Can we talk Butane please....

[gaiusmarius]

while in Ams talking to a lot of experienced people i came across the theory that 99% refined butane is not in fact = to a tin full with 99% pure butane. i was told that only about 75 % of the contents of a tin of butane is actually 99% refined butane, that in fact up to 25% of the contents of the can of butane are other substances. has anyone ever hear anything like this before? am i misunderstanding what this would mean? any of you chemists out there ahem.......Grey Wolf, please explain this if indeed there is something to explain.

thanks

gaius

 

[GDK]

Propane?

Stay Safe

 

[CarefulGrower]

I think you are talking about 'pure' N-butane tanks, but if you are talking about triple-refined cans, they are a mix as n-butane needs a propellant I believe. Here is the MSDS for colibri. 78% butane 22% propane.

http://www.gcelectronics.com/order/msds/224.pdf

 

[PuertoviejoKL]

Wow I never had a clue, had never questioned that it could be a mix of butane and propane.

 

[RegisPhilburn1]

Ya i believe that most brands of butane canisters have around 20% propane, which is added as a propellant, otherwise a can of pure n-tane wouldnt have very much pressure and would need to be heated to dispense out of the canister.Most brands also contain a significant amount of iso-butane.

The components we should worry about is the possibility of added mercaptens and/or sulfer compounds as well as parrifins and lubricants.

Vetor MSDS

If possible stay away from the brands produced in KOREA (Power 5, Vector, etc.)
and try to by the brands made in England (Collibri, Newport, Lucienne) as the english chemical safety standards are much more rigorous.

 

[Infinitesimal]

while in Ams talking to a lot of experienced people i came across the theory that 99% refined butane is not in fact = to a tin full with 99% pure butane. i was told that only about 75 % of the contents of a tin of butane is actually 99% refined butane, that in fact up to 25% of the contents of the can of butane are other substances. has anyone ever hear anything like this before? am i misunderstanding what this would mean? any of you chemists out there ahem.......Grey Wolf, please explain this if indeed there is something to explain.

thanks

gaius

if you are referring to the butane cans (lighter fluid) then yes... for butane to burn in a lighter properly it needs to have propane added... plus they add the other nasty stuff so that you can detect gas leaks in the air that don't purge and actually concentrate in the hash oil.


pure N-butane tanks from the gas supply shop should be pure butane, no intended for use in lighters, butane is used industrially as a solvent to make all kinds off essential oil extracts for the fragrance/food industries as well as it being used in cooking sprays so subsequently they need to have pure butane for those uses... so I believe it exists ...

the cleanest lighter fuel I have found is Xikar with less than 30ppm impurities

 

[midwestHIGHS]

butane, isobutane, propane, mercaptans, sulfur compounds, paraffins, are usually the components of most canned butane.

 

[hobb3s93]

look up airgas freon 600, i beleive that is their food grade n-butane. u need a liscense to go to them in cali but ive heard its different in other states.

but on canned butane is propane harder to remove from ur extract than butane? or does it simply leave a bad flavor?

doesnt purity in buatne also refer to parrafin wax which clogs high quality lighters?
u know when ur spraying and u get that candlewax honey comb stuff in the liquid butane? ive always wondered if thats parafin wax
either way im not one to speak i only use power 5x
i need to get on the absolute train and stop smoking impurities !!

 

[midwestHIGHS]

when you go to a gas supply company they don't usually sell "food" grade or "medical" grade n-butane, but commercially pure, instrument grade and research grade.

 

[Infinitesimal]

when you go to a gas supply company they don't usually sell "food" grade or "medical" grade n-butane, but commercially pure, instrument grade and research grade.

and which one is the cleanest/least polar?

 

[midwestHIGHS]

last time I checked cp grade 99%, instrument 99.5% and research 99.9 %.

 

[Infinitesimal]

either one sounds pure enough to me

 

[gaiusmarius]

so if i get this right, the propane gas added to the butane tins is not a problem for oil making purposes? so essentially it's the mercaptans, sulfur compounds and paraffin that we need to think about? so how much of the can consists of those later listed additives?

 

[Gray Wolf]

while in Ams talking to a lot of experienced people i came across the theory that 99% refined butane is not in fact = to a tin full with 99% pure butane. i was told that only about 75 % of the contents of a tin of butane is actually 99% refined butane, that in fact up to 25% of the contents of the can of butane are other substances. has anyone ever hear anything like this before? am i misunderstanding what this would mean? any of you chemists out there ahem.......Grey Wolf, please explain this if indeed there is something to explain.

thanks

gaius

Besides n-Butane, those other substances are typically Isobutane and Propane in varying amounts. Like n-Butane, they both have low toxitity and are not an issue from a health stand point.

