the "real" landrace debate

[med-man]

so was hemp brought to the new world by early sailors and or with the slave trade respectfully? or by "landbgridgers" during the last ice age?

or are south american and mexican kinds really native to their regions?

or by "landbgridgers" during the last ice age?

i have never seen any mayan artifact with cann in it. just mushrooms. same with the aztecs and incas.

is there a theory? or actual proof to back up either story? verifiable evidence would be awesome...

med-man

 

[Evol Seeds]

After the Spanish conquest in 1521, the Spaniards recorded that the Aztecs (Mayans) used marijuana.

 

[im me]

there is a bunch of info on erowid about aztecs and cannabis use. i didn't read the article but perhaps the answer to your question is there bro. but if i remember correctly from other things I've read i believe its always been there.

 

[swayambunath]

Cannabis is an Old World plant; it was introduced to the New World by Europeans, or latterly to the Caribbean by South Asian indentured labourers.
It is unlikely in the extreme that it was introduced by African slaves; I doubt that bringing their herb stash/seed collection would have been foremost on their minds, even if it had been possible, or if they had even smoked cannabis to begin with.

 

[greenmatter]

even if we knew exactly how what got where and when, getting our hands on "pure" genetics would be close to impossible.

anyone who thinks their bagseed means it is a landrace is fuckin' high

 

[Rinse]

Is there any proof as to the origins of cannabis? As far as I know its debatable although most agree on Asia.

 

[420empire]

Hmm new science is saying that the native people in America, is bunch of hunters which orgin is from the EU continent, this is based on new found stonetools i north America. I think these hunters maybe could have brought the seeds with them and maybe when settle they spred them around like the native americans are doing with their favourite herbs.

Just my opinion on this subject,

Peace, and btw. Sorry for my bad language.

 

[swayambunath]

There is no evidence of cannabis in the Americas before European contact.
I am a bit bewildered by the seeming need to establish cannabis' ubiquity in a historical context. It's ubiquitous now, why worry about it?

 

[bill cooper]

If anyone has evidence of the Aztecs using cannabis can they post it please because it should's like total bullshit to me

 

[burningfire]

I've never read or heard anyone talk about cannabis use in south america prior to European arrival. Actually, the only person who has claimed otherwise is Franco from GHS but I wouldn't consider him an authority on the subject, I think he's mistaken.

most of the Colombian cannabis has strong Indian/African influences..

 

[med-man]

thats what ive heard. i used to live in mexico, and all my friends and acquintances that puff or dont puff say that cannabis was brought with the sailors.

i have heard columbians have very strong afghani traits as well.

med-man

 

[Easy7]

Cannabis is Native in North America (rudialis), Mexico, Colombia and Brazil. It is possible that perhaps the Natives brought seeds with them, these then evolved into rudialis or the sativa's. I haven't ever read research indicating whether that may be the case, or not.

 

[FoCo(No.Co)]

Cannabis is Native in North America (rudialis), Mexico, Colombia and Brazil.

No it is not.

The evolutionary origin of cannabis is the mountains of Afghanistan. It proliferated all over the world through trade.

The same species does not independently evolve on two different continents, that is just not possible. The oldest examples of cannabis seeds and paraphernalia have been found in the middle east and Asia so authorities generally agree that Cannabis is native to Asia.

Oh the other hand, when you grow an Afghan landrace in Colombia for 400 years it turns into a Colombian landrace through natural and artificial selection.

 

[Mustafunk]

I agree with most opinions, we know that cannabis originated in Asia and from them, got spread all over the world through trade routes, with people's migrations and so on. As it was done when it arrived to Africa, Pacific Islands or even Jamaica.

In 1545 the Spanish brought marijunana to the New World. The English introduced it in Jamestown in 1611 where it became a major commercial crop alongside tobacco and was grown as a source of fiber.

The first marijuana law in America was enacted in Jamestown colony in 1619. It ordered all farmers to grow cannabis. More mandatory hemp cultivation laws were enacted in Massachusetts (1631), Connecticut (1632), and the Chesapeake Colonies. Meanwhile in England, the crown decreed that foreigners who grew cannabis would be rewarded with full British citizenship, while those who refused to grow hemp were often fined.

Not too much time ago, I was reading indeed about how cannabis arrived to Brazil and it was discussend on an african landraces thread.

