FEED OR FLUSH IN THE LAST 2 WEEKS?

[charlie2000]

I get conflicting info on which is best. Most people seem to flush 2 weeks before harvest but some are saying to feed everything but nitrogen right up to harvest. Conventional wisdom says to flush to get rid of built up salts and stored nutes, otherwise you may get popping or crackling when you smoke or an unpleasant taste. On the other hand I read how some growers feed until the end because you are basically starving your plants at a time when they need those nutrients the most, when those buds need the nutes to plump up right before harvest. And that can somehow diminish the buds right at the critical end. I hate reading such confilcting info on these forums. Its on every forum I believe. Just would like to hear some experts with years of experience chime in on this. BTW I grow using a hempy bucket.

 

[Epiphyte]

I think its best to read your plants. If it is in desperate need of nutes, its best to give it something. But if its green as shit, a little plain water is better than feeding. I use molasses in the second to last week to hopefully give my soil one last feed to breakdown whatever is left in there. I think the main question is 'is it a bad thing to flush to much?' My opinion is yes. Its good to have a fine balance. Maybe you start to flush and the next day it seems the girls need more nutes. There is no reason not to hit them a little in the second to last week if they need it because too much of a flush can cause some harshness as well. But in the last 6 days, I would never feed!
Phyte

 

[Green Supreme]

Cut a piece off, dry it, puff it and see where the plant is at. I can usually puff at 4 days from chop. Peace GS

 

[Wooderson]

I'm in Coco and I flush after 35 days, IMO the plants have all the nutes they need build up in the rootball. If you want choice flowers a minimum of 2 weeks is nessasary, I would do 3 week tho. If you're feeding then right, they will be fine & happy with a long flush!!

 

[MileHighGuy]

What are you trying to flush? I mean, you can't take anything physically out of the plant.... I know the farmers market veggies aren't flushed, but if you have a salt build up and need to clean the roots that is a different story.

Since you're asking.... don't let all your hard work go to waste. I'd say feed em till harvest.

 

[3dDream]

"I know the farmers market veggies aren't flushed" - They aren't smoked either.

I will feed plain water the last few weeks to:

Use less nutes. Why feed a plant you are gonna chop in a week?

Ripen the plant. Chlorophyll is your enemy. Plain water can help a plant ripen up and lose it's green color. Why wait a year cure for blonde bud when the plant can do it for you faster?

I should warn you that I have see sativas throw a nanner the day I gave them plain water. It does stress a plant, but that is the point. I don't want it to think there is a steady supply of food, I want it to wrap up it's cycle.

If you are hydro you should flush because you can.

Experiment.

 

[Snook]

I've too been pondering this question charlie. I'm thinking that it depends on how you raised the girls. if they were brought up on 1200/1500ppms, then by all means, flush. I run 600ppms start to finish. the bud has never had any ill affects. I believe that they benifit in yield with no loss in taste... but! I've never flushed, so i know nothing first hand.

 

[chefboy6969]

FLUSH, FLUSH and FLUSH and then FLUSH some more...the worst thing you could do to your crop...is not flush...If you are a seasoned smoker..you can tell the difference between, a proper flush and one that was just kinda flushed...the aromas and flavours really come out after a proper FLUSH

peace
Chefboy

 

[midwestHIGHS]

flush them bitches.

 

[MileHighGuy]

Seriously, one person here prove that you can flush anything out of the plant.... I hate bad information being passed around as if it's the gospel truth.

Where is the damn proof!

What exactly are you flushing out of the plant? How does it work?

I swear everyone in horticulture has to be laughing at all the stoners flushing their plants.

Flushing is to clean the roots or the media.... not to clean out the plant.... the plant is made of said nutrients.

Annual Flowering plants will yellow and finish all on their own, it's like the plant has done this more than we have.

 

[MileHighGuy]

"I know the farmers market veggies aren't flushed" - They aren't smoked either.

I will feed plain water the last few weeks to:

Use less nutes. Why feed a plant you are gonna chop in a week?

Ripen the plant. Chlorophyll is your enemy. Plain water can help a plant ripen up and lose it's green color. Why wait a year cure for blonde bud when the plant can do it for you faster?

I should warn you that I have see sativas throw a nanner the day I gave them plain water. It does stress a plant, but that is the point. I don't want it to think there is a steady supply of food, I want it to wrap up it's cycle.

If you are hydro you should flush because you can.

Experiment.

The plant finishes on it's own... rushing a good thing make inferior quality. If it is still green and the trichomes aren't ready then don't chop it. Of course flush, and watch it all die... I guess that could be called "finishing up"

 

[SooperSmurph]

I'ma have to side with MileHigh on this, especially if you're talking about a properly formulated nutrient program that features a product which prevents salt buildup.

Two elements react in cannabis when it is burned, nitrogen, and sulfur, and if you are not using excessive amounts of these nutrients at the end of your flowering cycle, you usually won't have the problems people associate with "unflushed" pot.

