O
otis33
I like the grommets and tees connecting your bottom buckets, I've been trying to find something better than what I have currently that isn't super expensive.
SecondAttempt's first attempt at PPKs...
- Thread starter SecondAttempt
- Start date
O
otis33
My first ppk run my plants pretty much took of with multiple top feeds, but with a different strain on this run they seemed overwatered watering once or twice a day. I hand watered once a day for a few days and although they looked better they were not growing like last time. I made the air gap a bit bigger and let the coco get a bit dryer hoping the roots would fill out looking for water. After a couple days I increased the feeds and the thing finally hooked up and I started getting noticeable daily growth.
It is not uncommon to see a transplant stall whenever transplanting is involved. How vigorous were the clones before you moved them (root bound?)?
You haven't discussed pulse durations/volumes/pump size etc.
Additionally, you haven't talked about the porosity of your media.
There are two approaches to the pulse--sufficiency and saturation.
Saturation hopes to displace all old gasses in the system with a pulse that pushes out the old air and brings in new as it drains.
It presupposes some drainage, and calls to question the idea that there is a need to 'dry out' the media (as it moves more air through by way of displacement).
Some unconvetional yields have been pulled from very small root systems exploiting this concept. (Very unconventional yields from very unconventionally small root zones.)
All that bullshit aside: Sick Donut, and I don't doubt those girls will snap out of their groggyness in no time.
(Nutes?)
You haven't discussed pulse durations/volumes/pump size etc.
Additionally, you haven't talked about the porosity of your media.
There are two approaches to the pulse--sufficiency and saturation.
Saturation hopes to displace all old gasses in the system with a pulse that pushes out the old air and brings in new as it drains.
It presupposes some drainage, and calls to question the idea that there is a need to 'dry out' the media (as it moves more air through by way of displacement).
Some unconvetional yields have been pulled from very small root systems exploiting this concept. (Very unconventional yields from very unconventionally small root zones.)
All that bullshit aside: Sick Donut, and I don't doubt those girls will snap out of their groggyness in no time.
(Nutes?)
Alien_Dawg
Active member
I.
I really like this set up.. Great idea on the line rings on the floor...
I just like every thing about this shot...
So well done... Damb bro.. Work em like they owe you money...
Im sure you can turn them ladies around.. That set up is going to be golden...
Leave a set of large limb cutters in the middle of the doughnut and them ladies will start woken for ya..
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hey, with this set up you should be running a pulse of about 32 oz's every 30 minutes with a 4" air gap. turn that pulse back on and they will straighten out fast.
is that turface?
i really like those rings!
SecondAttempt
Active member
Otis I like the grommets/fittings too, no leaks, I used silicone to be sure though.
IF, media is coco, half chunky half coir, rinsed and precharged with calmag. Drains pretty fast. Nutes are GH FLORA 6/9... PH has remained stable at 5.8-5.9, my blulab bounces between the two. I didn't add drip clean, shouldn't need it right?
I'm using this pump http://www.harborfreight.com/14-horsepower-clear-water-pump-with-float-switch-68486.html 1200 GPH, but oh yeah I have two donuts running off it teed, that's twelve sites. I may grab a second pump and split the donuts up so I can get more water in quicker?
I ran the pump until the res was just above the pumps minimum pickup to see how much water I could put through the system (It took three minutes). They look over watered before that but that is several gallons through each site. I haven't measured actual volume though.
Clones were probably vegged too long in SOLO cups, I've transplanted worse. though.
Alien, They do owe me money.
Thanks for stopping by D9... media is coco, half chunky half coir. what happens if my pulse is way more than 32 ozs? My timer only goes down to one minute on and my pump is large... new timer here I come?
I figure I should answer before someone asks, lights are 1k per donut on a vertical mover, mover won't fire off until flower though.
IF, media is coco, half chunky half coir, rinsed and precharged with calmag. Drains pretty fast. Nutes are GH FLORA 6/9... PH has remained stable at 5.8-5.9, my blulab bounces between the two. I didn't add drip clean, shouldn't need it right?
I'm using this pump http://www.harborfreight.com/14-horsepower-clear-water-pump-with-float-switch-68486.html 1200 GPH, but oh yeah I have two donuts running off it teed, that's twelve sites. I may grab a second pump and split the donuts up so I can get more water in quicker?
I ran the pump until the res was just above the pumps minimum pickup to see how much water I could put through the system (It took three minutes). They look over watered before that but that is several gallons through each site. I haven't measured actual volume though.
