Everybody a breeder ?

[silverhazefiend]

Hmmm what I'm about to say is not an attack on anybody

I can see why some say its ok for anybody to sell seeds bc they have an intrest or there intrest or bizzness relies on this said products (seeds) it would be almost hypocritcal to say its ok for u and not someone else ..so u have to take the whole hearted approach and accept everyone ..especially if ur not in a position or of world renowned status to make such a call ..

I can also see why it would be ok bc u need to have medicore products to show the difference between something good and something medicore ..at what cost tho ? At the cost of the customer ? ..he has to suffer and grow half ass genetics just to realize he should have went with X instead of Y ..u can do alot of research but until u grow the product u can't be certain of what ur getting ..and ur opinion even if it's the truth ..will hold no merit bc the first thing the naysayers (breeder/breeders flunkies) will say is did u grow it ? If u didnt grow it u can't have an opinion ..and it will be dismissed ..so the truth will get lost or buried behind the "hype" ..I think if we start to limit the half ass gentics and stop with flooding of said genetics we would be in a better place ...

For example there's tons of people still growing medicore stuff and they don't kno better ..an it's not bc they want to they just don't kno better ..
They buy medicore strain A and think its ok ..til they grow medicore strain B which isn't much better but bc it's better than A ..they think it's great bc it's better than A ..but in reality there both medicore ..sometimes it's not until someone gives them something out of this world when they realized ..they have been wasting there time growing medicore strain A+B ..

Here where the problem comes in ..people might not wanna admit it ..or they don't wanna hurt or say bad things about a breeder and keep it to there self ..thus hiding the truth ..I kno the motto is if u have nothing good to say ..don't say anything at all ..but in this bizzness is that true ??

 

[Tom Hill]

Well from a breeder of cannabis' point of view (and cannabis itself I might add) good genetics are good genetics, mediocre genetics are good genetics, bad genetics are good genetics, the more divergent families the better, period. I wrestled with this believe you me, and it boils down to this. All the time I've put in, and the sweat n blood and all that shit, I might make a mistake... And mathematics allow for some know-nothing punk to have accidently done a better job, it fucking happens man. So from my grandsons point of view (and cannabis' itself), can we excuse any stifling whatsover regarding the sexual propegation of the species? I think the answer is most deffinately a no. -Tom

 

[hamstring]

A little off topic but expanding on someone else's comments.

I do believe eventually MJ will be legal in all 50 states. Not in my life time but when it does clones will no longer be the viable method of prorogation. Sure some people who enjoy growing their own will trade cuts (probably many who hang out here) but commercially its not a viable business case.

Just as mentioned the people who provide the MJ to masses will be using seed and they will want very reliable seed strains to plant in fields. Same goes with hemp farmers and although I am not familiar with the process I would bet its done with seeds. I would also bet these seeds are bred to have the characteristics that best fit what hemp is used for. They dont want a bunch of phenos they want mono-culture.

Same goes for commercial grown MJ clones will cease to exist except among the hobbiest.

My opinion is all commercial crop growers of all annual plants use seeds. So good breeders of seed will always be needed.

 

[Tom Hill]

fullUntil reverse breeding takes over (inevitable I think) asexual propagation will absolutely rule all comercial production. Yes, hemp is grown from seed but only because hemp has much less to consider without getting into the incredibly complex issues of medicinal effects.

 

[silverhazefiend]

Well from a breeder of cannabis' point of view (and cannabis itself I might add) good genetics are good genetics, mediocre genetics are good genetics, bad genetics are good genetics, the more divergent families the better, period. I wrestled with this believe you me, and it boils down to this. All the time I've put in, and the sweat n blood and all that shit, I might make a mistake... And mathematics allow for some know-nothing punk to have accidently done a better job, it fucking happens man. So from my grandsons point of view (and cannabis' itself), can we excuse any stifling whatsover regarding the sexual propegation of the species? I think the answer is most deffinately a no. -Tom

I like that response TOM ..I see what ur saying ..and for u to admit u can make a mistake and someone can get lucky in the same sense I respect that ..i guess we can't stop the stifling like u said but we can acknowledge it ..and I think alot more people have acknowledged this also

 

[Tom Hill]

if you look at why cannabis make us feel the way it does, and do the maths on over 100 terpenes interacting with other cannabinoids, it quickly becomes closer to strawberry, than corn, the former of which is course propagated asexually, just like any other 5%/- plant of exceptional value.

