Everybody a breeder ?

[Weird]

All seedlines grow like the moms. We get it. You're right. Everyone's a breeder. The. End.

No, they just don't grow more divergent with bad breeding that selling based on the science of selection gives enough of a sales advantage to set customer expectation

In fact you are going to turn off people who don''t understand what your talking about because all they will hear is you need more than what your buying to get what you want.

that is why i suggested the simple addition of enough seeds to guarantee results. This way their the customers expectation can be met with some certainty. This is how you use numbers and odds to sell the customer.

That is why the use of science to measure breeder worth sucks because it forces you to put a real value on just the technique,. which causes confusion, emotion and a shit storm of everything but setting proper expectation

 

[DemonPigeon]

No he doesn't sell seeds. I was referring to my early posts where I said the problem with the seed industry is that consumers purchase on a false sense of the importance of pedigree.

Fair enough then, I suppose. Evidently I misinterpreted what you meant rather literally.

Yes pedigree is the key to all this isn't it?

Breeder - "Aims to improve or maintain the condition of a breed"? is everyone happy with this definition of a breeder?

Accidental pollinators are not included.

People who hybridise are now working to their own new breed classification and can be retrospectively labeled "dickheads" or "Mavericks" depending on whether or not posterity favours their offering.

People who lie about the providence or identity of their plants (as far as they state more than what they can resonably know about it's origin) are considered as saboteurs ;-)

everyone else who continues a line of the same plants is concidered a breeder of greater or lesser standing depending on the results of their efforts

Anyone happy to buy into that?

 

[Tom Hill]

Sold DemonPigeon.

WIth the proviso that we understand too that it doesn't take a whole lot of moves to be classified as a breeder. To the guys that are looking out over the boards as we speak seeking out parents of likely high breeding value, and simply selfing them once to store seed and offer remnant, well they are breeders in my eyes. -T

 

[Tom Hill]

....and yeah, conversely, the guy who doesn't get it refuses to get it, wants to run on in the mouth about every fucking thing but what it is we are actually doing? Well he's a hack, always been a hack, always be a hack.

 

[DemonPigeon]

I remember my favourite line in Marijuana Botany goes something along the lines of 'It is all our responsibility to be cannabis conservationists' when I first read that I thought it was a creed I could live by. :-D

I do my best to collect traits in danger of being lost ;-) I hope to help keep genes in the public domain in future

Another good quote from MJB is "The best breeders set goals of limited scope and adhere to their ideals."

 

[Tom Hill]

Rob Clarke is a visionary and I can't tell you guys how many times I read that book when I was younger. The way he writes has a timeless quality to it, he's brilliant, and doesn't babble on with things he think he might have to take back later etc. He said lots of things in that book, not everybody heard them, but it's always nice to meet somebody else who did.

 

[gloryoskie]

Selfing produces hermies? I don't think so.
I'm not changing DNA with CS or STS, I'm altering hormone levels.

That's like saying if I cut my dog's tail off his puppies won't have tails.

Tom?

 

[Tom Hill]

I grafted 3 stocks together once and turned 2 males and a girl into one super girl because of shit I read in that book, it spurred many o experiment haha, Rob just rules, end of story.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

Marijuana Botany is available online for free for anyone interested

 

[DemonPigeon]

Mine is peeling at the edges and the margins are a palimpsest of notes, and I'm very new to growing some people say it's not up to date enough but it really can make you cry for the plight of cannabis while teaching you more about botany than just gardening.

I may have said this already but I was awed that someone (Tom Hill for people that haven't seen this) was re-inventing the creeper phenotye

 

[Tom Hill]

couldn't have said it better Gloryoskie, the way around that whether female line or male/female line is through several families, expecting to fail at most.

 

[Tom Hill]

not the good shit Hiding, that web one omits a bunch of info (most of those experiments derived from the) that is contained in the hard copy. Fuck guys, Rob has done so much, buy the book eh? It's a bargain..

 

[Claude Hopper]

I've been forced to be a breeder by necessity. By the late 70's my work had led me away from my connections so I started growing out my old bagseeds under shoplights and outside.

As you can imagine, most of my early results, weren't the best. I was contending with my short upper midwest season and late 70's-early 80's Columbian/Jamaican/Oaxacan genetics aren't good under 40 watt shop lights. But that's what I had to work with and my crops got better every year.

I haven't bought weed since 1985. LOL, but I do buy seeds now! What a treasure trove we have available and Tom Hill's Deep Chunk look like somethings I'd like to try one day..

 

[gloryoskie]

Thanks, Tom! Good thread, lots of insights.

Raises my blood pressure a bit at the lack of insight and respect from some of the posts, lol.

Most importantly, the folks that get it aren't bothered too much by the silliness.

Weird isn't it?

 

[Tom Hill]

Thanks Claude,

But in the spirit of the thread understand this, she's a bitch, she'll not perform like an F1. On the other hand, if you are taken to breeding as a hobby or otherwise, when she does put out (eg resin quantity/quality) she is many fold more likely to pass that on to her offspring than a many other line... Just like a lot of DJ's lines

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

not the good shit Hiding, that web one omits a bunch of info (most of those experiments derived from the) that is contained in the hard copy. Fuck guys, Rob has done so much, buy the book eh? It's a bargain..

Ah yeah I see that, the full online version is 78 pages and the printed book is 198. I'll have to look in to getting the printed version as that is quite the edit.

 

[Weird]

....and yeah, conversely, the guy who doesn't get it refuses to get it, wants to run on in the mouth about every fucking thing but what it is we are actually doing? Well he's a hack, always been a hack, always be a hack.

I can't be a hack because I never claimed to be breeder [however I self plants to preserve unidentified unique strains].

I simply stated that when you get a bud with a seed, the seed isn't so much different from that bud that it can be easily measured by technique and that because of that it is hard to use that to sell your value. There is nothing in anything that I say that argues the importance of technique just the capacity to measure it in a way that will improve customer expectations.

Now ask yourself how many people grow seeds straight from the bud they smoked? Not many. I was pointing out that so that it would encourage people buy and grow seed without the fear of buying 40 seeds to find a average representative. This is setting proper expectation. Don't expect a best of pheno but expect a fair representation of the strain based on the size of the seed pack.

People want what they are promised, you are trying to use the science to show that it proves it., great but in the same breath it wont solve the problem and regardless of the quality of breeding tech discussing it HERE wont teach all the people buying seeds so I don't get your insistence on your point of view.

I understand, I understand growing, I understand marketing, I never disrespected anyone's work.

you understand everything you say and attack everything you don't like as if it were an attack on your person. Your manifesting the opposition.

 

[GreenintheThumb]

http://www.amazon.com/Cannabis-Evol...&qid=1365293492&sr=8-3&keywords=robert+clarke

Robert Clarke has a new book out in August. I'm sure some of you guys are interested.

 

[Tom Hill]

...and he saw fit to change wideleaf to broadleaf (dance of joy )

 

[Tom Hill]

You've come far pilgrim (weird) but if the people making seed do not understand what they are/or are not able to promise, then therein lies the problem as far as I can see. You know, like when you say that your X is as good as his Y without understanding the dynamics of it all.