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SecondAttempt's first attempt at PPKs...
- Thread starter SecondAttempt
- Start date
Alien_Dawg
Active member
Ev
:Keep in mind that the coco's drainage properties will change as the root mass develops. So what drains now without puddling may sooner than later start to puddle... That said, better distribution is hard to argue with.
SecondAttempt
Active member
I was thinking about that... I'm goig to get a better timer. At 1200 gph that's 20 gallons per minute (if the pump is up to spec) divided by 12 PPK sites is 1.667 gallons per site per minute, so yeah I may need to dial the "on" time of the pump way down.
SecondAttempt
Active member
Anybody familiar with this timer
http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-Blueprint-120v-Cycle-Timer.asp
??????????????????????????????????
http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-Blueprint-120v-Cycle-Timer.asp
??????????????????????????????????
I've used this one for 3 years now: http://www.hydroasis.com/hy/productdetail.aspx?id=1417
not necessarily from this supplier..
day/night/both photocell.
not necessarily from this supplier..
day/night/both photocell.
SecondAttempt
Active member
I'm going to post pics tomorrow... plants no longer look over watered, as a matter of fact some (most) look amazing, wait until you see. But a few are still struggling, I think Cal/mag issues, I've been following Dave The Newbie's thread (I'm in coco too.) I foliar fed with Cal/Mag but see no difference yet. Is it possible for plants that are in coco that I didn't precharge to display deficiences while plants in coco I did charge have made the turn and are doing killer even though they are all tied together? Seems feasible, I mixed three blocks, 2 charged, one not, oops.
SecondAttempt
Active member
Update
Update
Day three in the PPK
One week later
WOW!
This is Donut #2... didn't show it last week. That far plant is Confidential Cheese, looks like shit, I'm going to give it on more week to straighten out.
This is the most Mag deficient plant... Foliar fed it CalMag twice.
GigaBud loves PPK life
Update
Day three in the PPK
One week later
WOW!
This is Donut #2... didn't show it last week. That far plant is Confidential Cheese, looks like shit, I'm going to give it on more week to straighten out.
This is the most Mag deficient plant... Foliar fed it CalMag twice.
GigaBud loves PPK life
Twice and no change? Looks like root aphids from where I'm sitting.
Hope not though...Stay Safe!
SecondAttempt
Active member
I see no Aphids but I'm starting to worry... I want to exhaust all options before blasting these girls with Imid.
Even the best plant shows deficiencies... they have all grown a ton though even through the deficiency.
I'm using GH Flora 6/9 the same as I've always used in Coco, I also have some Agsil16H (2ml per gallon) and some GH Calimagic(2ml per gallon) in the mix... should I be running 8/16 instead of 6/9?
I'm experiencing a similar scenario as Dave the Newbie with my pH dropping, I originally set it to 5.8 and it dropped to 5.4... I added the AgSil16 and brought it back to 5.8, the next day it was 5.4 so I added GH pH up back to 5.8 pH and guess what right back to 5.4. MyNameIsStich's infirmary page says Mag locks out below 5.7... so maybe that's my deficiency? But I can't get the pH to stabilize at 5.8, what do I do.
Should I drain the system and start with a fresh mix? I was given some FloraDuo the other night anyone reccomend that instead of the Flora? I was planning to switch to Jack's when I used up my GH, but right now it's all I have and need to straighten this out ASAP.
In the spirit of full disclosure my environment hasn't been ideal... I was running 58-60 degrees lights out and 67 degrees lights on with an 8-4-8-4 schedule like D9 runs... I was going to add a heater but for the same watts I decided to up the lights to 24 hours on, now my temp is stable at 69 degrees. My humidity is at 40%. I'm in the Northeast and this winter just won't end.
Even the best plant shows deficiencies... they have all grown a ton though even through the deficiency.
I'm using GH Flora 6/9 the same as I've always used in Coco, I also have some Agsil16H (2ml per gallon) and some GH Calimagic(2ml per gallon) in the mix... should I be running 8/16 instead of 6/9?
I'm experiencing a similar scenario as Dave the Newbie with my pH dropping, I originally set it to 5.8 and it dropped to 5.4... I added the AgSil16 and brought it back to 5.8, the next day it was 5.4 so I added GH pH up back to 5.8 pH and guess what right back to 5.4. MyNameIsStich's infirmary page says Mag locks out below 5.7... so maybe that's my deficiency? But I can't get the pH to stabilize at 5.8, what do I do.
