Brown spots on leaves, not from spraying or mites?

[SilverIce9]

So I have these plants, right...

They haven't been sprayed, nor do they have spider mites.

Lights - 4 1000 watt HPS
Exhaust - 10 inch vortex
System - RDWC
Roots - White and healthy
PH - Stable at 5.8-5.9
PPM - Stable at 930-1000 (.5 conv)
Nutes - Lucas formula
Veg/Flower - 3rd week veg
Strain - Blue Dream
Air temp - 70F
Water temp - 72F

Deficiency started 2 days ago. Nothing changed in the system except one thing....

The water has been constantly at 68F until 2 days ago. I turned off second AC system downstairs to keep it from shocking my newly transplanted clones down there. Since that cold air is vented up into my bigger room, my water temps rose 4 degrees. I don't think that is causing the problem though, since water is clear and roots are white as printer paper.

The only additive I run is h202 daily. Other than that, it's lucas only. Water is RO, comes out of tap at 5-8ppm. My carbon filter is pretty old though, so I was thinking maybe chloramine isn't being filtered out? Is that possible? Where I am located, I know chloramine is being used. Any advice would be great. I am totally at a loss. I heard this is the place to go for expert advice.

I attached pics, but here is a link to my journal if it helps anyone to see daily pics of the garden .

http://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/646885-ebb-grow-buckets-converted-into.html

 

[SilverIce9]

Well, I guess technically speaking...

Day 10

It's 3 am. I had to stay up to foliar feed with epsom salts at 1tbsp/gall with tap water to see if it's a magnesium deficiency. That's when my lights go out. Thank god I don't have to work in the morning. Here are some better pics . Hopefully somebody takes interest in this!

 

[Swan Lee]

A Calcium deficiency is a cause of Brown spots on leaves.Hopefully the Epsoms will sort it out.

 

[SilverIce9]

Interesting theory on the problem.

Interesting theory on the problem.

I think it mights have been caused by a burn, or nutrient imbalance in the buckets themselves. I pulled an all nighter last night observing the plants and watching the nightly "drain" cycle closely.

I had the drain setting on my ebb/gro system set to drain for 30 minutes, pushing all the water from the buckets into my 105gallon rez. This is what "recirculates" my DWC system, and it only happens once a day during the night cycle.

Keep in mind my Bluelab meter sits permanently in my brain.

Well, 30 minutes of drain only drained half my system, so the water in each bucket is not getting properly mixed ever day. This means that my meter reading in the brain is not very accurate, and doesn't properly reflect pH or PPM throughout the system.

After changing my "drain" setting to 1 hour, my PPM read 1050, and my pH was unchanged at 5.9.

I think I might have been looking a early stage nute-burn, or a imbalance cause a lockout of cal or mag.

After my foliar feed last night of epsom salts + tap water (my poor man's cal+mag), the problem doesn't seem to have progressed much at all. I noticed my leaf tips curling down on fan leaves. Pretty sure that is a sure sign of nute-burn/lockout.

I dropped my PPM (.5) to 950 last night while all the water was drained into my 105 gallon rez. I'll monitor closely and add pics daily.

Thank you for the second set of eyes .

 

[SilverIce9]

Forgot....
pH - 5..8
PPM - 950-960
Water - 68F

 

[GF-Z]

Well, I guess technically speaking...

Day 10

It's 3 am. I had to stay up to foliar feed with epsom salts at 1tbsp/gall with tap water to see if it's a magnesium deficiency. That's when my lights go out. Thank god I don't have to work in the morning. Here are some better pics . Hopefully somebody takes interest in this!

Strange it looks mostly something locked out it because plant looks healthy in other pics. I am reading about this s.. More than 2months around here trying to figure out my own... Just what i wanted to say, its not just only calcium, because calcium shows almost burnt red dots around veins like some random places in dots. If i would shoot randomly i would say its some issues with micro imbalance. Dont know why, but it looks on the leaf picture(closer one).
Most complicated thing is that hydro is very unstable then plants go into fast thriving stange, where whole future mass and roots is built. If you miss correct PH (ok maybe gh has chelates, whey absorbs much better without ph requiment) plant start drinking wrong way, acumulation -> antagonism ( like p <- fe ) -> lockout -> deeper -> electricity still goes on -> last stash smoked out -> starving and starting new run ... But sometimes plant can drain all small amounts of micro nutrients which controls other micro which makes whole plant from cell to structure. Its hard to say what is what...

my last disaster run with heavy feeders in 4bucket vert rdwc and GH lucas ended with 1oz popcorn from 600 which is joke because on 6/12 all plants got burned and never recovered... That made thing wtf.. I vegged then in canna vega with 1.3 without any burn and not full lucas killed them. Not even flush chemicals helped. So keep in mind better wash everything and start over slowly increasing ec. I dunno is it healthy way mixing nutes but its up to you. look at new shoots, they show you.

 

[medicalmj]

A Calcium deficiency is a cause of Brown spots on leaves.Hopefully the Epsoms will sort it out.

Just a little correction, Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate (MgSO4). Chemistry aside, it probably is a good fix to use as Mg issues are usually in mid-older growth whereas Ca usually is mid-newer.

Besides just not having enough, Mg issues can also be had from low pH and excess Potassium (K).

The Lucus formula contains plenty of Mg since the Bloom contains 1.5% Mg, but it makes the overall pretty high in K.

 

[BullnAChinaShop]

FYI - If your using Lucas (salt based nutes) chloramine won't matter a lick. I use maxibloom and I do nothing to treat my water right out of the tap. Chloramine is bad for the microherd, but if you aren't relying on the microherd for nutrients, then it doesn't matter much.

