Everybody a breeder ?

[SooperSmurph]

without forced labor, genocide, socialism or dictators... are you kidding me???


I don't know where in the hell you think you live! lol

Some people suffer under the delusion that America spread freedom after WW2, kinda like the tards who think a Donkey is going to save them from an Elephant.

Teddy Roosevelt was an imperialistic piece of shit but he was the last major politician in this country who made any effort to avoid the monolith of corruption we have in place of a government now.

 

[Frogmann]

kinda like the tards who think a Donkey is going to save them from an Elephant.

oh my, here we go..

 

[Infinitesimal]

Some people suffer under the delusion that America spread freedom after WW2, kinda like the tards who think a Donkey is going to save them from an Elephant.

Teddy Roosevelt was an imperialistic piece of shit but he was the last major politician in this country who made any effort to avoid the monolith of corruption we have in place of a government now.

View Image

oh my, here we go..

yeah sorry guys I didnt mean to derail... just couldn't leave that GEM of insight alone.

back to the subject at hand...

selecting a quality female is easy (though still many are not well versed in what makes something truly amazing quality and therefore many poor female selections are made by some of the closet pollen checkers and the for market seed makers alike)... it is finding a male plant amongst a population that passes on desirable traits to it daughters which is the challenge... as the male will not express these traits himself...

and there in lies one of the many mistakes I see... poor male selection... based on poor criteria and misinformation on what actually distinguishes a quality male from the rest of the herd

Breeding... Hemp into Marijuana/Brickweed into Kind Cannabis...​

also yes... you can breed high quality drug trait characteristics from the lowly hemp plant or some schwagg mexi brick... but...
do you have acres of land in a good cannabis hot spot location?... can you grow multiple thousands of plants outdoors in full sun every growing season?... and can you dedicate over a hundred if not multiple hundreds of years to this development???...

obviously you can't live long enough to accomplish this no matter HOW awesome a breeder you are and so even if you had awesome land and by some miracle you can legally grow thousands of plants outdoors... you would still never see your dreams of creating a strain from hemp or Bammer bag seed come to fruition... it would be a goal that would be set for your great grandchildren or maybe even further along the family tree...

in other words without cannabis legalization... and freedom in general... this goal is simply no longer possible and a moot point to bring up in the context of modern breeding

 

[vince514]

great thread silverhazefiend intresting topic.. i for one have made home made X's for personal use and to spread amongst friends but at some point i think anyone who has made home made crosses thinks about selling them at some point whether or not serious about it or just joking about it with friends...but i agree with many points made about private breeders, for it and also cautious about it , the fact that people are offering S1's of clone only genetics is a good thing for people who normally cant get their hands on a clone but now can get a close replica of the original in seed form...but the skeptical part in me wonders how these breeders got their male pollen from a female clone? light stress,collodial silver, gibberllic acid whatever the method unless documented who's to know if the reversed fem was truly stable or not...... maybe im talkin out my ass but we all have an opinion....im for and also cautious about the flood of genetics offered these days...as mentioned previously "buyer beware..." the best option is to be educated about the product before shelling out a couple bucks...imho

 

[Sativa Dragon]

I believe in the end what we end up with collectively is still better than previous generations, the best gene pool is the largest one, with only a select few crossing you will never see the many expressions of cannabis there is to see. Perhaps I may have a male that no one else has and I pollenate a female of desirable nature, the outcome should contain with in its genes the traits you want, while not creating a stable strain you have created something new from which could rise a star. I believe in potential and am optimistic that anyone who works hard enough can achieve whatever they want.

Peace

 

[Frogmann]

yeah sorry guys I didnt mean to derail... just couldn't leave that GEM of insight alone.

hehe, yeah it's all good.

was trying to respect his opinion, but using the word tard loses all credibility with any intellectual.

 

[SooperSmurph]

hehe, yeah it's all good.

was trying to respect his opinion, but using the word tard loses all credibility with any intellectual.

Your mistake was thinking that any comment related to the modern american political system has any chance of being "intellectual" in the classical sense.

Hard to be polite when speaking of cesspools, learn to love it.

 

[VenturaHwy]

Very few people in the US can plant a thousand seeds because it is not legal.... yet. So the way it works in the US is we have millions of growers popping seeds and when someone finds an elite he or she shares it with friends. If it truly is an elite it may find it's way into the dispensaries and to thousands of growers.

An elite would be a triple, great high, smell, and taste and hopefully yield ok. Now a seed maker comes along and uses the elites to make seeds for those of us who do not live in cali or do not want to risk getting spider mites. That is the way it works until one day it becomes legal in the US.