Should I drain the system and start with a fresh mix? I was given some FloraDuo the other night anyone reccomend that instead of the Flora? I was planning to switch to Jack's when I used up my GH, but right now it's all I have and need to straighten this out ASAP.
In the spirit of full disclosure my environment hasn't been ideal... I was running 58-60 degrees lights out and 67 degrees lights on with an 8-4-8-4 schedule like D9 runs... I was going to add a heater but for the same watts I decided to up the lights to 24 hours on, now my temp is stable at 69 degrees. My humidity is at 40%. I'm in the Northeast and this winter just won't end.
SecondAttempt
Active member
The best plant shows Cal deficency, Nirvana's Master Kush
The worst plant, Confidential Cheese... has doubled in size through the deficency though.
The worst plant, Confidential Cheese... has doubled in size through the deficency though.
SecondAttempt
Active member
So while I wait for advice on my dying plants I figured I'd modify my feed manifold to accept 1/2 inch lines in place of the original 1/4 inch lines which we decided was holding the pulse volume bback.
I never bothered showing the original manifold build becasue it was decided early on to go bigger, thanks Forkup.
Neccessity is the mother of modification...
Parts
3/4 X 3/4 X 1/2 tees
1/2 inch hose
hold down stakes fashioned from wire coat hangers
I originally staked the tees over the edge of the upper media bucket, but they wouldn't sit right
So I went through the side of the media container, the end of the line terminates in a tee, I bought twice as many as I needed so I can expand the system later.
The other side of the feed line also terminates in tees which are joined by my original 3/4 inch manifold line cut up
Once all the feed lines are joined it all looks like this.
I never bothered showing the original manifold build becasue it was decided early on to go bigger, thanks Forkup.
Neccessity is the mother of modification...
Parts
3/4 X 3/4 X 1/2 tees
1/2 inch hose
hold down stakes fashioned from wire coat hangers
I originally staked the tees over the edge of the upper media bucket, but they wouldn't sit right
So I went through the side of the media container, the end of the line terminates in a tee, I bought twice as many as I needed so I can expand the system later.
The other side of the feed line also terminates in tees which are joined by my original 3/4 inch manifold line cut up
Once all the feed lines are joined it all looks like this.
SecondAttempt
Active member
When I kicked the pump on my first thought was that the 1/2 inch lines didn't change much... but then the res sucked dry in less than a minute... it used to take 3+ minutes
Now I get that all important surface puddling which should drag more oxygen down into the root zone
If there are no suggestions about the health of the plants by this time tomorrow I'm going to hit them with Bayer Complete.
Now I get that all important surface puddling which should drag more oxygen down into the root zone
If there are no suggestions about the health of the plants by this time tomorrow I'm going to hit them with Bayer Complete.
SecondAttempt
Active member
How do I post my pics so hovering over them increase there size so you guys don't have to click on each? Is that why I'm not getting much traffic?
Mag deficiency signs and pH dropping spell problems in the root zone.
Whether it's aphids or not, you have something actively working against you. All the research I've done in the past points to aphids though. Lost 52 mums/dads to that when I first moved to Colorado... your stuff is looking the same.
Garrrrr!
Stay Safe!
Whether it's aphids or not, you have something actively working against you. All the research I've done in the past points to aphids though. Lost 52 mums/dads to that when I first moved to Colorado... your stuff is looking the same.
Garrrrr!
Stay Safe!
SecondAttempt
Active member
I yanked the worst plant to inspect the roots and saw nothing... I mean the roots didn't look good, but they've been saturated for a week... Maybe the better pulse/oxygen will help. I may increase the air gap a half inch if the pulse doesn't change anything.
If I dunk the rootball in hot water will the little fuckers float to the top? I'm pretty sure I've read something about that, I'm going to try.
If I dunk the rootball in hot water will the little fuckers float to the top? I'm pretty sure I've read something about that, I'm going to try.
Hey 2nd,
Will you go over the basics of the system again (for troubleshooting).
Your pulse is fast. Running 1/2 lines to feed.
Delay between pulses?
What is the consistency of the coco?
(Coffee grinds through croutons, long fibers, etc? How spongy was it before you put the plants in?)
When you say that the media is saturated, what do you mean?
What are you feeding?
What is your bulk tank starting at?
What are your base tanks staying at?
Mag deficiency often = shitheads in the RZ.
Mag def is often the first display when the RZ is getting compromised.
