Everybody a breeder ?

[blue green]

Even if you do choose your favourite keeper from 1000 seeds to breed with, there is no guarantee that it would produce the best offspring from the 1000, is there?

It is just like people, 2 good looking, smart parents can make not so good offspring and vice versa.....

All of the deep genetic babble just makes me go goo goo, gaa gaa.

Someone (i can't remember who), said 'just choose your 2 favourites and cross them, and then find your 2 favourites and cross them etc. etc. That's most fun way.'

Which sounds good to me. lol

 

[Tom Hill]

that is correct Blue Green, no garentee of that, in fact I'd more readily gaurentee the opposite, hehe.

It was some mendelian who must have said that "just cross your two favorites". And if we were breeding for leaf shape or wrinkled peas it would work too. But no it doesn't work that way.

How it works is like this: You step up to the plate expecting to fail, and you will the vast majority of the time. You set aside all that ego and artsie crap and rely on good old maths. So because you go in understanding that you will fail mostly, you take many shots at it, you breed your two favorites, one favorite with 3rd favorite, and so on, then you evaluate what came out best. By the way, I don't believe anybody ever factored in all the bird seed I've thrown away over the years getting pimpslapped by the crosses that failed, now who's willing to pay me for those efforts lol?

 

[Infinitesimal]

By the way, I don't believe anybody ever factored in all the bird seed I've thrown away over the years getting pimpslapped by the crosses that failed, now who's willing to pay me for those efforts lol?

great point...

If I remember back to my econ classes correctly... I believe the term for that is "lost cost" (if I am not mistaken) in other words... investments that will never show a return... and therefor must be recuperated through the revenue of other endeavors...

if 3/4 breeding projects fail, the fourth and successful one must AT LEAST cover the cost that was lost to the other 3 unsuccessful projects... or else one would never see the successful projects come to market otherwise, no matter what, the end result would be a loss for the producer...

and I don't know about you guys but I can't lose money on everything I do, I like to have a roof and some food every now and again...

the point is for everyone screaming how cheap seeds should be, if you like to be able to buy quality seeds from breeders... the price of the final product must include compensation for the failed projects or there would be no one to buy quality bred seeds from in the first place.

 

[Chimera]

You step up to the plate expecting to fail, and you will the vast majority of the time. You set aside all that ego and artsie crap and rely on good old maths. So because you go in understanding that you will fail mostly, you take many shots at it, you breed your two favorites, one favorite with 3rd favorite, and so on, then you evaluate what came out best.

Pure gold!

 

[FOE20]

If someone makes a song up...or a piece of art work..or a new dish..or something from scratch....that to me is more like true breeding..
Making f-gens?...thats gardening....but there is a need for it either way...
Being a seed maker and making it for folks who love it....thats great.....using a name, line or hype..thats just modern business practices....
Letting something sell itself...and have longevity on its own..thats real to me...

I dont think most ppl care about breeding at all...the net itself may connect allot of folk but that still doesn't make it any more or less a thing than underground music scene..as is the Canna scene...Sure its popular but in a odd ball way...which sux but I like the fact its unlike anything else...bla bla..
These sites get ppl all up the latest but in the real I'd like to see how it actually happens..
I know 100s or prob 1000s of folk who love herb..maybe a few read a pot mag...
none of them visit canna sites..
I doubt any of them..maybe 8 know who Dj, Shanti, Tom or Chimera are...and will never care to know..Now maybe in the big city playin the game gets ya that feeling but its still only your community in another 1 of 100s of county's...
Its plants that matter not ppl...when you get to love the plant so much you cant Live without it..then breeding comes into play rather fast..
Far as ppl and so called breeders/seedsman/hobbists or the likes...ya..
The Cannabis Plant domesticated Us a long time ago...heh..
were not breeders..were just makin fancy homes for weed n callin ourselves mother nature...heh...
They breathe cleaner air,...they eat better...their loved more than you...lol...now go clean up their room!...
breeding = a smart way to preserve genetics...best made by Older ppl who know what the genetics are capable of and were like all thru the years...
getting that to pass on and be stable and all that is luck or skill?...matters what u know, and maybe even who you ask...
its a small world with allot of big ideas..but only good work makes the "cut"...
ya Im quite high...
FOE20