 

[symbiote420]

1st off, I have to say mad respect to you TH for stepping into such a heated debate and having killer answers and food for thought bro! 2nd, I thought the true purpose of internet forums were to get the facts out there ....seems they only add to the confusion. I think it's easy to tell the peeps trying to cash in on the biz ....mashing and releasing strains no more than 8 to 9 months after a seed release of one or both parents is a big red flag for me!

 

[Tom Hill]

From the narrowest sense of view, get the germplasm you want without regard to where you got it or how much he knew about what he was doing. If the opportunity presents itself, get it from someone who knows what he/she is doing, or perhaps poured more of their soul/time into it if that moves you. But at the end of the day, don't point fingers because that guy who started it all might breed it into the ground, and you (and cannabis) should rejoice that this canadian hack (or whoever) still has it in a form that is valuable to you. It's not too very complicated

 

[boho]

At the end of the day we can speculate about the future but this industry is going to change pretty majorly in the coming years and I believe it will be for the good of the plant and the end line consumer.

I also like the word consumer, I self proscribe the name. It's what we all do is consume the world and our leftovers are for the next generation. Eat well my friends.

 

[Infinitesimal]

well I know that one retail place in particular has taken a step in the right direction and has boycotted from selling Greenhouse and Big Buddha Seeds...

I am more worried about the pimping of the cannabis species by way of these huge overly marketed, lying, hack job, main line industry breeders than any closet chucker... lets face it these companies can spread their weak genetics to a thousand fold the amount people will even hear of the average pollen chucker

but tom is right, the more the better... for cannabis... and subsequently us. Though that said, I still would like to see the quality of cannabis progress rather than digress... as I have seen (in general, if you don't grow it... it is getting harder and harder to find true quality cannabis, in Cali at least) over the last 10+ years

 

[Sativa Dragon]

this canadian hack (or whoever) still has it in a form that is valuable to you. It's not too very complicated

Hey I resemble that comment....

 

[Sativa Dragon]

For example there's tons of people still growing medicore stuff and they don't kno better ..an it's not bc they want to they just don't kno better ..
They buy medicore strain A and think its ok ..til they grow medicore strain B which isn't much better but bc it's better than A ..they think it's great bc it's better than A ..but in reality there both medicore

kinda Sounds like the cutomer is happy....
Ofcourse until he drives a porche and then he wants one of those, pretty much the way marketing works, every car maker is not the same, but every car maker wants you to buy there car, one car may not be good for everyone, but certainly there is a car for everyone, they need to try a few before they know the difference.

Thats why variety is the spice of life.

Peace

 

[hamstring]

if you look at why cannabis make us feel the way it does, and do the maths on over 100 terpenes interacting with other cannabinoids, it quickly becomes closer to strawberry, than corn, the former of which is course propagated asexually, just like any other 5%/- plant of exceptional value.

Not a breeder or an expert just a man with an opinion.

Tobacco is also grown for how it makes you feel and is grown from seed. My argument is not with the science of your statement but with your understanding of the human race.

Asexual reproduction will cost more (no infrastructure) and consumers want to get high(alcohol, nicotine, whatever). Large industrial grown fields of MJ , in my opinion, will be seed. No one will cares if its the best MJ (or tobacco) they just want the cheapest way to get high. i.e. Walmart nation.
If the tobacco industry is any crystal ball as to what will eventually happen cheep will rule. The infrastructure already exists to put large amount of seed in the ground. Billions of dollars have been spent in the agricultural world and all based around planting seed. 24 row planters, tractors with tank tracks, giant fertilizer companies like Monsanto will own the industry. I personally cant see it any other way.