Clones were probably vegged too long in SOLO cups, I've transplanted worse. though.
Alien, They do owe me money.
Thanks for stopping by D9... media is coco, half chunky half coir. what happens if my pulse is way more than 32 ozs? My timer only goes down to one minute on and my pump is large... new timer here I come?
I figure I should answer before someone asks, lights are 1k per donut on a vertical mover, mover won't fire off until flower though.
Pump size is more than adequate (provided it performs to spec).
Your primary restriction appears to be in the 1/4 feeder lines, but with that kind of reduction from your mainline I'm guessing that your getting pretty even distribution site-to-site.
Turn your pulse back on. Let it work. Give the plants time to grow out of their solo-boundedness and into the environment you think you're going to run (i.e. a pulsed media). Root structures grow based on environment... if you're root bound at all, they'll just need some time to deal with that shit. Pulse the shit out of it (so you'll never have to increase it down the road) and let the plant grow into those conditions. As the RZ and the plant evolves, it will change it's structure as the plant evolves in the consistent conditions.
Saturation is saturation. The only thing that might happen as your RZ starts to fill up with roots is a reduction in drainage... which might result in spillage if you over-pulse your lip-capacity. That said, there looks like you have plenty space between the top of the media and the lip of the container. I wouldn't worry.
Get your pulse on. I mean turn it on. Not some kind of party-comment.
Don't mess with it unless you see something radically off... if they just look stalled, don't worry. Let them grow into the system.
As for drip-clean... you shouldn't need it to keep build up in the media. The saturation pulse should keep things in solution and flowing through without build up. But it's sucrose based isn't it? It might influence other dynamics in the system. Depends on what it actually is, what it actually does, and how you use it (feeding a microherd?).
Why not get the light mover moving right now?
Unless you want to induce certain kinds of stretch...
Great baseline system.
Will be watching to see the tweakdialage.
Looks fun.
O
otis33
Does your pulse evenly water your container? mine was the same (1/4 with a pvc coupler) and it didn't evenly cover the top bucket with water. I ended up making rings and getting a bigger pump. I am now saturating the whole thing and getting a nice puddle, and displacing all the gas in the medium. I am hoping for improvement on what was already good results. I'm going to have to borrow some of you're design ideas. . I'm loving your set up and excited to watch this one play out.
SecondAttempt
Active member
I may have to do rings as Otis described... no puddle, coco drains too fast. This is more like recirculating coco with wicks as a backup, that's why I was thinking second pump, to get that saturation on top of the media that sits a second then drops dragging all the old gasses with it.
Pulse is on... 2 minutes every 2 hours, I'll give it a few days and report back.
As far as the props for the design goes I mostly borrowed from others... Screens are Ichabod's creation, inspired by Marlo I believe. Feeder ring manifold lots of people have done but Arminus had a pic of the feeder ring in his old DTW setup that I thought was clean enough to borrow.
I hope to make you all proud.
Pulse is on... 2 minutes every 2 hours, I'll give it a few days and report back.
As far as the props for the design goes I mostly borrowed from others... Screens are Ichabod's creation, inspired by Marlo I believe. Feeder ring manifold lots of people have done but Arminus had a pic of the feeder ring in his old DTW setup that I thought was clean enough to borrow.
I hope to make you all proud.
SecondAttempt
Active member
I was going to place the rest of the build pics in one of the above double posts but every time I edit one the system edits both posts, bizzaro.
So I missed showing a very important step earlier... screens at the bottom of the tails
Screens are fiberglass window screening easily picked up at any big box store or Mega-lo-Mart. I secured them with zip ties, if you're not familiar with zip ties stop reading my thread climb out from under your rock and smash yourself in the face with a bigger rock. I'm kidding, but seriously got these ties at Harbor Freight on sale $.99 for 100, I bought many many packs.
D9 is using hose clamps to secure his screens which are nice, and reusable, so long as they don't rust too bad. I'm looking forward to see how they hold up for him because I would like to use them moving forward.
The bands on most readily available clamps are Stainless Steel, but the worm gear screw usually isn't, stupid design. Marine and Military grade are 100% Stainless. If you want to go the hose clamp route and want to do it as inexpensively as possible go to the autoparts store and ask for boxes of 10 instead of the overpriced 2 pack they have on display. The kid behind the counter will tell you they don't have boxes. They do, ask for the wholesale guy that sells to shops he'll have boxes cheap. They will not be 100% Stainless though FYI.
