BHO textures and yields

[JimmyRow]

I have spent countless hours checking out everyone's techniques for achieving different styles of BHO. While I appreciate everyone sharing their info and experiments. There is so much back and forth.

I relocated CO a while a go, and its time to get serious about concentrates. Back down South, my wife had a strong edibles following, so most of my trim/popcorn went to canna-butter, the rest either dry sift, or BHO experiments in SS turkey basters(which always went ok, but never resulted in any thing i'd show off).

Here the black market for edibles is ok, but I've got plenty of trim to take care of that, plus we are starting to cook more with QWET, or BHO for dosing regulation.

All of my grower buddies make wax, so I'm kinda trying to keep up with the Jones, but it seems ICMAG leans more towards shatter/amber. So I decided to do a bunch of runs and see what I could pull off and what I like best, as far as smoke, taste, buzz and dabablilty.

I've gotten a new glass extraction tube, I can cram 60g ground, and 45 g hand packed sugar trim/popcorn. I have a large amount of this product to experiment with, most of the strains has been mixed, bummer. and want to feel confident that I can achieve my desired result before next harvest. As of now I am purging in a dehydrator, with plans on acquiring a vacuum pump within a couple of weeks.

I wanted to start this thread to keep me motivated to document my results and share them, plus see if I can pick up some tips along the way. Thanks for stopping in.

I ran some ECSD x Chem Jones last night, I packed the little flowers and sugar leaves pretty tight, with a coffee filter in first to prevent blow back. and two coffee filter at the open end. then ran 3 250 ml cans of tane. I yielded right at 8.5%, on a previous run of ground mixed strain trim I pulled almost 14%. from water bath, to heating pad for two hours, to the food dehydrator @ 125f for 18 hours. I folded twice throughout the process to flatten and pop bubbles, which may have been bad. I scrapped it from the pyrex dish before putting on silicon mats in the dehydrator, and it seems the first 1/2 from the middle of the dish that came up easily had less air/solvent left and resulted in a much more shatter like product while the over worked second 1/2 where i collected the errl from the edges and corners yielded budder/wax.
I've got a few pics of the finished product, but didn't snap many during the process. will next time. the budder is smooth and taste great, and easy to work with, haven't gotten to the shatter yet.

^^shatter-sort of

budder-this is very similar to something a buddy brought over made by colorado concentrates.

 

[hammalamma]

All of your grower buddies makes wax cuz they don't have a clue what they are doing. Get a vacuum setup and keep it clear! Good shatter can fetch up to $100, wax maybe $20.

Go to youtube if you want to make wax. If you are set on making wax just spray and let it sit there and do nothing at all to it, it will wax.

 

[JimmyRow]

I'm not set on making wax by any means, but want to know how. clear errl is much more appealing to me.
Vacuum set up will be in route asap.
Thanks for your input

 

[SpaceshipNelson]

If it aint Shatter!! (It don't Matter)

If it aint Shatter!! (It don't Matter)

I agree with Hamma! Most(salesman) push their inferior waxes/budders because they don't know what they're dealing with.

Shatter = Stability + purity

Clear, clean shatter has typically been Winterized (removing most residual lipids/lignin/paraffin (making room for tighter crystalline structures ) and then usually either (a)thin film purged or (b) vacuum purged under very low, stable heat.

A true test of shatter is it's patience, no one's shatter usually lasts long enough because everyone dabs it all away, BUT at the same time, the reason they'll try and sell you their crappy wax/budder is because it's decomposing as you stand there scrutinizing it.

Now, smelling the parchment (of budder or wax) might make you think that there is more smell, flavor or terpines BUT THAT DOES NOT OUT WEIGHT all of the material you DON'T WANT in there.
We're making medicine here people, the old school apothecary way. And we can all identify fairly easily that simply shoot'n tane through a baster, is akin to making coffee, without a coffee filter.
::::Yuck!!::

 

[Waxmasta Flex]

Good shatter can fetch up to $100, wax maybe $20.

Go to youtube if you want to make wax. If you are set on making wax just spray and let it sit there and do nothing at all to it, it will wax.

wow...DONT listen to this dude first off...lol
theres plenty of shops that push fire WINTERIZED THEN O2 WHIPPED wax that fetches 90-100 gr as fast as its made...

so no, wax doesnt "Fetch" 20 a gram...thats funny tho..
maybe trim wax in bulk?