 

[kamyo]

I'd like to think that a lot of these people are doing us a service, for which we can pay them. I'd like X plant, but it's too prone to mold out here, so if only I could have it crossed with a sativa and available at a decent price. Here comes X Seeds with exactly what I'm looking for. Are they a 'real' breeder? We have established that they most definitely aren't, but they are still producing something worthwhile. As far as people just taking clones and crossing them to a backcrossed seed version of a similar clone, I'll pass on that. Just not my sort of thing. But there are a lot of people who buy that shit up. Like someone said - capitalism. Supply & demand. I'm still trying to figure out how there can be so many fucking versions of OG Kush, though. A little off topic, but damn.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

Wow this thread has turned into a steaming pile of shit.

Let's talk more about all the things we don't like.

I think so many seed flippers like to use clone only's because the work is already done, the name is already established and tons of peeps will buy shit based on name alone.

Let's get real here, clone only's are just good pheno's, nothing more nothing less.

If these guys had to do actual breeding nobody would do it because it can be a long process and not many have the skills patience to pull off such a task. There is a handful of real breeders and they're not the one hyping their shit up constantly, most of them are very humble.

I bet more small timers working in their closets are more apt to do real breeding, because they dedicate time and their limited resources to pursue their true herbal interests and not just popping out names to cash in on hype.

 

[Hammerhead]

I would rather use something from Kaiki his experience is invaluable... I dont use any seeds from people I dont know. There are very few breeders that I will use there stock to work with. 95% of the seeds on the market today I dont use in my breeding plans.. Using a clone only and then making a cross calling it xxx does not make you a breeder. you are a seed maker plain and simple. It can take a lifetime to become a breeder of cannabis. There are no more Apprentices to learn from the breeders. this bother me to no end.

 

[Sativa Dragon]

I bet more small timers working in their closets are more apt to do real breeding, because they dedicate time and their limited resources to pursue their true herbal interests and not just popping out names to cash in on hype.

Closet is about 500 times to small to do an serious breeding IMO.

However seed flippers do have a place, and so do breeders.

I would not pay for seedflippers gear if I wanted anything special.

My opinion.

Peace

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

Closet is about 500 times to small to do an serious breeding IMO.

However seed flippers do have a place, and so do breeders.

I would not pay for seedflippers gear if I wanted anything special.

My opinion.

Peace

Yes I know a closet is too small, the point I was getting at is there is peeps out there that will pop seeds of the same strain many times throughout the year, many years in a row and search for the best from small lots.

I know because I am one of them, I have a modest sized grow, but there is strains I have been searching thru and working with for 7 years. Im not calling myself a breeder I am just saying there is small time growers out there that really dedicate themselves to strains they thoroughly enjoy. They take the time to grow them time and time again, experiment with them, get to know them, cross them to other strains they really like, inbreed them etc...

Not like the seed flippers that get a hyped up clone, and on the first grow with it they are chucking it to whatever they have to make a quick buck. Never even properly authenticating said cut before they cross it for resale.

There is a few ways you can go about things, grow a shit load of plants once, or grow small lots year after year.

I think if you have been growing long enough and have run enough gear you know how to separate the real players from the profiteers.

 

[silverhazefiend]

People will get derailed ..
How did we go from breeders to government ?

@ whoever ..if u have a opinion ON THIS subject by all means I'm all ears good or bad ..but besides that' there's a whole politics section ..I'm tryna just keep this on track for people who might read it in the future ..I hate when I'm reading a good thread and it goes south ..

Back to the subject ..lets get to some facts and see what we end up with
Would u agree there has been a MAJOR influx of seed companies every year ?
There's some explanation for that ..the best one being the legalization of more states

Seed makers do have a place in the whole scheme of things but where is it ?
ALOT of people complain that older varietys are lost ..they been hybridized so much it's a cesspool (that's for u political guys lol) ..although we need to mix varietys to make new genetics ..but ALOT of it is not needed ..look at skunk #1 ..every company offers there version ..statistically it's impossible for all of them to be of the same caliber ..and it's almost impossible to say that any of them have any relation to the Original ..

Who's fault is that the breeder ? Or the seed makers ? Granted some great hybrids came from tht plant and alot of not so great ones ..I think if seed makers of that time new how valuable a pure skunk would be or pure northern lights ..they would have approached it with a diffrent aspect ..and not just whored it out ..

Seed makers do have a place in the bizz ..not everyone can afford to purchase seeds directly from the breeder or they might have a cross of two highly sought after strains ..and can get it out to the people for a good price be my guest ...
But when breeder A put out kush and charges 80$ then breeder B puts out kush charges 80$
Seed maker puts out kush AB for 80$ ...who is this benefitting ? How do u justify this price ?