 

[silverhazefiend]

So I've been doing my late night reading as usual in all the other usual sites ..and I came across someone's older posts ..he was inquiring to a breeder on what phenos to look for and asking what type of soil he uses ..u kno ur typical newb shit ..I have nothing against that bc we were all newbs once ..this post I was reading was from the middle to end of 2011 ......so I continue to read and see more Newb questions from said person ..ok cool ..I fast forwarded to some of his post from 2012 -2013 and little do u kno he has 15-25 new strains coming out and a breeders forum on another site ...WTF ??? ..smh

I had to re read to make sure I wasn't going crazy ..he also had prices already set and not one strain is released yet ..but here's the kicker ..he also is teaming up with a breeder that is on the come up and semi -respected ..I was stunned ..how is this happening ?? ..I lost all respect for said breeder just for even having anything to do with that hack ..makes me think there both hacks ..

Like states earlier on this thread ..people are bound to get Lucky especially if ur putting out 15-20 hack strains in 18 month time period ..but that's still bullshit to me ..

I also think I'm gonna try to stay off these boards more often ..the more bull shit I read ..the more I realize 95%of people are in this for the money ..I'm not saying u shouldn't profit from ur hard work ..but when ur just mashing strains together and counting ur chickens b4 they hatch ..it becomes transparent ...

I blame some of these boards 2 ! ..they will make any Tom dixk ad Harry a "breeder" to line there pockets ..variety is cool ..and new comers with great gentics are cool ..but it seems like anybody willing to sell beans and the boards can make money from it ..they accept it ..no morals ! ..

This shit is all about money ..where is the love ?

 

[Galactic]

Haha that fool trefarmer and crom. I observed the same as it happened in real time and its real entertaining.

Internet.., I love you.

 

[silverhazefiend]

Haha that fool trefarmer and crom. I observed the same as it happened in real time and its real entertaining.

Internet.., I love you.

I swear I wasn't talking about them ..

I think it's going on so much it's hard to even narrow it down ..But I'm sure if we trace some of these "breeders" history back u can see who's really serious about there love for plants ..

I don't wanna call anybody out ..but I want it to be known I see the bullshit ..everybody is starting to see the bullshit

 

[bushweed]

getting one out of ten is x4 what science is allowed to expect from drug cannabis

what science is allowed to expect??

What science are you referring to Tom? Is there a specific piece of research you can identify to support this statistic? Or are you referring to the science of Tom observing the ratio of exceptional plants in his Original Haze stock and calling that science?

Because one researcher observing data from one cannabis hybrid on one continent, and then applying it to all cannabis strains and hybrids on all continents, does not constitute a statistical significant sample (at least not in legitimate academic circles). And so by invoking the word science (seemingly as way to marginalise anyone with a varying opinion as unscientific, or ignorant) is really just so much bullshit, isn't it Tom?

I'm not saying you're individual observations aren't applicable to all psychoactive cannabis - personally I think it varies between strains - but without the scientific research its just another fucking opinion isn't it?? And one man's opinion just ain't science....well of course you can do the math....

The bottom line is, you need to do more than quote Mendel to be a scientist.

 

[symbiote420]

I really wonder if any of the peeps I see online who are so adamant about what's a breeder's background, in the genetics he/she uses, how many beans he selected from, yadda, yadda, etc., etc. ! wonder if they feel the same about the FDA and similar institutions/corporations like chemical makers, etc. ....seems to me if most peeps focused as passionately on things like that we'd see some real change in this world!!

Having said that I'll say this ...EVERY breeder has to start somewhere ....there's no stork dropping off bountified breeders to mama with 10 strain catalogs ...is there?! I have to ask all of you, who's strains are you growing right now? I bet the breeder doesn't have a degree ...I bet he hasn't even attended school for botany, so why demand so much? Anyone can be a breeder, the word is defined as a person that breeds animals or plants, to be comical, a chick with alot a kids LOL

Tre is my dude! He's no master breeder by any means but he's going about things the right way! If I see a seedbank, maker, whatever spending more on advertising than any thing else, that's my red flag! I've been making my own strains for some time now, I've breed a killer Sour D line and I've let others grow my LA Con x Purple Kush, which I'm now running for the 1st time myself, now I don't consider myself a breeder either, more of a seedsmaker. If someone takes the time to seek knowledge and is passionate about what they're doing ...that's the guy I wanna buy beans from, not some corporation type seedbank that hacks pollen chuckers strains! All this infighting amongst the canna forums and community is a much of madness ...with over hundred different response we humans get from cannabiniods, he likes sativas over indys. she likes indicas over satys, different strokes for different folks!