RAs are visible to the young eye. Older eyes might need help. Beat on the sides of the containers, or scuff up the top of the coco and see if anyone comes out to say hi.
Get some sticky traps and either tape them to the containers, or rap them around the main plant stems. If you've got bugs, some of them will probably get trapped sooner than later.
If you can't get the yellow traps, consider a full nute foliar and see if the deficiencies start to disappear... then you know you got problems in the RZ.
Let's get this fixed.
Will you go over the basics of the system again (for troubleshooting).
Your pulse is fast. Running 1/2 lines to feed.
Delay between pulses?
What is the consistency of the coco?
(Coffee grinds through croutons, long fibers, etc? How spongy was it before you put the plants in?)
When you say that the media is saturated, what do you mean?
What are you feeding?
What is your bulk tank starting at?
What are your base tanks staying at?
Mag deficiency often = shitheads in the RZ.
Mag def is often the first display when the RZ is getting compromised.
RAs are visible to the young eye. Older eyes might need help. Beat on the sides of the containers, or scuff up the top of the coco and see if anyone comes out to say hi.
Get some sticky traps and either tape them to the containers, or rap them around the main plant stems. If you've got bugs, some of them will probably get trapped sooner than later.
If you can't get the yellow traps, consider a full nute foliar and see if the deficiencies start to disappear... then you know you got problems in the RZ.
Let's get this fixed.
SecondAttempt
Active member
the 1/2" lines have only been running for 24 hours
I was running 2 minutes every 2 hours through the 1/4" lines (just to make sure the pump didn't run dry)
Now I'm running one minute every 2 hours and very nearly draining the res, that's at least 20 gallons split between 12 sites... so media is getting quite saturated.
Coco is 1/2 croutons 1/2 coffee grinds brand new, not recycled... 5 kg blocks baked in the oven at 180 degrees for 1.5-2 hours each. Rinsed until EC coming out matches the tap EC going in. I forgot to precharge one block with CalMag... I've used this media as described DTW for several cycles now.
I'm using GH FloraMicro and Flora Bloom at 6/9, Head's coco modified Lucas formula as a base. I used 2ml gallon GH CaliMagic in the initial mix to compensate for the brick I forgot to precharge. I have AgSil16H mixed to match the EC of my bottle of Grotek Pro-Silicate 2ml per gallon.
Bulk tank set to 5.8 pH currently 1.32 EC 66.3 degrees Faranheit... Just FloraMicro and Bloom, and rapidstart hoping to get roots growing.
feeder tank was initially dropping to 5.4, but this morning was at 5.6, measured it just now at 1.48 EC(that's including CalMagic and Silicate) 65.8 degrees F so I hope we're turning the corner with better oxygenation of the rootzone.
both rezes are dechlorinated running mosquito dunks and a pinch of dry pond enzyme.
Also it wasn't asked but my air gap is 3".
I had similar symptoms during veg last run DTW (not as drastic though) I chalked it up to cold temps. plants flowered well but didn't stretch at flip for shit so yield was diminished.
My eyes are young by years but probably old because of HIDs... I've been using a 30X loupe, I just picked up a better scope (100X magnification) so I'm going to check the roots again. If it is the worst I'm going to order nematodes... I really don't want to nuke my wife's medicine.
I put up sticky traps already, I'm off to check them and inspect my roots with my new toy.
Thanks IF, I appreciate all you're doing to help.
I was running 2 minutes every 2 hours through the 1/4" lines (just to make sure the pump didn't run dry)
Now I'm running one minute every 2 hours and very nearly draining the res, that's at least 20 gallons split between 12 sites... so media is getting quite saturated.
Coco is 1/2 croutons 1/2 coffee grinds brand new, not recycled... 5 kg blocks baked in the oven at 180 degrees for 1.5-2 hours each. Rinsed until EC coming out matches the tap EC going in. I forgot to precharge one block with CalMag... I've used this media as described DTW for several cycles now.
I'm using GH FloraMicro and Flora Bloom at 6/9, Head's coco modified Lucas formula as a base. I used 2ml gallon GH CaliMagic in the initial mix to compensate for the brick I forgot to precharge. I have AgSil16H mixed to match the EC of my bottle of Grotek Pro-Silicate 2ml per gallon.