 

[MileHighGuy]

Thanks SooperSmurph

Sulfur -

From http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/support/library/ff/S_Basics.htm

Toxicity

Sulfur toxicity for practical purposes should be considered as non-existent. Excessive applications most often result in a depression of soil pH and an increase of the problems that occur with the pH decrease. In fact, sulfur uptake is reduced as the pH of the soil decreases.

Nitrogen: I agree with Sooper and I think soil growers with bottled nutrients would have this issue more if he/she harvests to early because the excessive Nitrogen delayed things.... I do believe most hydro peeps are stopping nitrogen at the flip or by week 4.

Here is some awesome information about the quality determinations for Dried and Cured Tobacco: http://www.suncotobacco.com/leaf-cigarette.php

Notice that higher nitrogen increases the amount of nicotine but effects taste poorly.

Interesting to note that Nicotine is a Secondary Metabolite and so is THC.

Combustibility:

Combustibility or burning quality of tobacco involves several criteria like fire holding capacity, rate of burn, evenness or completeness of burn and character of residual ash. Leaf burn is very commonly used to determine the burning quality of cured leaf. This test is done by touching a piece of manually stretched pre-conditioned leaf to glowing nichrome wire and noting number of seconds the glow continues. Usually 3-5 seconds burn is considered to be satisfactory. Rates of burn vary with different types of tobacco. The cigar filler because of its thickness is slow burning. In the cigarette a free, more rapid combustion takes place due to the small diameter of the filler and specially fine shredding of leaf which increases surface exposure. Factors affecting combustibility are both physical and chemical in nature. Among the physical characteristics, micro structure of leaf is more important. Thick heavy leaf with fine texture due to a close cell packing would have a poor burn since there would be less air space between the cells and consequently poor aeration during burning. Good burning leaf has a loose open structure having high porosity which was likely to promote burn by better aeration. Good burn is always exhibited by leaf containing high potassium and low chloride. Calcium and magnesium control completion of burning process and production of white ash.

› Total Nitrogen Content:

: It is generally considered that flavor and taste of smoke is correlated with the nitrogenous constituents. Flue-cured tobacco containing 1.6 to 2.3% total nitrogen gives the most satisfying smoke. Higher nitrogen content of tobacco would result in, apart from curing difficulty, deep brown colored trashy leaf which shatters readily and it has flat-insipid tasting smoke. Generally high level of nitrogen is associated with high level of nicotine. Lower nitrogen content would result in `washed out', pale colored leaf, lacking in rich color characteristic of good tobacco.

› Nicotine Content:

Nicotine content of tobacco by virtue of its stimulatory effect on the smoker is next important constituent. It is considered that a nicotine level of 1.75 to 2.0% in FCV tobacco is most satisfactory. The nornicotine in acceptable tobacco should not exceed 5% of total alkaloids. High proportion of nornicotine in cigarette leaf leads to abnormal and objectionable smoke flavor due to pyrolysis of nornicotine into myosmine.

› Nitrogen/Nicotine Ratio:

The ratio of nitrogen to nicotine is assumed to give some chemical balance within the leaf. The higher the ratio the less desirable the tobacco because it tends to be light bodied. A ratio in the neighborhood of 1.35 gives way to paleness of color, slickness of texture and a general lack of desirable physical characters and deficiency in aroma. In fact, a value exceeding 1.0 has been ascribed as unbalanced. Too low a value (below 0.5), on the other hand frequently may be considered undesirable because the tobacco is heavy bodied and associated with high nicotine content and low level of reducing sugars. A range of 0.6 - 0.7 ratio has been adjudged as most desirable in medium to light bodied matured tobacco.

› Reducing Sugars:

Higher content of reducing sugars in flue cured tobacco is undesirable as it imparts to the smoke an acidic character. Lower content imparts alkalinity to smoke due to high nitrogenous constituents. During smoking, sugars are burnt out as CO2 and water, thus helping to neutralize free base and increase moisture content in smoke and so act as an emollient, if present in excessive quality.

› Reducing Sugars/Nicotine Ratio:

The ratio of sugar to nicotine would give a balance of opposing effects and thus serve as a good smoking quality indicator. A high ratio may tend to indicate mildness and smoothness while a very low ratio may be indicative of harsh irritating smoke. If the ratio is too high, it may indicate that the tobacco is too mild to be acceptable to smoker. If cured leaf contains both low level of nicotine and sugars as generally is the case with Indian flue-cured tobaccos, the ratio appear to be comfortable. High sugar content consistent with nicotine level is the most desirable feature for smoking quality in flue-cured tobacco.

› Carbohydrate/Protein Ratio:

: The ratio of carbohydrate to proteins is known as Shmuk number and the ratio of carbohydrate to total nitrogen is known as Kovalenko coefficient. These ratios will show similar effect of reducing sugar to nicotine.

› Chlorides:

High level of chlorine in leaf inhibits leaf burn or combustibility. The chlorine content of leaf must be preferably less than 1.5% but should never exceed 2%. Chlorine content is positively correlated with deterioration of color. High chloride content in leaf leads to dull muddy orange color with sour or linoleum smell. Further, such leaf due to its moisture holding capacity bruises easily and tends to develop `off-color'. These characteristics render this type of leaf to be of low value for cigarette manufacture. Chlorine acts as a negative combustion catalyst in tobacco.

