got stoned again decided to put the Arabs out of biz with a car the will run on leftover Mountain Dew
26. Broke into a vending machine and stole 900 cans of Mountain Dew
27. and so on...

 

[DHF]

Perlite does indeed break down Dave , and I`m pretty sure that`s why the preferred medium is the calcined clay/turface and DE.....so...

You`ll just haveta put it in the budget to replace the perlite as it breaks down every run if need be since that`s the only product you can source....

I never had any worries with the coarse/chunky perlite , but I washed the shit out of it before ever mixin with my coco , and I always recycled old medium to be remixed for the following run 10 weeks later......anyways.....

Good luck Bro...

Peace....Freds.......

 

[DamnUglyDogE]

Yay for insomnia, time to ponder!



How not to grow dope by Al B. Fuct

1. Decide while stoned to become a weed baron
2. Plant leftover bagseeds and go looking for lights
3. Try to steal neighbor's floodlights, burn fingers, go to plan B after healing up
4. Buy incandescent halogen lights at OfficeJerks cos they look real bright and one blacklight over at the head shop cos it's purpleyness is cool as fuck and makes the Jimi Hendrix velvet poster glow something wicked
5. 4 out of 72 seeds sprout, fuckin ace!
6. All 4 get stretchy, fall over and die
7. Put the black light a little closer to cheer it up
8. Smoked the dried out seedling, gave me a headache, so I planted some more bagseeds
9. Dug out Uncle Bob's marijuana grow book from 1972, marveled at nail-thru-stem technique for improving potency
10. 9 out of 147 sprout, fuckin ace!
11. Put a pound of nails in salty water to get em good and rusty
12. All 9 get stretchy, fall over and die
13. I figured they wasn't getting enough light, so I stole granny's big ole heat lamp and a couple of headlights from some passing cars (damn they're hard to grab at stoplights)
14. Planted more seeds, put more bullshit and a couple of dead fish in soil mix this time (hey it worked for the Indians and the Pilgrims)
15. Neighbours complained about the shitty fish smell, I told them to rack off, so they called the cops, who confiscated all the 'evidence.'
16. Saw story on Fox News about wicked intarwebs sites about marijuana growing warping kids brains, figured I wasn't warped enough
17. Found pot growing website, figured I'd do a big favor for all those newbie idiots who'd never planted a seed and show em how to do it
18. Typed Uncle Bob's entire 1972 Yippie Underground growbook into the pot growing website, waited for praises to flow in
19. No one said nothing, so I typed it in again IN ALL CAPS SO THEY COULD READ IT BETTER
20. Decided I'd hang around and learn something, there's this guy who says his friend's uncle's brother in law once knew a guy who grew like POUNDAGE in an old refrigerator
21. Stole a refrigerator and put all my halogen lights in it along with a 5000 watt security light I found on top of a football stadium
22. Planted 693 more seeds in old coconut shells and put a half a box of Miracle Gro granules on each one
23. One sprouted and it screamed at me to kill it before it had to spend another second in that damn fridge
24. Gave up tryin to be a weed baron
25. Got stoned again decided to put the Arabs out of biz with a car the will run on leftover Mountain Dew
26. Broke into a vending machine and stole 900 cans of Mountain Dew
27. and so on...

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[high life 45]

HL what size pumice do you use? Does it float? I know it's light... Where do you source it? Thank you.

I am using Vital Earths Pumice. They only have one size as far as I know. I did the standard wash and screen. Im sure pumice can be sourced for pretty cheap. D9 will have the best info as far as size goes..

Is there somewhat of a consensus formed for what material is best in a ppk regardless if you can source it or not?

D9 loves turface, I have yet to try it, but I am pretty sure that it is the preferred medium if you were to ask him. Although he is shy of titles, he is the Godfather of the PPK, or the PPK OG. I have access to it, just not as easily or as cheap as some of the other mediums. I have used floor dry up until recently.

After using pumice, I wont be using 8822 anymore unless I have to for some reason.
8822 breaks down much easier than the pumice, easily forming into the powder "earth"

Also, I have been successfully pulling overvegged plants out of a cloner and putting them into a ppk, with no transplant shock simply by trying to mirror the "spray time" in the cloner.
All of my easy cloners are hooked up to timers going on for 15 minutes and off for 15min.(otherwise the solution gets to warm from the pump being on)
When I put them into the ppk, I set the timer to come on for 30 seconds every 15 mins. The plants didnt even droop. About a week in you will notice a "root transition" water roots dying off to be replaced by air roots. Many of the lower leaves will yellow and die off, as new growth appears. As the plant matures I adjust the timer to come on once every 30 minutes and eventually once an hour. I let the on time go from 30 secs all the way to one minute.

HTH

 

[SecondAttempt]

This pumice looks promising... Dave you got any access to pumice down under?

HighLife, I see they sell 1 cu foot bags... how much (ballpark %) do you lose to screening? Does it break down? I didn't realize 8822 broke down, I thought it was reusable like Turface. I was getting ready to grab some 8822 this week now I'm unsure again. Maybe I'll just get Turface and stop fucking about.

For what it's worth though I stuck cuttings in 8822 yesterday and they look great today. I'm definitely ditching coco.

 

[DaveTheNewbie]

This pumice looks promising... Dave you got any access to pumice down under?

i havent looked hard yet, but its not something i have come across

I didn't realize 8822 broke down, I thought it was reusable like Turface.

same. I was putting alot of energy (and money) into DE thinking it was reusable.

 

[bobblehead]

That's why you go with perlite asshole. Its cheap, and readily available. Toss it when you're done... Or re-screen it. W/e. You don't think I've spent hours thinking about this? lol... Use perlite for now, keep looking for turface. Stop thinking so hard.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

 

[bobblehead]