2nd DONT go watch some crappy youtube video...ask someone that knows what the fuck theyre doing n get a HANDS ON INTRO...

hasnt anyone ever just 02 whipped their winterized shit????? i mean NOT that inconceivable...w a vac n rite temps u can easily make honeycomb out of winterized oil..its crazy light too when it comes out...w all the bs filtered, n air whipped in the slabs can be hugeeeeeee n not weigh shit...ill post a few pics of swims last winterized then whipped batch...

the slab has been run through lab nerd 102...
99% iso no 91% shit

then reheated and 02 whipped...
so yea i guess you can say its "deteriorating" but i like it better that way most the time...
what you CANT say is all honeycomb is poisonous or has residual butane or is purged shittily or sucks etc etc etc, cuz heres proof you most certainly can get winterized sap into a "wax or comb" if u want...

 

[SpaceshipNelson]

Lets not get testy here. . .

The vast majority of shops and back alley trash vendors are looking to maximize profits and minimize shelf retention period. Therefore, the majority of waxes and budders you're going to find are just that, run-of-the-mill production oriented concentrates.

As for trying to invalidate Hamma, He has considerable knowledge and experience in just exactly wtf we're talking about!

The FEW shops that even know what they're dealing with DO have a more refined selection, even winterized waxes and "budders". But you have to weigh a few key things in on this subject;

(1) impurities and residuals are most easily hid in something opaque/crumbly/waxy (I mean come on, part of the learning curve for us all was getting RID of the waxes in our concentrates, not emulating them)

(2) really, what are the actual pro's/benefits of a wax and/or budder consistency over shatter? if you think about it,the only upside is a fluffed up product that may appear to be larger and therefore a greater value to your patient? Don't tell me its easier to handle, cause good cured shatter will break up just as easy and really actually keeps more appropriately. Not to mention dosing, if you do your damnedest to whip air into your oil, how can you be sure any given dab is of consistent quantity?

it's important to differentiate between all the possible methods/outcomes of making a concentrate,
and something based on your likes/opinion.

 

[JimmyRow]

Back and forth, which I appreciate and value, kind of the reason I started this thread. As spaceship said I'm looking to achieve a variety of the textures on the market, and form my own opinion, with input from my patients of course. And I don't want to be the asshole caregiver that says "all of my internet friends make shatter so I do too" but if I'm offering wax, I want it to be as good as the next guys, and the same w/ shatter.

Thanks to all of you for your opinion, and info you've provided. I agree its easier to hide shit in wax/budder, but it could just as easily be properly purged. But either way i want to keep the concentrates up to par with our flowers. Nice!

I'm making progress. I ended up with some acceptable wax/budder out of today's run. And winterized this batch of shit wax I made the other day. I whipped the shit out of it, debris included. Today I washed it with some moonshine(really strong corn liquor) filtered it and ended up with some nice errl.

^^from this
To this

 

[midwestHIGHS]

isopropanol is not as polar as ethanol, it doesn't winterize as well and won't remove all of plant waxes, lipids and fats. My absolutes winterized with ethanol purged in as thin of film as possible with deep vacuum and constant heat never wax up.

 

[JimmyRow]

I used the rest of my "hot" liquor, on this batch. Gonna pick up some 190 proof for later runs. Can't wait for vacuum setup... This was thin film purged on a seedling mat at 120 for 6-8 hours

 

[JimmyRow]

Alright, this amber smokes fantastically well. If I died it purple I think It'd pass for a grape jolly rancher until you eat it. Captured tons of terps, super smooth, zero cough, great lung feel. And I'm STONED! I didn't check weights prior for winterizing, but plan on making another run in up coming days. And will document results.

I ground the trim for the featured run, initial yield % was almost 2x hand packed. I think I will actually run two tubes, one ground, one hand packed, and check weight after running the tane and again after ethanol wash and purge. I'm curious if grinding product adds plant waxes ect that the ethanol will remove, and end up with the same % of absolute at the end of the day.

 

[Bobby Stainless]

Lets not get testy here. . .

The vast majority of shops and back alley trash vendors are looking to maximize profits and minimize shelf retention period. Therefore, the majority of waxes and budders you're going to find are just that, run-of-the-mill production oriented concentrates.

^This

Even if shatter is going for 100 and wax goes for 20, are the regular consumers buying the shatter? (I sure as shit wouldn't spend 100 bucks for a gram of hash)

Does the yield merit the processing? If you can get more than 5 grms of wax to every 1 of shatter, then it makes more sense to wax.

No doubt shatter is the better product. However, the prevalence of wax/budder is most likely due to the fiscal viability, and not knowledge of the process.

 

[Gray Wolf]

On the primary question, I've made wax by accident, by design, and by request, but prefer an absolute shatter that has been vacuum purged.

Both of ours smell and taste like the material that it was extracted from, so the only advantage that I can see to the wax, might be handling. As I don't have any trouble handling runny oil, shatter, or wax, that is of little benefit to me.