 

[SilverIce9]

Hey, really appreciate all the input. I'm pretty sure my issues had to due with the lack of recirculating in my "recirculating" DWC haha.

I know it isn't the Lucas formula. Thats the great thing about using it IMO. It lets my dial in the rest of my system before I decide to mess with additives, etc. Once I finish a grow from start to finish without an issue, maybe I'll experiment around a little.

I took about 3 years off of growing before starting up again, so I know I'm a little rusty. Plus I'm transitioning from ebb/flow tables in hydroton to DWC, so I'm in unfamiliar waters.

Pics incoming later today showing my bottom trimming .

 

[medicalmj]

Hey, really appreciate all the input. I'm pretty sure my issues had to due with the lack of recirculating in my "recirculating" DWC haha.

I know it isn't the Lucas formula. Thats the great thing about using it IMO. It lets my dial in the rest of my system before I decide to mess with additives, etc. Once I finish a grow from start to finish without an issue, maybe I'll experiment around a little.

I took about 3 years off of growing before starting up again, so I know I'm a little rusty. Plus I'm transitioning from ebb/flow tables in hydroton to DWC, so I'm in unfamiliar waters.

Pics incoming later today showing my bottom trimming .

Your plants look great overall. And won't I sweat it. What would do is (which you probably have done) just do a res change. I've caught myself either not adding or adding wrong stuff. Once I used the GH down (orange like bloom) instaed of bloom and it took a minute to figure out why my pH was 3.0, LOL. Best not to be too fucked up when mixing nutes.

I use GH flora, but just a little diff then the lucas, but really close. I've done dwc, rdwc, ebb&flow, RW slabs top feed, had CAP ebb&grow, aeroponics, NFT and some other hybrids that I don't even know how to explain. And from time to time in these solutions spots appear on healthy plants. Maybe an accumulation of metals, lack of, who knows. I then keep an eye on new growth. If it really is a def/lockout you may see some purple on stems that correspond to the time period of issue.

BTW, I built my first DIY top feed hydro back in 93 and just loved experimenting w new systems. And oddly, I recently tried coco in 5 gal airpots and I love it. Got it set up w top feed DTW. Can't give up on some semblance of a hydro system.

Oh yeah, nice set up.

 

[SilverIce9]

Wow, medicalm. I hope that one day I'll have run all those different types of systems. I guess the rez change is my backup option at this point. It's hard to tell if the problem has progressed or not. Especially since I just did my first big bottom trim. Took off about a contractor trash bag worth of green stuff.

Hopefull all is well though. Here are pics from today, including some macro shots a affected leaf.

 

[SilverIce9]

It's been a few days now since it started

It's been a few days now since it started

Here are pics from today. Looks like the problem isn't spreading much. I'm going to take daily pics of an individual affected leaf so it's easier to track.

 

[medicalmj]

Is that an ebb & grow converted? I thought I saw a controller and those buckets look like 2-3 gal. I did that w my cap ebb & grow and basically reversed the cycle so they were full and would pump back to res every hour or so. This allowed for homogenization, could check nutes, and if ur return res is large enough you can chill it.

 

[SilverIce9]

Yup

Yup

Is that an ebb & grow converted? I thought I saw a controller and those buckets look like 2-3 gal. I did that w my cap ebb & grow and basically reversed the cycle so they were full and would pump back to res every hour or so. This allowed for homogenization, could check nutes, and if ur return res is large enough you can chill it.

You got it. It's a Greentrees system converted into a DWC, and it's identical to the CAP system. Buckets are 2 gallons. It takes about 50 minutes to drain though, so I only do it once during the night cycle. I'm afraid to dry out the roots during the daytime. 50 minutes of drain + 15 minutes to fill it again scares me.

 

[SilverIce9]

Day 13

Day 13

Day 13
in the system

 

[sylk855]

Cal mag or kalium.

 

[Swan Lee]

Just a little correction, Epsom salt is magnesium sulfate (MgSO4). Chemistry aside, it probably is a good fix to use as Mg issues are usually in mid-older growth whereas Ca usually is mid-newer.

Besides just not having enough, Mg issues can also be had from low pH and excess Potassium (K).

The Lucus formula contains plenty of Mg since the Bloom contains 1.5% Mg, but it makes the overall pretty high in K.

Thanks for the correction,thats something else i've learnt today...I'm also using the GH Flora Gro 3 parts and wonder if i should add CalMag sometimes to the mix,and if so,how often ?

 

[SilverIce9]

Syl - Problem was caused by lack of circulation in the system. This created imbalances in each bucket, causing the lockout. Problem stopped as soon as I lengthened the drain period in my system.

Swan - Are you in veg or bloom? Are you running 3(G)2(M)1(B) ?

 

[medicalmj]

Thanks for the correction,thats something else i've learnt today...I'm also using the GH Flora Gro 3 parts and wonder if i should add CalMag sometimes to the mix,and if so,how often ?

Glad to share the little chemistry I know. I too use the GH Flora 3 part and normally supplemental Ca and Mg are suggested/required. But I'm in coco and I use a little less than 1/2 tsp/gal of their Cal-Mag (2 tsp/5gal). With the 3 part, the micro has 5% Ca, and the Bloom has 1.5% Mg. You won't get those higher % in their other lines however.

 

[SilverIce9]

Wouldn't adding cal-mag depend on what ratio Swan is using the GH 3part (ratio of bottle to bottle)?