I don't know about the Colombian/Panaman origins or if it could arrive from other sources as Borneo but according to different sources of brazilian historians (Pedro Correa e P. Rosado), its clear that cannabis arrived to Brazil coast back in the 1500s, with the Portuguese ships of slaves from Angola. In 1560 the Quicongo and Quimbundo african slaves brought seeds hidden in their loincloths and even amulets.

In fact, the brazilian terms for cannabis herb have an african origin (same that happened with Africa or Jamaica and Indian ganja/bhang) and originated in the afro-brazilian Quimbunda cults and dialects that came from the old Portuguese "Reino do Congo", nowadays divided between Angola, Democratic Republic of Congo and Republic of Congo.

This terms are widely in use both in Brazil and Africa, where the herb is still known as diamba, liamba, maconha or even fumo d'Angola (angolese tobacco).

In the time of sugar cane cultivation, slaves were allowed to grow the herb between the aisles of sugarcanes for their personal use. Later the farmers started to smoke until the Brazilian Inspectorate for Narcotics, Drugs and Mystification started to ban it to marginalize the poor populations that smoked the diamba. Funny thin was that "Indian Cigarettes" were still sold freely for medical reasons: “Respiratory problems, snoring, flatulence and squealing inhaling will stop almost at once; abundant expectoration occurs almost immediately, making breathing easier, calming the cough, allowing a reinvigorating sleep that end all the tormenting symptoms”

All the Brazilian names for marijuana (maconha, macumba, diamba, liamba, pungo...) are African words from the various languages and dialects spoken by the original slaves. Most likely, the slaves brought the seeds of the marijuana plants with them on the slave ships, as they brought the seeds of certain other African plants, such as the sesame.

I've seen some weeks ago a very interesting documentary on the great botanician Schultes, who spent years travelling and living in the south american jungles, looking for different kinds of traditional plants from the chamanism and ethnobotany. Lot's of substances he found that were used in America, from New Mexico to Brazil but the use of cannabis by the natives seems to be quite new in the history.

As for Colombia, I've read interesting facts of cultivars being introduced there many years ago, can't remember now more details about it. I'm going back to the lab!

Very interesting thread though... Marijuana, the first 12,000 years: http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/history/first12000/4.htm

 

[swayambunath]

Re; Introduction of cannabis into the Americas;
I just don't see how slaves would be likely to hide cannabis seeds about their persons.
First of all- How? They weren't going on holiday, they were being kidnapped and removed suddenly and with much force and brutality. When did they get a chance to stash seeds about their person?
Second of all- Why? Like most people in the world of the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries, most African peoples would have had absolutely no idea of what the rest of the world was like. How would they have the foresight to know cannabis was not native to the Americas?
And of all things that they could have brought, why cannabis (or sesame seeds, for that matter?)? It doesn't make any sense.
There is the third question of how widespread cannabis use was in West and Central Africa at the time anyway. It seems this tall story of slaves bringing cannabis to the Americas is based on the hare-brained nonsense of Rastafarianism, and an inherantly racist perception of black people and cannabis having some kind of natural affinity.

 

[Easy7]

No it is not.

The evolutionary origin of cannabis is the mountains of Afghanistan. It proliferated all over the world through trade.

The same species does not independently evolve on two different continents, that is just not possible. The oldest examples of cannabis seeds and paraphernalia have been found in the middle east and Asia so authorities generally agree that Cannabis is native to Asia.

Oh the other hand, when you grow an Afghan landrace in Colombia for 400 years it turns into a Colombian landrace through natural and artificial selection.

There is no evidence of trade with Asia and the America's. I am saying it may have came over with the natives over the ice bridge.

 

[burningfire]

There is no evidence of trade with Asia and the America's. I am saying it may have came over with the natives over the ice bridge.

but that was 12000 years ago.. and I think that the oldest documented use of cannabis was 4000 or so years ago It doesn't support that hypothesis

 

[jayjayfrank]

the portuguese brought over seed from s.e asia into brazil.

its not that the slaves took seeds. it was just simple trade along trade routes.

after 100 years or so i would consider that particular area a landrace/region of origin cultivar... but only to where the wind stops and weather changes.

south america already had some of the best plant botantist with their mastery of the jungle. 100's of years of high refinement lets us enjoys some of the best hyrbids today.

 

[mexcurandero420]

Keep on growing

 

[Sat X RB]

sounds like you need to ask someone whose third eye is open, Mister Med. they'd know.