Dolomitic lime and EWC to maintain correct pH. Newb help please.

[straightdank420]

Hey guys. New to the whole organic side of growing. I have some babies that are in happy frog, looking fairly well. Recently my ph pen pooped on me, and started giving suspect readings. At this stage I'd like to put the pens away, period...From what are the understand if your medium is fully fortified with earthworm castings, oyster shell and lime you don't have to worry about pH. My question is, can I use dolomitic lime and earthworm castings as a top dress as a means of keeping my ph in an optimal range, given the acidity of my ACTs? I see plenty of folks using dolomitic lime to correct a medium that is too acidic, but in my case, how much lime would I top dress to slightly offset pH drift from feeding. And when would I have too top dress again?

Any help is greatly appeeciated.

 

[Weird Jimmy]

I'm pretty sure the dolomite lime needs to be mixed globally to control your pH levels... What are you watering through that's making your pH fall so much? In an organic grow, if your soil pH is right from the jump, then it should maintain for the entire grow. Typically it's synthetic nutrients that swing the pH of soil in a container. Avoid them and you should be fine.

 

[bigshrimp]

Your going to have limited success using ewc topdress to maintain ph. A topdress will be good for the plants, just don't overdo it bagged ewc can easily turn the top of your pots to mud.

Frequent ACTs may give you some sort of buffering ability.

Do not DL topdress.

 

[xmobotx]

when i have used lime to effect it has been by shaking it up/mixing it w/ the water and not top-dressing

sometimes when you have a problem and you know thats the problem it will work to correct the issue BUT; you really should not have that issue in the 1st place

dont go by the meter though go by the plants and maybe use the meter to confirm a problem

a properly prepared mix requires no meter

 

[straightdank420]

Hey guys. Thanks for the advise. The happy frog soil worked solid rights outta the bag, but after second irrigation of a solution consisting of: brewed for 12-18 hours
14 ml supertea
4 ml neptune harvest kelp
.5 ml Sea Green
.5 ml Earth Jice micro
1 tsp molasses
1/2 cup EWC
Roots Oregonism

Per gallon, I began to see my petioles turn red. Growth is still solid, but I 've always thought of red stemmi ng as an indicator of lockout. To be honest I couldnt tell you if the fluxuation is up or down, as I cant trust this pen. But I did a drip test for the ph of the Roots Organics Indoor Potting Soil I'll be transplantng into, and thats solid out the bag.

 

[Neo 420]

The practice of using dolo and oyster shells is used by a lot of canna growers to "lime" their peat because it can be so acidic. I have other thoughts on this. I do use oysters shells, crab shells and gypsum but I use them for nutrients and other secondary benefits, none of which are for PH control.
Dolo has been completely dropped from my list because of it mag/cal ratio's and soil binding qualities. (Some use gypsum to counter the dolo binding effects)
Having proper amounts of humus as well as microbes that have formed a symbiotic relationship with your plants will maintain proper PH levels. The science behind it can be difficult to explain. But that symbiotic relationship the plant and microbes formed will swing the PH to what it needs to uptake the proper nutrient.

Hey guys. Thanks for the advise. The happy frog soil worked solid rights outta the bag, but after second irrigation of a solution consisting of: brewed for 12-18 hours
14 ml supertea
4 ml neptune harvest kelp
.5 ml Sea Green
.5 ml Earth Jice micro
1 tsp molasses
1/2 cup EWC
Roots Oregonism

IMO ..Overkill

The simplest of tea's are the best and ensures you don't suppress microbe growth. Remember tea's are to replenish or add microbes to your soil. They are not to add nutrients. IMO nutrients should be top dressed or better yet added into the mix upon soil creation and been through the process of nutrient recycling. (Or added into your compost or wormbin, then upon completion added to your soil mix) Nutes and microbes don't do well when brewed in a brewer.

1 cup HIGH QUALITY EWC/Compost
1/4 or lower kelp meal
2 tbs fish hydrolize
1/3 cup molasses
5 gallon water
Proper aeration is important!!

Brew time will be determine by temp as well as other factors. (need a scope for absolute verification) but generally 30 to 36 for nutrient cycling (courtesy MM)
Check out http://www.microbeorganics.com/ for more information on brewing tea's.

You will feel much better when you learn to drop the ph pen!!

 

[xmobotx]

i m totally w/ neo above there and my tea is even simpler;

handful EWC/2TBS molasses and bubble it for a day or 2 {i actually do the airlift thing too}
sometimes i will put in a TBS of kelp meal
all this to 3 or 4 gallons water

seeing your follow up post {op} i dont think pH is an issue or that you may even have an issue/i dont sweat a red stem here and there

 

[VerdantGreen]

red stems/petioles i have always taken as a possible sign that the plant is hungry - this doesnt necessarily mean you have a lockout. you may just need to feed the plants a little more.

as for the dolomite, i use it to counter-act the acidity of peat when i first mix soil. powdered, at 5g per litre of mix (my mix has 30% straight peat).
other people often now prefer a 3 way mix of oyster/gypsum/dolomite or similar which im sure also works - but tbh i have never encountered any problems from using straight dolomite in the way described above.

the other variable is your water source. tap/well water can sometimes be alkaline and have a high pH and this can put your soil out of pH balance depending on how alkaline it is. i used citric acid to correct the pH of my tapwater... but it is better to use rainwater or lower alkalinity water to avoid a buildup of lime in your soil which will make it harder to recycle.

the potential problem with using a 'ready made' mix (which i presume happy frog is) is that you dont really know how much lime has already been added

VG

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

Wow. You just got some damn good answers man.