As I have said there will be hobbiest just like in the microbrew industry. Maybe 5% of the MJ will be grown with other propagation methods but good ole cheep seed will be the mainstay.

Full disclosure: (tobacco is started from seed but transplanted)

 

[boho]

well I know that one retail place in particular has taken a step in the right direction and has boycotted from selling Greenhouse and Big Buddha Seeds...

Might I ask why boycotted? I decided against Dutch Passion because of what I said earlier, they believe in only making for themselves. My money (speech) is not going to support blockheads with egos.

 

[Sativa Dragon]

Might I ask why boycotted? I decided against Dutch Passion because of what I said earlier, they believe in only making for themselves. My money (speech) is not going to support blockheads with egos.

I wouldn't let my emotions get in the way of purchasing what I wanted. And I wouldn't fault anyone for having an ego, prolly just means they are confident in there product. In my ranks having confidence in your product is a must.

Peace

 

[boho]

I wouldn't let my emotions get in the way of purchasing what I wanted. And I wouldn't fault anyone for having an ego, prolly just means they are confident in there product. In my ranks having confidence in your product is a must.

Peace

I find there tends to be an archtype to high-end product developers and it generally comes from a humble pride. Someone that doesn't let their interests and emotions get in the way of important decisions. I was just calling out that previous breeder because they are quite outspoken about how "they grow what they like".

That's great, and they have done well with very little market competition. But that mentality of this is not conducive to what really makes everyone else happy, and that is "what I want", or "what customer wants"...

This disconnect is the same we see in our states politics. We have a party that has been dealing with almost a dynasty like status because of lack of competition and believes itself the expert in all things and thus the only person capable of judging what is right for all is themselves. Living in the bubble.

 

[silverhazefiend]

Might I ask why boycotted? I decided against Dutch Passion because of what I said earlier, they believe in only making for themselves. My money (speech) is not going to support blockheads with egos.

It wasnt a move about ego ..it involved doing right by the customer ..like INfI stated some companies don't care about quality control ..they just mass produce a medicore product ..and one of the ways to stop that is by refusing to vend such products ..

I think there should be a quality level that some of these major seed producers should have to stand by ..that kind of makes the market restricted in a sense but I think w need it ..alot of these seed producing company's are selling off a name or old reputation ..

Maybe a quality chexk every 2 yrs or so ..with a rating like how they do restaurants ..I think that will keep the competition high and the customer happy ..

 

[Galactic]

Hard to trust when horse meats slides as beef in highly regulated environments. Cannabis? Tall order

 

[boho]

- Quality control check like everything has a born on date.
- Every Quarter you run a germination test from the batch and keep those records. Supply them publicly on a site for customers to review if desired.
- You log seed you put in the refrigerator.

Simple things that everyone should be doing already if your making seed.

- Fresh smoke reports (within 6 months)
- Grow Reports

^ these will hopefully get easier as more legalization, market opens up.

I'm sure there could be more standards but I believe everyone could do the above.

For the community it would be nice to make a standard for various traits.
I know people have been flocking to the idea of THC content for potency as a standard. But we all know it tends to be more a ratio of the cannabinoids that create the "potency" effect.
At the moment I can't think of another trait that hasn't been standardize all things like yield, height, taste, and smell all seem standardizes and measurable.

I would love to actually have a list of traits that could make someone a "good" breeder and thus a standard for the community.

 

[GardenJunky]

with the right genetics anyone can make good seed.. but when someone puts there heart and soul into making seeds with amazing genetics and a great attitude your more likely to see amazing things happen...
anyone that has a heart.. will not charge over 10 bucks a seed.. these people selling a pack for 200 bucks or more is the most rediculous thing ive ever seen.