Nobody's really working with anything new anyway, all reworked genes ....polyhybrids are growing in all our gardens whether you'd like to admit it or not and have been grown since the 1st seedbanks hit the scene, even as far back as the 1920's/30's ....oh yes, there were cannabis seedbanks back then too, earlier even!

In all fairness, let the product speak for itself!

 

[FOE20]

I don't wanna call anybody out ..but I want it to be known I see the bullshit ..everybody is starting to see the bullshit

Amen silverfiend.....I been subtly talkin odd views and points for a while...its funny cause Ive been crucified for it as well...best part is that now the same concepts are becoming essential as ppl leave the OGKush/ChemD craze and get back to the Real...
Its never been about that 1 phenom they were selling us years ago...Was that just luck of the grow or actual selection??...
ask a Breeder and he'll say "selection"...heh...
But i'll tell ya what...
Im no bredder but you can bet ass when I work with something I def study it...and document it to help the entire scene...
you can buy Kroger or Johnsonville...even tho Johnsonville is more $$ I buy them..cause they know Sausages..
and we all know theres only a couple real Johnsonvilles but yea now a days theres a new Kroger every 30min...which is basically fillin the genetic pools with nonsense..
No worries..their claims to fame will also be their downfalls...
The plant never lies...
the Images, Details and Work, Walks the walk....BS Talks...
FOE20

 

[OLDproLg]

^^thats why i say unlock!!!

YES,the product SHOULD sell itself if its dino!!!

Glad you ALL liked my work an insite/stonerthoughts haha!!!

TOM,your smart period i can not talk like you?
im a hands on man..
thanks for the cool comment,and YES i am fuckin NUTZ an a bit to LOAD still,oops?
Love ya man,im here and im glad ya took notice as a friend!!!

CHIMERA,gawd dang i had the same thought on TOM's last comments!
What i call them is a"bounce OFF"when crosses coverup BOTH traits from both types kinda??
Still i hit everything i can up with what ever,because i dont giva damb about stable to much?

FOE,love ya man you talking your language an all......

Well,im sorry for the PICBOMBS but im feeling like wanna get revenge for my BUST!

Although she who squeeked killed herself later after i was put away....
KARMA is a bitch!!!
again sorry for the rant.

i do agree when it comes to seed buying,its all in the rep,but to MANY here are trying to get that rep???????
Fucking about took a SHIT when i first got on my imac when i got out,all these new seed co's WHAT is going on i said??????

HOLY FNIZZZZZLFITZ!!
and to think i was gonna do that too?
Cant now.

Hopefully FL,gets MED MJ soon..then guess what!
L freakin g!!

 

[DryNobBob]

The chem craze ain't going away, its too good of meds. Maybe the OG kush craze, but not bubba or chem, sorry. Maybe peeps will get on the bandwagon of Blueberry or NL, but its all been gone over so much, why bother. And there is no blueberry or NL or any other homeade strains that are as good as ChemD, I don't care whats in it. Those meds work, unlike many others that taste good but don't help a mouse out with pain. People aren't so concerned with the research and history of strains as much as if the fuckin strain works for what ails em. And ChemD is prolly the most total package of all. You never hear of people saying blueberry, that polyhybrid is too strong. That NL is too strong, too strong of meds, LMFAO. You hear it with the Chem. More than once. So research on, have your own opinion, but believe it that many read what been written, admire the dedication of research and development, but when it comes to the most basic reason people use meds, its for pain relief or relief of some sort, not how the plant growed or what its supposed genetics are. That don't explain the crazy OG Kush, find a seed in a bag, grow it out and rename it, LMFAO, but that shit is starting to be the norm. Look how many cuts of C99 there is, at one time was thought of as the grail, now the evil pineapple, ray davies, some idiots holy grail cut that is a 7 in potency, LMFAO, and others. Its just the game is changing. I wish you luck at BBay, Foeman, its just another bean selling site, I hope your beans bring you some fortune or recognition or whatever is it your searching, as you grow and show pics of amazing stuff, but never seem to be satisfied, lol. I guess you are a scientist more than a stoner, nothing wrong with that.