VG- Out of curiosity and because your yields are insane...what is the pH of your water and the ppm's?

 

[VerdantGreen]

hi RD the pH of my tapwater is around 8.5-9 (they add lime to the tapwater in my area to make it better for drinking) i couldnt tell you the PPM asi cant remember but it was definitely high Alkalinity/PPM.
i used to add citric acid to bring the pH down to about 6 and this worked well to keep my plants happy, but the build up of lime in the mix over a grow meant that recycling the soil was problematic.
i now use rainwater and can recycle my soil, but i still use a little citric acid because i believe it helps keep P in useable form. also with domlomite in my soil mix i know that slightly acidic water will be buffered back up to 7 and that the pH range between 6 and 7 will keep my plants happy.

i know all that doesnt quite jive with the 'compost cures everything' mantra of many growers, but i live and work on the junction of 2 very different soil chemistry/pH areas and these areas have completely different vegetation and native plants (which are most definitely NOT interchangeable by simply adding compost).
this, along with my experiences with tapwater and rainwater for my grows has taught me quite a lot, and i will always regard a pH meter to be a very useful piece of equipment, even if you often dont have to worry about pH in organic growing.

VG

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

I hear ya man. All someone has to do is take a look at your work. What you're doing surely works for you.
I don't think my H20 quality is as bad as yours but its close. I just flipped the switch on some girls that will be on their second recycled run.

What kinds of things did you notice recycling that made you realize there was too much lime in your water?
Soil get real tight on ya?? Defs?

 

[VerdantGreen]

hi RD, i think if you are recycling going ahead and using hard water for watering then leaving out the Dolomite is probably a good idea

with my soil i used to recycle it as potting soil for other plants - an i first started to notice after plants would turn yellow and chlorotic after re-potting into it.
when i re-amended and used it for weed then i would get strange symptoms that looked like either deficiency or burning. then i read a paper about how quickly alkali water would change the pH of soil in a pot and it clicked. I havent had the same problems since using rainwater.
ive never had the soil tighten up really though, its always felt good in structure...

its really the ppm/alkalinity which is more important than the pH, and i guess i use quite small volumes of soil and expect to get large amounts of bud - up to an ounce per gallon of soil used - so any problems are possibly amplified by that


VG

 

[YosemiteSam]

What would be really interesting would be to know the alkalinity of water where people don't worry about pH at all. I would almost bet it is lowish.

CO is around 25 ppm alkalinity most from Ca carbonates, bicarbonates.

When you get to some point my guess is that measures besides microbes are gonna be required. Possibly as simple as get some sulfate in there and use a little runoff all of the way up to elemental sulfur...depending on your alkalinity.

Now I am gonna go hide for a while

 

[trichrider]

compost.


and lighten up on the AACT. that's like a serious overdose.

 

[moses wellfleet]

hi RD, i think if you are recycling going ahead and using hard water for watering then leaving out the Dolomite is probably a good idea

with my soil i used to recycle it as potting soil for other plants - an i first started to notice after plants would turn yellow and chlorotic after re-potting into it.
when i re-amended and used it for weed then i would get strange symptoms that looked like either deficiency or burning. then i read a paper about how quickly alkali water would change the pH of soil in a pot and it clicked. I havent had the same problems since using rainwater.
ive never had the soil tighten up really though, its always felt good in structure...

its really the ppm/alkalinity which is more important than the pH, and i guess i use quite small volumes of soil and expect to get large amounts of bud - up to an ounce per gallon of soil used - so any problems are possibly amplified by that


VG

VG the exact same thing happened to me. My first attempt at ROLS ended with symptoms identical to your description above, I pulled the plant two weeks after the flip cos it looked so bad.

I use both dolomitic lime and calcitic lime in my mix. Sometimes I water with condensate from my air con, and sometimes with tap water that I know has a high calcium carbonate level, ph is over 8.

Should I leave out the lime completely from my mix and water with rainwater?

 

[VerdantGreen]

hey moses its hard to say for sure, but i would probably use just dolomite lime, or the 3 way lime mix that Cootz uses - and then use rainwater.

i basically use dolomite as a one time treatment to counter the acidity of straight peat - but also keep in mind that if you use a 'ready made' compost in your mix like FFOF that it may well have been limed already.

VG

 

[VerdantGreen]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=231106