Clone Death in Coco Problem

[Laughing Jim]

I sure hope somebody out there can help me with this problem.

Every time I transfer rooted cuts into my pots full of fresh coco, they end up DEAD...seems that they lose vitality and start wilting and end up dying.
I have lost some absolutely top-shelf killa' strains like Firestarter, White Fire, Purple Urkle, and Mother of Berries because of this curse.

I'm ready to resort to Joss Sticks and prayer... :/




For any and all advice.

jim

 

[gloryoskie]

• Coco is fully rinsed.
• Water ph'd.
• Low percent nute mix.
• Ambient temps in check.
• Distance from light satisfactory.

If all these criteria are met, clones should be alive
and kicking. Please review technique and post as
much about your process as you can think of.

We'll figure something out.

 

[tommy_greens]

One thing I have noticed is when clones are very small they do not shade the coco much, allowing it to heat up. Pythium root rot will grow rapidly in very warm coco. Also make sure that the pot has proper drainage, for some reason I have had problems with drainage in smaller pots causing over watering and in the end root rot. When i start in 3 gal pots they grow quickly and I can start watering them daily within 1 week to 10 days

 

[draztik]

Make sure that you are rinsing the coco crazy good before planting clones. I go overboard when I'm rinsing my fresh coco, you want that coco to find a balance and be as close as possible to the solution your putting into it. You don't want to use water because it flushes away what is already in the coco leaving the coco unbalanced, if you plant in that coco it will suck away nutes from the plant and probably kill the clones. For clones I flush my coco with a half strength nute solution and 5ml/gal of cal/mag. I let them dry out a little so the roots have to seek water a few times to get them established. Also remember you want good run off because it ensures fresh oxygen is being pulled into the root zone.

 

[NotaProfessor]

What is the temperature you keep the coco-potted clones at? Too cool and your clones will peter out. A buddy took clones of mine, potted them in coco and put them on a bare concrete floor (winter, upper midwest). They got cool enough to kill a couple of them.

 

[bicyclebenny]

I've been having success starting the cuttings in 5 oz cups of coco and then transplanting once well rooted into 2liter soda bottles cut to ~6" tall; then once established in those, they go into 2gal buckets of barely damp coco. The key for me is to not wet the coco in the container I'm transplanting into. My theory is that the roots enjoy the moisture in the coco surrounding the roots and still go searching for moisture and oxygen in the new coco. I water from the bottom in about a week and the resulting new growth in that time has been impressive.
I believe the success of the cuttings is due to the use of calcium hydroxide in my cloning solution and initial watering per this discussion (I haven't lost a cutting since I read this): https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=219683

 

[Laughing Jim]

What is the temperature you keep the coco-potted clones at? Too cool and your clones will peter out. A buddy took clones of mine, potted them in coco and put them on a bare concrete floor (winter, upper midwest). They got cool enough to kill a couple of them.

Interesting reply...my clones were on my bare basement floor...

 

[Snow Crash]

Roots prefer a 55-70 degree rootzone temperature range. Ideally around 62-65. They prefer it cool because it helps maintain a higher dissolved oxygen content in the media.

Gloryoskie has it right.

Your first thing to ensure is that the coco is totally rinsed. Not fresh out of the bag, or even freshly decompressed. Rinse it for peace of mind if nothing else, cuttings need little nutrition and a lower EC so recharging the media with your nutrient ratio is a much smarter idea than praying what the media has to start with is ideal.

I don't find the pH'ing of the water for coco to be much of an issue. In fact, the over use of Phosphoric Acid based products (ex: to combat the pH gains from silicon products) can be extremely problematic for some people. It doesn't seem like a big deal but the media's affinity for that element in a Calcium rich solution can lead to more issues than a Nitric Acid based pH down (TechnaFlora) or even better, an organic acid like Fulvic or Citric Crystals. Since I began using Fulvic Acid as a replacement for my salt based pH down products I have seen dramatic improvement in the health and vigor of my system. I use enough Fulvic to hit a 5.4-5.6pH and the weakly bonded organic acids are broken and buffered to the ideal level by the coco. When it comes to pH and coco... I hardly bother.

A good EC for fresh coco and young rooted cuttings is between 0.6ec and 0.8ec. I am not quite sure what program you are on but what I like to run in 1 gallon of soft (filtered) water is:
2ml-3ml Botanicare Cal-Mag Plus
10ml Canna Rhizotonic
2ml General Organics BioWeed
2ml-3ml of a 5-4-3 or 3-1-4 sort of program (depending on strain variety)

There is the potential that you are overdosing your plants too early so definitely error on the safe side with the nutrients and let them ask you for more.

The best canopy temperatures for cuttings is between 72 and 80 degrees, hopefully around 76 to 78 most of the day. Low humidity can put transpiration stress on the plant which a young root system simply cannot supply and you get a lot of margin and edge burn from that. Keep your rh levels over 60% for sure (normally anything over 40% for a rooted cutting is fine but in your case I think it's best to aim high) and up to 80% humidity for the first week or so as they get situated. This will help the leafs stay cool and photosynthesis moving at a steady pace.

If you are having a problem with high EC media, high temps and low humidity, then backing the lights off a little will decrease the photosynthetic stress and allow your plants a more gentle rate of growth.

The last thing I would like to add is that the media should be allowed a more soil-like wet/dry cycle as the cuttings fill in the media. A fully rooted plant in coco pretty much cannot be over watered; 5x a day is a-ok. But a week root system subjected to consistently saturated conditions will struggle even in this porous media. If you have been potentially over watering them, under the auspices of the impossibility of doing so in coco, then this is an area that is easy to fix while actually reducing your work load.

Best of luck hombre!