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Plain Sight Experiment

DemonPigeon

Member
Veteran
I'm being forced outdoors this year, so I'm doing a guerilla grow, additionally to this I'm planning an experiment.

(And I think it is a security relevent topic rather than a growing science one)

Webbed leaves - How good a concealment are they?

Webbing is a recessive genetic trait that should make webbed plants harder to detect than you standard pinate ganja leaf strains.

So I'm planting 4 autoflowering seeds with webbed leaf traits on well irrigated patches a long way from my proper grow. In fact I won't be able to check up on them until very nearly harvest time so I can't promise updates, I just want people to have a thread where they can speculate on the odds of getting a harvest the in the same way that I'm going to be specualting in the intervening months between launch and data collection.

I've picked overgrown areas maybe less than 20 ft. from the nearest "path" (though mostly they aren't really proper paths more like areas of overturned mud).

I'm hoping to plant them amongst nettles and other similar deterents so that they will not only blend in but have a level of protection.

I'm sure most of you agree that what most people know about cannabis is the leaf shape rather than smell or flowers, so mainly the risk is from rippers or police.

I'm not using fem seeds so I could get all males but luckily there aren't any other outdoor grows around as far as I've ever noticed (I wanted to pick an area where there'd be the least possible disturbance to others) but that's something I'd like to test during this grow.

The main risks to plants are - other growers who may target potential pollinators, rippers who may steal females and the police.

Possible Outcomes and interpretations:

1) No Plants Found on Return - Webbed leaves probably do not conceal the nature of cannabis effectively enough for this area. Animals may have depleted the numbers.

2) Some plants found on return -

2a) remaining plants males - No growers or police have found and removed the males for legal or pollen reasons. This is probably a safe place to grow webbs but the females may have been more easily found by police or targetted by grow thieves leaving only males behind. Animals may have depleted the numbers.

2b) Plants of both gender found on return - No growers or police have found and removed the remaining plants for legal or pollen reasons. Rippers have not taken all the females. Probably safe to grow webbs. Animals may have depleted the numbers.

2c) All Plants Females - No police have found and removed the plants for legal reasons. Rippers have not taken all the females. Probably safe to grow webbs. Animals may have depleted the numbers.

3) All Plants found on Return -

3a) All Plants Males - No growers or police have found and removed the males for legal or pollen reasons. This is probably a safe place to grow webbs.

3b) Plants of both gender found on return - No growers or police have found and removed the plants for legal or pollen reasons. No rippers have taken the females. Definately safe to grow webbs.

3c) All Plants Females - No police have found and removed the plants for legal reasons. No rippers have taken the females. Definately safe to Grow webbs.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Female dependent Outcomes:

A) Plants found all (regardless of survival rate) female -

A1) Unpollinated - There are no fiber, ditchweed or cultivated males within a signifficant distance.

A2) Pollinated - There are fiber, ditchweed or cultivated males within a signifficant distance.

B) Plants found (regardless of survival rate) mixed genders -

B1) Unpollinated - Males were unable to pollinate females, this suggests that the female(s) must be in some way sheltered or the males unable to produce viable pollen. Leaves the question of whether there are local males open.

B2) Pollinated - There may be staminate (fiber, ditchweed or cultivated males) other than mine locally, if any germinated seeds show non-webbed leaf formation these are very likely f1 crosses with local non-webbed males (as webbing is recessive).
 

Chronage

Scholastic Warrior
Interesting idea, hearing your final results will be pretty cool. I too have wondered about similar ideas. My friends mother back in the day said she used to grow right out back and trim her leaves a certain way. She said that planted near tomatoes and pruning and modifying how the leaves looked she was always fine. I suppose the only other question is how out there is your spot? (not trying to get details really) But, is there any chance that no one at all rolls through that area you've selected, so that your experiment may mean nothing? Or have you actually seen any signs that perhaps people may atleast venture through on nearby trails or you've seen areas clearly walked through at all from time to time? Neat idea, cheers.
 

DemonPigeon

Member
Veteran
Interesting idea, hearing your final results will be pretty cool. I too have wondered about similar ideas. My friends mother back in the day said she used to grow right out back and trim her leaves a certain way. She said that planted near tomatoes and pruning and modifying how the leaves looked she was always fine. I suppose the only other question is how out there is your spot? (not trying to get details really) But, is there any chance that no one at all rolls through that area you've selected, so that your experiment may mean nothing? Or have you actually seen any signs that perhaps people may atleast venture through on nearby trails or you've seen areas clearly walked through at all from time to time? Neat idea, cheers.

Well one of the wetter areas looks very churned up by walking but I think that it's the result of a small number of people causing a lot of mess due to the high water table, it varies from weeds and drainage ditches up to fishing spots and dog walking areas.

None of the areas are particularly remote, it's not at all a rural place that I've picked to use. Just patches of basically waste ground. It wouldn't work for a guerilla grow of any other kind because people will be (sporadically) going through it, really it's all about seeing whether people can smell what's in front of them, also I'd be really interested to see what f1 seeds I might get from this :p Of course getting it back home will be the real challenge if the plants make it :p

I've started with a low number but depending on my results I'd like to repeat it bigger :p
 

DreamsofTesla

Member
Veteran
This is a very clever idea, and quite a lot of work, so kudos to you.

It would make an interesting experiment for me, too -- there's an area down the road from my house where I could try planting two or three plants and see if anyone comes across them. Entirely possible that they wouldn't. My main concern is to not have the cops then start sniffing around the whole area and find my grow. I could find a further away spot, but I always worry about accidentally implicating another grower the same way.
 

DemonPigeon

Member
Veteran
Thanks Dreams :)

Yeah I picked an area of public land miles from me or any other likely outdoor grow areas.

