Everybody a breeder ?

[Tom Hill]

Shoulda just put this here. What do you guys think of this?



Apparently Australia is one, upon further reading. What do you think the chances of getting some "hemp" seeds irradiated?

Australia may be a problem, but I see no problem in Austria. I would certainly be interested in hearing about it if you decided to investigate it further.

 

[Tom Hill]

Intuition has me suspecting that it may prove to be less fruitful than delving into other exploratory techs, but I damn sure could be wrong about that.

 

[Tonygreen]

I am investigating it further. I was amazed at how many examples of the food we eat were obtained from seed irradiation. i don't know anything about Austria but I'll start looking there, heh.

I was also thinking about your earlier example of the tray in the fridge and what other traits would be easy to test for in similar fashion..
Then I was like well I could stress the hell out of 50 plants to find the girls that dont start showing male flower parts.
Then I was thinking well thats a decent way to get a result, but maybe it would be good to select and test for certain traits in a step by step method for working or creating my own special line.

Like if I ran a bunch of seed from the f1s I made then stressed the hell out of them and only used individuals who absolutely wont produce male flower parts to show.

Then self all of my perceived "pure" females to test the progeny to find the most homozygous plant. And hell since I have their babies going to test I may as well do the stress test on those as well and determine which mother is really the most "pure" female.

Now that I found a good stable mom I can move on knowing that I am on to something and make further selections from the progeny to advance on working on other traits?

 

[Tonygreen]

Idk Tom when I ran into it and started reading I was pretty amazed at how many plants we eat everyday came from the method. The trick I guess would be is there a facility that will do it for cannabis seeds. I am going to try to find out. lol.

I imagine the places that do it probably are not taking much of a close look at the seeds they do, I could be wrong, anyhow I figured a country where you can grow hemp would be the best place to start looking.

The more I read the more I am seeing how much influence the technique has had on what most of us eat every day.

 

[Tonygreen]

Maybe someone knows a friendly dentist?

 

[Tom Hill]

I personally feel that stress testing is somewhat a waste of time in the process, I feel the same about most quantitative traits. There is just damn near zero correlation between phenotype and genotype when it comes to biometrical genetics -that the mom does this or that guarantees us pretty much squat regarding these types of traits. Imo it is better to just run through cycles utilizing methods such as the pedigree method outlined earlier (with many families), then measure the values of those families after a modicum of homozygosity has been established. -T

 

[Tom Hill]

admittedly, I am somewhat ignorant of the process, that is, the effects of radiation treatment. Does it affect inheritance in regards to homozygosity/heterozygosity or do we still have a boatload of breeding to do after we have located exceptional mutations?

 

[Tom Hill]

I've used up all my favors with the dentist making him use inferior drugs on you all while I do all of his nitrous stash

 

[xmobotx]

ok; i guess i learn a few new words and want to apply it to my experience

but i could be forcing my experience in to the mold of my new vocab

lol~ thanks Tom!

 

[Weird]

Thanks for the clearer perception on hack call me yachting you want brother at least your not riffing on just anyone with a handful of plants

Im a big boy, I can take it

 

[xmobotx]

huh?

*edit; i mean, "Oh, OK"

 

[foomar]

All these will do the job but not many DIY options.

Commonly used physical mutagens (radiations), their properties and mode of action.


Type of Radiation Main properties

X – rays
S.I., penetrating and non-particulate

Gamma rays
S.I., very penetrating and Non-particulate

Alpha Particles
D.I., particulate, less penetrating and positively charged.

Beta Rays Particles
S.I., particulate, more penetrating than alpha particles and negatively charged.

Fast and Thermal Neutrons
D.I., particulate, neutral particles, highly penetrating.


Note: particulate refers to particle emitting property DI = Densely ionizing, SI = Sparsely ionizing.

Have some old industrial Xray crack testing kit that still works , toyed with the idea of irradiating at fertilisation , rather than treat seed.

 

[Adze]

My impression was that mutation caused by radiation would be entirely random, therefore mostly deleterious and would require large numbers to produce anything desirable. If that is not the case, I would be interested in hearing the explanation.
*Radiation can increase the number of real mutations, well beyond the natural rate.

 

[Tonygreen]

Kinda similar to conventional breeding eh Adze?

 

[Tom Hill]

huh?

*edit; i mean, "Oh, OK"

yeah the translation goes something like "what? you mean the success I and others are having with the chems et al has everything to do with the science/maths of inheritance and jack squat to with my art? Fuck you tom for pointing that out" lol, but it's true none the less.

 

[YosemiteSam]

That is true in industry also. Show me an industry that still claims there is an art involved (say beer making) and I will show you an industry with shitty quality control

 

[TheArchitect]

That is true in industry also. Show me an industry that still claims there is an art involved (say beer making) and I will show you an industry with shitty quality control

While the science of brewing is known, in terms of things like ideal water quality, fermentation and mash temperatures, the blending and roasting of grains, how much hops, and other subjective additives is a *gasp* art.

Please quantify something as subjective as taste.

The same goes for liquor and wines too.


You could brew, breed, or distill by the book and your subjective selections could still suck.

The art of selection isn't scientifically quantifiable, it's subjective.

And while you could always use market surveys(scientific approach) to get an idea of what people want now to know what selections to make, the true innovators always bring to the market something people didn't even know they want...


Its obvious that should you have the gift of foresight and make good selections, it would also be in your best intrest to learn the science of your field.

It's a lot easier to read a book than learn by experience, or live life blind.

Perfect example. Steve jobs. truly technically gifted, but an artist nonetheless.

Peace and love brothers......



More science!

 

[YosemiteSam]

The beer industry has all kinds of scales it uses, brix, bitterness, alcohol %. And why can't you quantify taste...traits of people virtually always follow a normal distribution curve...all you got to do is find the mean and sigma and off you go.

Hell you can see the beer thing in my town...one brewery/bar excellent quality control (for that industry), the other one this artsy brewer who is always off chasing wild yeast spores. Guess which one is full every night.

Steve Jobs was a visionary who applied plenty of science imo. Wanna bet they use plenty of statistics in those Chinese factories?

Guess we just see the world differently

 

[Tom Hill]

While the science of brewing is known, in terms of things like ideal water quality, fermentation and mash temperatures, the blending and roasting of grains, how much hops, and other subjective additives is a *gasp* art.

......and after those things are more thoroughly understood by those practicing it it will no longer be referred to as art.

It is only art to those who do not understand the science....

 

[TheArchitect]

My big beef is you guys are ignoring the definition. Take it up with websters dictionary if you don't like it.

Don't let my insistence that by definition I'm right come off as an attack, on either you or the scientific method, I merely like using terms properly, as a scientist you can understand the importance of recognizing the meaning of words.

We do see the world differently, I'm looking at both sides, and giving both their due recognition....