Bulk tank set to 5.8 pH currently 1.32 EC 66.3 degrees Faranheit... Just FloraMicro and Bloom, and rapidstart hoping to get roots growing.
feeder tank was initially dropping to 5.4, but this morning was at 5.6, measured it just now at 1.48 EC(that's including CalMagic and Silicate) 65.8 degrees F so I hope we're turning the corner with better oxygenation of the rootzone.
both rezes are dechlorinated running mosquito dunks and a pinch of dry pond enzyme.
Also it wasn't asked but my air gap is 3".
I had similar symptoms during veg last run DTW (not as drastic though) I chalked it up to cold temps. plants flowered well but didn't stretch at flip for shit so yield was diminished.
My eyes are young by years but probably old because of HIDs... I've been using a 30X loupe, I just picked up a better scope (100X magnification) so I'm going to check the roots again. If it is the worst I'm going to order nematodes... I really don't want to nuke my wife's medicine.
I put up sticky traps already, I'm off to check them and inspect my roots with my new toy.
Thanks IF, I appreciate all you're doing to help.
Damn.
Your prep is thorough.
180 precook should nuke any living pests... and mosquito dunks (provided they're active cultures) should do a pretty decent job with larval stages of RA.
Recalling that things were rootbound at one point, I was thinking of root die off as a potential problem, but you've got the enzymes covered.
My eyes see RAs pretty easy without secondary magnification, but it seems unlikely that this is the culprit with your preemptive protocols.
How does the newest growth compare to the older growth? If there is consistent new growth without displays, it often signals that you're past the problem.
If, for whatever reason, your roots haven't pushed past the root bound area (I've seen this as a problem for plants held in solo cups for extended periods of time) there may be a fundamental problem there in that the RZ region is funamentally different then the unpopulated media.
In this case, root pruning can induce root spread (following the expected trauma/shock phase).
Positioning your pulse directly over the center of the plant (at the main stem) might be beneficial. You need to feed the roots nutes and O2... not the unpopulated media.
What is your access to clones?
With your prep, this kind of thing shouldn't be happening. Stalled, slow plants rarely perform the way non-stalled plants do over a full life cycle. It sucks to replant, but if you've got meds in jars for your wife, you might have a net gain in yield over time if you can restart with clones that are in good shape.
How does your Lucas modified solution actually profile out?
The 'worst' plant image shows purpleing on your stems. This, if not pheno-natural, often is representative of P lockout (from too much P). If your nute regime is P heavy, it might be accumulating in solution as it continually gets rinsed out of the media into your lower buckets to the point of becoming toxic.
If this is the case, a full system flush, pulse with tap for a day, and a system restart should show an almost immediate response.
Then you just need to find a different formula (or Jacks) for the long term project.
Even if the old formula worked DTW, recirculating nutes and DTW nute profiles are not always interchangeable.
***OKAY***
What are we overlooking?
Your prep is thorough.
180 precook should nuke any living pests... and mosquito dunks (provided they're active cultures) should do a pretty decent job with larval stages of RA.
Recalling that things were rootbound at one point, I was thinking of root die off as a potential problem, but you've got the enzymes covered.
My eyes see RAs pretty easy without secondary magnification, but it seems unlikely that this is the culprit with your preemptive protocols.
How does the newest growth compare to the older growth? If there is consistent new growth without displays, it often signals that you're past the problem.
If, for whatever reason, your roots haven't pushed past the root bound area (I've seen this as a problem for plants held in solo cups for extended periods of time) there may be a fundamental problem there in that the RZ region is funamentally different then the unpopulated media.
In this case, root pruning can induce root spread (following the expected trauma/shock phase).
Positioning your pulse directly over the center of the plant (at the main stem) might be beneficial. You need to feed the roots nutes and O2... not the unpopulated media.
What is your access to clones?
With your prep, this kind of thing shouldn't be happening. Stalled, slow plants rarely perform the way non-stalled plants do over a full life cycle. It sucks to replant, but if you've got meds in jars for your wife, you might have a net gain in yield over time if you can restart with clones that are in good shape.
How does your Lucas modified solution actually profile out?
The 'worst' plant image shows purpleing on your stems. This, if not pheno-natural, often is representative of P lockout (from too much P). If your nute regime is P heavy, it might be accumulating in solution as it continually gets rinsed out of the media into your lower buckets to the point of becoming toxic.
If this is the case, a full system flush, pulse with tap for a day, and a system restart should show an almost immediate response.
Then you just need to find a different formula (or Jacks) for the long term project.
Even if the old formula worked DTW, recirculating nutes and DTW nute profiles are not always interchangeable.
***OKAY***
What are we overlooking?