I think it's sad that u can't find older pure varietys anymore ..why ? Bc it's been whored out and this is a continuing trend and it's exploding even faster than b4 ..it's mind boggling I can't find a nice pure Hindu Kush but I can find 1000x og kush crosses ..and Hindu Kush is a much older variety ..if more people decided to be diffrent and do a lil bit of preservation mixed with some newer varietys ..the seed game will be in a better place yrs to come ..

From what I've read selecting a male is some hard work ..does this justify hitting 15 clone onlys with one male ..the first 5 might be highly sought after but the other 10 Was it needed ?
What I'm seeing also is people just making blatant copy's of other people's work ..and I don't mean f2s ..I mean replicas ..if a breeder is using a certain male in most of his projects ..why would u take a male from a PACK of seeds and do the same ?
Why would I buy ur selection when the orginal breeder is still using the ORGINAL male in his crosses ..bc he had good luck with it ur just cashing in on someone else name ..and if he's charging 70 bucks for his and ur charging 50$ ..i will pay the extra 20 just for the peace of mind and to be sure of what I'm getting

But like in the jungle it's survival of the fittest so well see

 

[Sativa Dragon]

Can't do any Serious breeding unless you can keep at least a thousand plants IMO

Peace

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

Can't do any meaningful breeding unless you can keep at least a thousand plants IMO

Peace

Nobody is doing that.

Except maybe in india, afghanistan or africa where a farmer can run thousands on a mountain side and they just continually inbreed the same strain year after year.

To run a 1000 plants and to grow them to optimal performance is one hell of an endeavor and expensive to boot.

And if you are just half assing the gardening how can you make accurate selections if the plants were not grown to fullest potential.
How can you be a good breeder if you can't grow excellent plants. I've seen it myself the same clone grown over and over but produces very different results. sometimes I would have thrown that clone away if that was my only experience with it, and grown again and it was excellent.

The mexican cartels are pros at running huge operations but their gardening skills are lacking.

 

[Sativa Dragon]

I think the breeders still have the edge if they hang onto there breeding stock, and do not let it out, just cross it everytime that way they keep the original all the time, no matter what. I do not believe certain strains are lost, I think they are still around but kept out of circulation. Everything old will become new again.

This way seed makers are always second, always!

Peace

 

[silverhazefiend]

Haze that's so right ..u should be a good grower b4 a seed maker or breeder ..

 

[Frogmann]

Good points guys/gals!

Equipment, nutrients, additives, and substrate all cost alot of money. Especially if you want to make quality seeds. Not to mention the risks alone are worth a certain amount. Please keep all of this in mind. I'm happy to pay a certain amount for said seeds..always have been. What is my limit per seed?..It would depend on the circumstance.

But, as I can see from reading all your post, is that everyone has a certain limit in mind what they are willing to pay given the product at hand. This is up to all of you to decide, because you are the consumers. Like I said earlier in this thread before it was sabotaged, the consumer is god. You have a right to inform these seed makers that it's too much money.

You all know who these seed sellers are..they post on this site and others. Speak to them and discuss what is important to you in regard to price, quality, untested products, misinformation, etc. I'm sure most of these seed sellers are reasonable people and will be happy to discuss your concerns and comments. Some of course will not be reasonable, and will stop at nothing to continue to line their pockets...including sabotaging threads that threaten their insatiable greed.

In conclusion, I encourage all of you to:

a) Discuss this topic further amongst your peers
b) Discuss this with seed sellers and those involved
c) Do more research before making purchases
d) Vote with your pocketbooks


Thank you all for the positive rep and for hanging in there. Everyones opinions and comments on this thread have been very enlightening.

 

[Sativa Dragon]

Nobody is doing that.

Except maybe in india, afghanistan or africa where a farmer can run thousands on a mountain side and they just continually inbreed the same strain year after year.

To run a 1000 plants and to grow them to optimal performance is one hell of an endeavor and expensive to boot.

And if you are just half assing the gardening how can you make accurate selections if the plants were not grown to fullest potential.
How can you be a good breeder if you can't grow excellent plants. I've seen it myself the same clone grown over and over but produces very different results. sometimes I would have thrown that clone away if that was my only experience with it, and grown again and it was excellent.

The mexican cartels are pros at running huge operations but their gardening skills are lacking.

I have heard of wharehouse grows. Have you heard of them?
1000 plants are not uncommon my friend.

Your on the internet now, Google it!!

Peace