› Potassium:

Potassium content in the cured leaf was found to improve the burning quality of tobacco. An adequate level of potassium in cured leaf tends to off-set the deleterious effects of high chlorine on burning quality. Potassium acts as a mineral catalyst and oxygen carrier in promoting burn of tobacco leaf. Cured leaf lacking in potassium content would result in poor colored trashy leaf and looses its luster which may not have any commercial value.

 

[Loosey]

I just think that plant needs nitrogen all the way in its lifecycle right to the end, specially in hydro since there is no medium to store any nutrients. I cant say that nitrogen slows flowering, not in my grows using hydroponics. Im using 1:1:1 right to the flush. I think that in flower it really needs nitrogen if you want your yields to be big and the plant to grow.

For the OP i would flush plant even if its grown with organic nutes. 10days goes just fine in hydro, couple extra days won't hurt. I have Low-pressure aero and i just started to flush. This time im going 14days.

 

[moodster]

I flush for 10 days in coco

 

[LyryC]

Hold up - Ya'll are telling me a product like Final Phase from Advance Nutrients has no meaning? I can't recall a single nute companies feeding schedules not advising to flush before harvest.

I am so confused because its always been "flush"

But MileHigh you have firsthand experience with no flush?

 

[Hammerhead]

I do what I like not what other what me to do. I can tell the diferance between flushed and not flushed.. I flush to start the senescence process. If I waited for the plant to do it I would be waiting way passed prime harvest times.

Those of you that flush your not doing anything wrong. Don't let others make you feel like you're making a mistake. Some that run 100% organics wont flush. I can still tell if its flushed Organic or not.

 

[greekgardner]

I do what I like not what other what me to do. I can tell the diferance between flushed and not flushed.. I flush to start the senescence process. If I waited for the plant to do it I would be waiting way passed prime harvest times.

Those of you that flush your not doing anything wrong. Don't let others make you feel like you're making a mistake. Some that run 100% organics wont flush. I can still tell if its flushed Organic or not.

what he said.............

 

[MileHighGuy]

Many experienced growers will continue practices out of habit even when there is no evidence to support them.

Here is another group of people that can taste everything.

http://io9.com/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-heres-why-496098276

Hold up - Ya'll are telling me a product like Final Phase from Advance Nutrients has no meaning? I can't recall a single nute companies feeding schedules not advising to flush before harvest.

I am so confused because its always been "flush"

But MileHigh you have firsthand experience with no flush?

Don't worry LyryC! Those flushing products absolutely have a purpose.

If you are experiencing lockout because of too much salt in the medium due to synthetic nutrients.... you can grab a flushing product and wash the medium and roots off.... this release of salts will allow the plant to flourish again as it can now uptake nutrients without all of the salt buildup. EDIT: Water should work just fine

But, to say that nutrients that have already been used by the plant... that have already been converted into plant material should somehow be drawn out of the plant.... that is crazy talk.

Among the experienced growers like hammerhead, the argument for flushing moves into another territory.....

Often times these more experienced growers are no longer claiming that it actually "Flushes" anything out of the plant......

Instead, they will argue that the plant is going to keep eating no matter what.... and needs to "cannabalize" itself so as to actually remove the last of the stored up nutrients in the plant. This would effectively change the taste from "Green" to "Finished"

The above statement is really the Meat and Potatoes of this argument and what hammerhead was discussing as senescence.

We are all on a quest for the best cannabis... but that is a very personal thing... so to each their own.... everyone should grow how they personally think it's the best, and I think we can all agree that the industry treats a final flush as if it is the make or break of any bud worth smoking.

Excess Nitrogen will pro-long flowering and negatively effect taste.

As Hammerhead said, you can force senescence or you can wait for it to happen naturally.... the only difference is that I am 100% positive that waiting for nature does NOT take my plant out of peak harvest window.... rather, it makes it better. I'm in no hurry. Organic soil is different, but that doesn't mean that I'm not susceptible to the same challenges. If I were to mix my soil wrong and plant in it to soon.... I would be praying for a good flush, but in organics it just won't do anything at all.

 

[blastfrompast]

Ok, I run the pure blend pro line. with a few extra's tosssed in mostly

I have run the same strain and cut nutes down to Zero anywhere from 30 to 3 days before harvest..I like about 2 weeks as I get a nice fade, flavors increase and the bud burns cleaner...no canoeing lol


I have also given a bump of N to prolong the flowering period(seems to force new budding growth) to increase the final weight of the chop...The buds turn out wierd, with the bottoms all done, but the tops around 7-10 days early, but it puts on an extra 10-15% a light...Tastes the same...the quality sucks if your smoking the tops tho..I did give them a bit of kinetin also..lol

Not my thing anymore, but if your doing a last run and want a bigger tally for comercial purposes it has it's uses.

Had hermi flowers pop 2 weeks before the chop also on a dead stable strain....but at that point it didnt matter.