I'd recommend webbs to anyone who is particularly risk-averse (paranoid) like me and interested in guerilla growing, since I'm new to outdoor grows I wanted to see how easily deteced webbed plants are.

Anyone else who'd like to replicate or run altered versions of this themselves is welcome to put their own plans and results on here :) feel free to make use of my "outcome table" ;-)
 

DreamsofTesla

Member
Veteran
Well, I don't have direct access to webs -- didn't actually know about them until this thread.

It does seem to me, though, that snipping the leaves into different shapes could be a game changer. Even without the leaf decorating, though, it would be interesting for me to see if a plant or two in the area I'm thinking of would be discovered at all. I suspect it might not.
 

DreamsofTesla

Member
Veteran
Well, I just mean in terms of for example, plucking a few blades out of fan leaves here and there to visually break up the fan, and making random snips on them to make them look more like the webbed ones. I probably will try it on my sativas this summer, i'll get pics.
 

DemonPigeon

Member
Veteran
Pics'll be good :) I've heard some plants naturally only produce smaller leaflet arrays e.g. they produced fans with 3 leaflets or just one leaflet.
A friend had one with mostly 4 leaflet leaves, it wasn't very stealthy though :p
 

DemonPigeon

Member
Veteran
Just thought I'd say I planted out 4 of Kaly Seeds' Pintura Ruderalis, I got very annoyed with my indoor grow of these because they didn't do at all well, very poor growth and rather unhealthy I'm afraid but a friend has had a (atlhough slow growing) very pretty girl from one of their other lines so I'm giving them another chance ;-)
I've decided they're going to be joined by three of the ducksfoot#2 seeds kindly donated to me by Wallyduck a while ago now :p I wanted to have them going ages ago but the snow and my changes of circumstance were not at all helpful :p I'm hoping that between the Ducks and the Pintura I'll get some bud or at least a load of webbed seeds for the future :) and that no one will recognise them of course :p
 

DemonPigeon

Member
Veteran
Definitely like to see more on this!! Think you'll be able to snap a couple quick pics once you've got it going?

Yeah I've actually decided to do two different sites like this so I have one I can visit easily which should help me keep track of the kind of developement that should be going on at the other further away one :)

Obviously that site is a week ahead now so when these are almost ready for harvest I should head over there for the other harvest. ;-)

Once again I'm using Ducksfoot #2 and Pintura Ruderalis.
Anyone interested in the Ducksfoot should head over to Wizards of Oz :)
https://www.icmag.com/ic/forumdisplay.php?f=20

The Pintura Ruderalis I'm still undecided on, but the germ rates have been 100% so they may totally suprise me, certainly they have a speed advantage but they are only meant to be about 5% THC and they'll be much smaller plants... either way that'll be something we'll learn from the grow (I hope)

I've had a lot of problems with losing or just not being able to get my camera to work properly this last grow but yes, I'll post weekly (or at least "key stage") updates of probably fairly blurry photos so you can see how it's going :-D
 

DemonPigeon

Member
Veteran
Still currently waiting for my ducksfoot to pop their seed cases, :-0 nervous moment :-S going to try etching the sides to help things along :)

The Pintura are doing well so far seed cases open and roots starting to burrow :) I may have to retract my negative statements about them :p last time the seedlings had problems with their stems before they even put out proper leaves.
 

DreamsofTesla

Member
Veteran
Hey, this is kind of what I had in mind about plucking/trimming leaves to disguise the fan leaf shape. This is a clone, I've defoliated it somewhat to keep it under control. But it's growing all these single leaves, and honestly it doesn't even look like a weed plant ;)

picture.php
picture.php
 

DemonPigeon

Member
Veteran
It look really good man :) Very stealthy :)

I know that some clones do things like that if the genes to decrease leaflet array size (reduce leaflet number) have been triggered, either by time (i.e. since the original seed germinated) or by sexual differentiation (especially if cloned from a plant that has recently been put on 12:12)

But that's a really good example of it :) I bet most stoners wouldn't notice it :p
 

Incognegro

Member
my reveg moms usually look like that after a couple weeks back under the veg lights...

I was shopping today, and saw a VERY common plant that alays see in my neck of the woods that looks very similar to one of my own strains... but my strain is VERY stinky.... but the leaf variations are very similar...i'd like to do an "in plain sight" thing too..but not sure how i would go about it lol
 

Canniwhatsis

High country cat herder
Veteran
I too have been thinking of doing some IPS grows this season,.... tho, unlike yourself I'm thinking of using clones planted in a sea of giant ragweed.

picture.php


picture.php



Also, I've been considering picking up actual DuckFoot, or Nettle weed seeds for an even more IPS grow as a stand alone plant in the wild, just to see if it would get detected.....
 

joe guy

Member
I've been using mad amounts of gigs on the net surfing google maps
To find ips spots I hike daily thru trails with my wife and kid and have been lookin to
Drop beans off path lol " oh shit the dog got away" never mind the pocket full
Of nutes.. I think I have the mix down of mills one part base and aproaite supplement
Even tho it seemed very fertile land...
 

DreamsofTesla

Member
Veteran
I've been using mad amounts of gigs on the net surfing google maps
To find ips spots I hike daily thru trails with my wife and kid and have been lookin to
Drop beans off path lol " oh shit the dog got away" never mind the pocket full
Of nutes.. I think I have the mix down of mills one part base and aproaite supplement
Even tho it seemed very fertile land...

I've been thinking about putting rooted clones along my dog walk trail, just right there next to the path. So much vegetation, a lot of things will blend. trying to figure out how to dig the hole right quick.
 

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