 

[stickshift]

and yet, getting one out of ten is x4 what science is allowed to expect from drug cannabis. You guys can't just change cannabis into tomatoes because you in your cluelessness of the science, feel like it. I would love whores to rain down on me okay go!! ,,,but I am afraid that's not how it works.

Let them rain!!!! maths doesn't lie.. only people do. (just ask Bushweed!! hmmm bell curves and bell end....)

 

[2 Legal Co]

Hehe nice to see you Lou, you crazy fucker (in the most respectful way brother). I thought it was SK1 you grew and thanks for the confirmation.

You see folks, even with arguably one of the most homozygous and "stable" lines in the history of drug cannabis (Skunk#1), plenty of variation is to be expected with regards to the highly complex genetic combinations that only occasionally come together to form perfection. You'll damn sure be wishing "they all came out like that one there" over and over. To think that a breeder can breed his way around those maths is just wishful thinking for the most part, and to downright expect him to as a customer is just pure ignorance of the plant you are growing imo.

As to what to expect I would say 5% of any crop from seed is a good baseline to start at, of course one of those 5 of 100 will be best, so it's all on a curve and subjective. And it's important to remember too that just because plant number 2 of 5 scores best in smoke tests, plant number 4 of 5 can still be the best breeding plant of the 5. Anyway, this has been my experience over many decades and countless lines of drug cannabis, and I hope I didn't piss off too many folk here in this thread speaking about it, or let my frustrations get the better of me too badly. One final thought, these thoughts are in regards to all cannabis seed I have ever grown, mine, his, hers, nobody is immune or has risen above these truths, myself included, so I surely hope nobody is reading this as some kind of weird sales pitch lol, it's just the truth as I have come to understand it. -Tom

Thx for the info. Now I'll know how much to 'temper' my expectations. lol

 

[OLDproLg]

HEY TOM,i also did c99xdeisel,g13xhaze field pics!!!!

HEY TOM,i also did c99xdeisel,g13xhaze field pics!!!!

Hehe nice to see you Lou, you crazy fucker (in the most respectful way brother). I thought it was SK1 you grew and thanks for the confirmation.

You see folks, even with arguably one of the most homozygous and "stable" lines in the history of drug cannabis (Skunk#1), plenty of variation is to be expected with regards to the highly complex genetic combinations that only occasionally come together to form perfection. You'll damn sure be wishing "they all came out like that one there" over and over. To think that a breeder can breed his way around those maths is just wishful thinking for the most part, and to downright expect him to as a customer is just pure ignorance of the plant you are growing imo.

As to what to expect I would say 5% of any crop from seed is a good baseline to start at, of course one of those 5 of 100 will be best, so it's all on a curve and subjective. And it's important to remember too that just because plant number 2 of 5 scores best in smoke tests, plant number 4 of 5 can still be the best breeding plant of the 5. Anyway, this has been my experience over many decades and countless lines of drug cannabis, and I hope I didn't piss off too many folk here in this thread speaking about it, or let my frustrations get the better of me too badly. One final thought, these thoughts are in regards to all cannabis seed I have ever grown, mine, his, hers, nobody is immune or has risen above these truths, myself included, so I surely hope nobody is reading this as some kind of weird sales pitch lol, it's just the truth as I have come to understand it. -Tom

THier are 3 types of gene pools you see in my pics and SKUNK grown small an TALL in the last few pics!!!
winter vs SUMMER same strain can have way different growing styles!!!!
You think you know a strain.....grow it in 4 or 5 different climates an then tell me som'm?

to me,a strain is NOT tested unless...its grown in dirt,grown in hydro,grown in winter(only i have that option here in fl maybe for usa?))
ggrown in SUMMER outside,grown in a greenhouse excetera?