I haven't tried to wax up an absolute, but waxes that are still in raw oleoresin form make me cough big time, from my lungs trying to expell the plant waxes they are being coated with.

As I see no real advantages to me, and waxing up the oil does increase its exposed surface area to oxygen and therefore it degrades much faster, I haven't experimented with waxing up absolutes.

Waxing also takes much longer under heat and vacuum than a thin film absolute shatter, and if you smell your pump oil afterwards, you will note that it reeks of the plant terpenes that it was removing during that pumping time. I had rather leave those terpenes in the oil.

PS: I don't shop at dispensaries, but I have noticed that much of the wax that students bring to class for show and tell, still contains butane, including that which they purchased at dispensaries. Much, doesn't mean 100% and some have showed up with some killer wax products, so I can see where the attraction might be.

 

[JimmyRow]

GW-thanks for your input.
After sitting on a chunk of this shatter for a while, its winning, for the head stash at least. I've noticed serious cough from waxes that I've made, and from stuff my buddies made. Zero from the amber.
Maybe its me, but its harder to get the shatter to stay on the dabber. but worth the trouble!!

Maybe the altitude is making folks stupid, but in my circle everyone refers to doing dabs as smoking wax. Never has anyone pulled out a chunk of shatter, I appreciate and understand the stability and purity points, but I can only smoke so much oil. And if my patients are dead set on smoking wax, they should be able to get a quality product from me, if they won't appreciate or pay for the extra product and labor required to achieve an absolute amber, then I can't afford to have it sitting around.

What I'm trying to do here is to find methods that produce different textures consistently, and have a ballpark yield in mind, so I know what I'm gonna put in and about what i'm gonna get out.

 

[hammalamma]

^This

Even if shatter is going for 100 and wax goes for 20, are the regular consumers buying the shatter? (I sure as shit wouldn't spend 100 bucks for a gram of hash)

Does the yield merit the processing? If you can get more than 5 grms of wax to every 1 of shatter, then it makes more sense to wax.

No doubt shatter is the better product. However, the prevalence of wax/budder is most likely due to the fiscal viability, and not knowledge of the process.

Wtf! Shatter or wax you get the the same yield, one is made with care the other is made to make money.

 

[Bobby Stainless]

That's why I put a question mark at the end of the sentence.

Sorry that confused you.

 

[midwestHIGHS]

The stuff going for 100g is usually made from top shelf indoor flowers not outdoor or trim.
If you do the math on how much it cost to buy the top shelf indoor flowers, along with solvent, labor, and yield, 100 a g isn't that crazy. I recently heard a extract company say they make more selling 30 gram trim oil than they do on there 100 g top shelf nug oil.

 

[JimmyRow]

So I've got a question about running top shelf nugs, will the oil quality be significantly higher, or only better yields. Obviously there has to be something to pay for. More terpene retention? What kind of yields would be anticipated? 20-25%? At that rate. I can see 100 a g in a retail setting after mark up of 40-50%.
1oz value-175-200, 10-15 in butane, 10 in ethanol, 30-40 labor, 5-10 misc.
+/-250 to produce 6-7g...look at a cost of 35-40/g to produce. Walking into the retail outlet.
Does that sound right?-i understand cost would go down in a commercial operation working with volume and proper equipment.

 

[hammalamma]

So I've got a question about running top shelf nugs, will the oil quality be significantly higher, or only better yields. Obviously there has to be something to pay for. More terpene retention? What kind of yields would be anticipated? 20-25%? At that rate. I can see 100 a g in a retail setting after mark up of 40-50%.
1oz value-175-200, 10-15 in butane, 10 in ethanol, 30-40 labor, 5-10 misc.
+/-250 to produce 6-7g...look at a cost of 35-40/g to produce. Walking into the retail outlet.
Does that sound right?-i understand cost would go down in a commercial operation working with volume and proper equipment.

Both, way more and better terps. Trim oil tastes like trim to me, unless really good sugar trim was used. 20% to 25% is usual return on nugs, of course there are exceptions.

 

[JColtrane]

I agree hammalamma on that one ... it's always about stayin in front of the curve, and taste is key!

 

[Waxmasta Flex]

The stuff going for 100g is usually made from top shelf indoor flowers not outdoor or trim.
If you do the math on how much it cost to buy the top shelf indoor flowers, along with solvent, labor, and yield, 100 a g isn't that crazy. I recently heard a extract company say they make more selling 30 gram trim oil than they do on there 100 g top shelf nug oil.

yup...dep on what nug cost is....
def true re the cheaper stuff being mroe profitable...
budget oil pipeline ftw