If it is being used in an open system, higher propane content will result in higher gas losses and lower yield, because propane boils at -42C/-44F and because it extracts less in the first place.

It does extract a blonder product however.

 

[Gray Wolf]

so if i get this right, the propane gas added to the butane tins is not a problem for oil making purposes? so essentially it's the mercaptans, sulfur compounds and paraffin that we need to think about? so how much of the can consists of those later listed additives?

-0-! Zero point zero ethyl mercaps are added to lighter fuel typically used for extraction, because it tastes and smells like rotten egg. It is primarily added to stove fuels for leak detection.

 

[mda232]

Hey gray, I've read that ALL butane shipped on American highways HAS to have ethyl mercaptan to detect leaks, is that true? (obviously this would include lighter fuel)

 

[Gray Wolf]

Hey gray, I've read that ALL butane shipped on American highways HAS to have ethyl mercaptan to detect leaks, is that true? (obviously this would include lighter fuel)

Not true.

Cutting to the chase, we can sense ethyl mercaptan down to 2.8 parts per billionth as a rotten egg taste and smell. The whole purpose is to add enough so that we can smell it, should there be a leak. That we can neither taste or smell its presence in lighter butane is a dead give away that it isn't there.

To put it into perspective, most people can taste and smell gasoline at 130 parts per millionth, with gifted noses and tastes as low as about 22 ppm. As ya'll know, a part per billionth is 1000 times less than a part per millionth.

 

[midwestHIGHS]

I have read quite a few reports of different brands of lighter fuel refills that smelled like rotten eggs and made oil that never lost the smell. I have actually had the unfortunate pleasure to see some at a festival, the guy busted out his dish of gooey baby poop looking wax, what appeared to be still purging in the dish and the rotten egg smell was so overpowering I started feeling nauseous. Another time I was filling up my torch with some lucienne out side and my gf walks up, gets a wif of the butane and goes smells like farts. I for one smell a slight stench with all canned butane, some more, some less, but not one has been competely odorless. I do not detect any taste or smell in the final extract though, thats with using lucienne, vector.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Even though I'm a wolf, my ancient nose buds aren't as sharp as they once were, but I can smell only the light whiff of butane with the canned fuels that we use when Instrument grade is unavailable.

Like Propane, Butane is sometimes listed as an odorless gas, but it isn't. That I can smell the butane, but no ethyl mercaptans, and the fact that I can still detect farts, which are high in mercaptans, suggests that my nose hasn't totally abandoned me.

Picking a brand without ethyl mercaps should be as easy as following ones nose and taste buds.

Not only are ethyl mercaps detectable at the levels used for an odorant in petroleum gases, or it wouldn't serve the purpose, it is concentrated into the extracted concentrate, so it really does putrify the end product.

I haven't tried all of the different canned lighter fuel brands available, but I'm not unique in my abilities to detect ethyl mercaptans, and believe the folks using the brands typically used for extraction, when they tell me they don't detect it in either the butane or their end products.

It is ghastly enough that I know most of them couldn't miss its presence, and why would they lie?

A bigger question might be, even if it is present, and at undetectable levels by our senses, why are we concerned? It doesn't become a health concern until it is about a thousand times more concentrated that our senses take to detect it. If so, mankind wouldn't have survived the first round of farts in a crowded cave, cause mercaptans is what makes farts stink.

A good choice for a leak detection odorant, don't you think?

EXPOSURE LIMITS:
ETHYL MERCAPTAN:
10 ppm (25 mg/m3) OSHA ceiling
0.5 ppm (1.3 mg/m3) OSHA TWA (vacated by 58 FR 35338, June 30, 1993)
0.5 ppm ACGIH TWA
0.5 ppm (1.3 mg/m3) NIOSH recommended ceiling 15 minute(s)

http://www.mathesongas.com/pdfs/msds/MAT09070.pdf

 

[mack 10]

kinda puts me off blasting...
umm more info is needed.
so if you where in the UK what type of butane is cleanest,
and purges fully? without leaving all these nastys? and where can I get it?
should I just smell it, leaving any that have the fart gas smell?
mack.