PLUS SHOW PICS OF YOUR WORK,it would put an end to the mistery!..

AND PLEASE!!...name strains for their FLAVOR if you gonna do anything.
How the fuck care how big it gets,grow more shorties an grow some BALLS hehe!

THATS MY GAME very very pronounced,HIT U IN THU FACE FLAVORS!!!

their is NO other plant that can have that kind of miracle happening period.

AN herb that is smoked,for feeling and flavor right!
HOW PERFECT,now please breed accordily= flavor first,then all that BIG ASSED PLANT HYPE after.

RANT!@breeders..

 

[S2B]

The chem craze ain't going away, its too good of meds.

lmfao...ive yet to find a chem that has found a lasting spot in my room and ive grown pretty much all of them. Sure its potent but so is everything else. Its just boring, nothing really special about it.

Hell nobody will even buy chem 4 around here anymore. Its the big bud of the 2000 and lates....

 

[DryNobBob]

Now you see why they are pushing the Chem4, the sis, and such. They aren't the ChemD, when you grow the chemD, it makes the 4 look like baby weed, not baby weed, its just not near as potent. But thats the latest joke, the 4 is as good or better, etc. LMFAO, no, its not near the same, and its obvious on the west coast, the D is being hoarded again, or peeps are buying one pack of seeds and finding one keeper and renaming it, THE CUT, LMFAO, when its not. or its a selfed seed that is not the same. I've heard this arguement before, hells bells, somebody even made some AlienTech x C4 and its so varied and not even halfway as potent as ChemD, now I don't know if its the alien genetics or the chem4 genetics, but I bet its both and for sure the 4. I've had people say they like the 4 as its more heady and grows and yields better, you'd know thats the real reason for it, yield and ease, not true if you ever grew the real deal cut. Not trying to argue, but I see all the bean pushers pushin the 3,4, sis, some of my bros in Portland got asked to change the name of their ChemD cut to another Chem and then they wanted the cut back, he tole em to get fucked, and he calls it what it is and when you grow it, you know immediately, its different than the cuts they are passin around and the real deal, they wanted it back to hoard it. Pretty simple to see. I wouldn't grow the Chem4 out either, I think I'd stay with the D or the SkunkVA or 91.JMHE

lmfao...ive yet to find a chem that has found a lasting spot in my room and ive grown pretty much all of them. Sure its potent but so is everything else. Its just boring, nothing really special about it.

Hell nobody will even buy chem 4 around here anymore. Its the big bud of the 2000 and lates....

 

[teemu shalanie]

IMO most cannabis cups are bought not won,..... advertizing \

TS

 

[PWF]

thank you for this post.
this bolsters my stance that breeding is very expensive and time consuming. unless you have alot of capital it can bleed just about anybody into the poorhouse. calling me a fucktard, even if it was out the side of your mouth was uncalled for and seems to be the extent of friendindeeds contribution. if breeders actually charged for their time in research seed prices would be alot higher than we see them now. basing the price on real work rather than hype is being a fucktard huh? being in business for ones self is hard and very few succeed in spite of their skill. there is such a disconnect from the reality of what it actually takes to make acceptable seed in some of these posts that i can totally tell who is doing it and who isnt. it isnt esp to see who is a kind person and who thinks very highly of themselves too.
btw, i never said a breeder should charge for his time but that a breeder who sells his own seed should always consider his time because time is money.
i appreciate the insight in this thread.
old pro and tom hills posts in particular.
thank you,
pwf

that is correct Blue Green, no garentee of that, in fact I'd more readily gaurentee the opposite, hehe.

It was some mendelian who must have said that "just cross your two favorites". And if we were breeding for leaf shape or wrinkled peas it would work too. But no it doesn't work that way.

How it works is like this: You step up to the plate expecting to fail, and you will the vast majority of the time. You set aside all that ego and artsie crap and rely on good old maths. So because you go in understanding that you will fail mostly, you take many shots at it, you breed your two favorites, one favorite with 3rd favorite, and so on, then you evaluate what came out best. By the way, I don't believe anybody ever factored in all the bird seed I've thrown away over the years getting pimpslapped by the crosses that failed, now who's willing to pay me for those efforts lol?