Guess what I do IRL.
I recommend securing your screens before siliconing your tailpieces, although I didn't. I wound up siliconing them again because while working with the screens I messed up my original silicone job. I also siliconed the bottoms of my media tubs for extra strong tailpieces.
So I missed showing a very important step earlier... screens at the bottom of the tails
Screens are fiberglass window screening easily picked up at any big box store or Mega-lo-Mart. I secured them with zip ties, if you're not familiar with zip ties stop reading my thread climb out from under your rock and smash yourself in the face with a bigger rock. I'm kidding, but seriously got these ties at Harbor Freight on sale $.99 for 100, I bought many many packs.
D9 is using hose clamps to secure his screens which are nice, and reusable, so long as they don't rust too bad. I'm looking forward to see how they hold up for him because I would like to use them moving forward.
The bands on most readily available clamps are Stainless Steel, but the worm gear screw usually isn't, stupid design. Marine and Military grade are 100% Stainless. If you want to go the hose clamp route and want to do it as inexpensively as possible go to the autoparts store and ask for boxes of 10 instead of the overpriced 2 pack they have on display. The kid behind the counter will tell you they don't have boxes. They do, ask for the wholesale guy that sells to shops he'll have boxes cheap. They will not be 100% Stainless though FYI.
Guess what I do IRL.
I recommend securing your screens before siliconing your tailpieces, although I didn't. I wound up siliconing them again because while working with the screens I messed up my original silicone job. I also siliconed the bottoms of my media tubs for extra strong tailpieces.
forkup
Member
I'll pull up a seat for another ppk show, nice setup SA. If you're gonna try saturation pulsing I'd think about replacing the 1/4" lines with 3/8" or even 1/2" to increase the flow rate. A 1200 gph pump should handle 12 plants with ease if unrestricted. Media porosity sounds ok if it drains that well. I expect this setup to do very well. Plants love coco, D9s heaviest was grown in coco unless he's did better this last run. I agree they look over watered but as IF says go ahead and pulse, give them the proven environment and let them adjust.
SecondAttempt
Active member
I used the 1/4" stuff because I had it laying around... I'm definitely willing to upgrade if need be, I just found fittings on US Plastics 3/4 X 3/4 X 1/2 and the same but for 3/8 so either is an option, any input on which way to go?
SecondAttempt
Active member
No need I guess, but by the flip side why silicone it at all?... I know D9 isn't siliconing currently. I had the silicone and it really strengthened the tails to the top bucket.
Here are some more build pics...
I enlarged the holes in the lids to 2 inches, I originally planned on the lids being pretty permanent to the bottoms of the top tubs but they are hard to seal to the buckets so it's better they be permanent to the buckets. Now the tailpieces complete with screening and zip ties (as shown above) slide rather loosely through the lids, these larger holes also allow and upper bucket to fit any lid.
See the difference? The hole on the lower lid is LARGER.
I used a piece of wood to drill all lid holes, first the 1.5" (inner ring) then the 2" upgraded holes (outer ring) If you are using a hole saw on something flat and thin this helps keep it centered.
Here are some more build pics...
I enlarged the holes in the lids to 2 inches, I originally planned on the lids being pretty permanent to the bottoms of the top tubs but they are hard to seal to the buckets so it's better they be permanent to the buckets. Now the tailpieces complete with screening and zip ties (as shown above) slide rather loosely through the lids, these larger holes also allow and upper bucket to fit any lid.
See the difference? The hole on the lower lid is LARGER.
I used a piece of wood to drill all lid holes, first the 1.5" (inner ring) then the 2" upgraded holes (outer ring) If you are using a hole saw on something flat and thin this helps keep it centered.
Nutes eat silicone... at least that was my experience.
Great thread so far.
Stay Safe!
Great thread so far.
Stay Safe!
Evolution rocks... 
Been useing the prescribed.. "GOOP" but less and less.Nutes eat silicone... at least that was my experience.
Great thread so far.
Stay Safe!
SecondAttempt
Active member
Just ordered these in 3/4X3/4X1/2
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=22808&catid=465
rebuild of top feed system this week. Thanks Forkup for nudging me forward.
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=22808&catid=465
rebuild of top feed system this week. Thanks Forkup for nudging me forward.
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question for sam the skunkman on the original haze
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