Everybody a breeder ?

[silverhazefiend]

I'm getting some decent feedback ..this is what I wanted to see the community's thoughts on the whole idea ..and I respect the manner in which these responses are given also ..I don't want anyone to feel targeted ..just think outside the box with me for a minute

There's some good points made in here I wanted to point out ..but I will do it as one collective post later on hopefully ..

Someone else in this thread said some thing I missed on 2 ..and it's really a big part of this bizz
"Desire ability" -this is VERY important ..this is what makes us buy seeds ..nobody wants to spend big money on a cross of 2 strains in existence ..so having something desirable is key ..people like myself are looking for different / exotic plants ..or anything out of the normal that's intriguing..this is fading ..I don't find strains to stand out like they used to me while shopping ..

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

Hype is nauseating, so is watching one dude blow another dude for free seeds.

 

[willyweed]

well you are dammed if you do,and dammed if you don't.what if they find the cure for cancer in somebody's 120/120 tent by accident ? everybody steals everybody else's seeds, clones,names at one time or another.it is impossible to patent something that grows wild as a weed .if it spreads the love and help to people that need it ,via whatever course it takes to get there, it has to be a good thing.we lose species of plants and animals every year,sometimes because of our actions,sometimes because of our inaction(lack of action)

 

[Weird]

If we properly preserve the diversity of marijuana and breed it naturally we will not see all the potential phenotypes of all the potential crosses in one lifetime

im sure there is still some magic to be found

 

[SooperSmurph]

Unfortunately people tend to think Cannabis is some unique miracle.

People have been playing in their gardens and making plant crosses for centuries, "breeders" are people who produce those varieties for a living or simply in perpetuity.

A person chucking pollen between tomato plants in their backyard does not call themselves a breeder (unless really delusional) so why are there so many people calling themselves breeders after a couple cannabis crosses?

Breeding is a subset of the study of genetics, and unless that's a field of study you can genuinely throw yourself into, you're not a breeder, you're a gardener like countless before you.

 

[trem0lo]

I think anything that increases the market demand for cannabis is a good thing. The fact that these pollen chuckers (so-called) are doing well means that there is demand for seeds. So more people are growing... I have no problem with this. The actual breeders will have to step up their game to keep up. Personally, and speaking from experience, most of them need a marketing makeover.

What we need as connoisseurs is a vetting process for the questionable breeders; maybe some kind of feedback system. The results are in their respective forums, and it's not like they're growing bad pot.

 

[Cmobile9]

I understand what your saying it is a valid point, but for the past 50-60 years every other country song has been talking about opening up a six pack of tall boys. Bud, or whatever the case now everybody wants to bash a rapper for rapping about smoking smoke.

Plead your case but keep your lines straight don't get jealous because you can't sound desirable on the mic. Sound like your talking into a milk crate full of kittens.

 

[Swampwater]

I don't see anything wrong with trying your hand at breeding. I encourage it. Id hope that everyone takes the proper steps and do it right. We're really blessed to have so many people to learn from, old pros sharing their knowledge & experience. We're fortunate and we have a leg up on earlier generations thanks to the Internet. There's really no reason to do it half assed with the amount of available info at our fingertips, mostly impart to communities just like this one.

Now as far as the business aspect goes... It's a seedy business. As long as people buy seeds from 'breeders' who reverse a clone only strain, pollinate another clone only strain, and put it on the market at $80 a pack before ever even testing the offspring, they'll keep doing it. So stop buying them, and ask this breeders- have you grown these out? Photos?
That's really my biggest gripe, breeders who sell beans before growing them out. It's not that they're bad, it's just... They should be tested.

So the solution lies in:
A. You the customer. Don't buy them and let the breeder know- "not untill you test them".
B. the venders who allow these breeders to sell untested seeds. They should be labeled as 'untested' and priced as such.

 

[unspoken]

Yeah guys, you're not hard.

 

[Infinitesimal]

I understand what your saying it is a valid point, but for the past 50-60 years every other country song has been talking about opening up a six pack of tall boys. Bud, or whatever the case now everybody wants to bash a rapper for rapping about smoking smoke.

Plead your case but keep your lines straight don't get jealous because you can't sound desirable on the mic. Sound like your talking into a milk crate full of kittens.

you flow homie?

I respect the mic control but, break it down for me one more time, what does that have to do with being a legitimate breeder?

--------------------------

I have been wanting to touch on this subject for a while myself (but to truly express my feelings I would have to get very long winded and will save that for another day and another thread)...

because I see a lot of irresponsible pollen chucking from both the garden enthusiast to the more well known long standing "breeders" alike... only a few of the main line industry breeders do things the way they should be done... and with a bit of understanding and diligent research it is fairly easy to discern one from the other... (Tom Hill, Chimera, Sam, Charlie and a few others are really the standard for what should be considered a breeder)

though it makes it tough on everyone and especially tough for those who wish to do it correctly, to stand out when dealing with prohibitive laws that make it near impossible to do the work that is truly necessary to really move things forward.

Peace,
Infi

 

[siftedunity]

i dont know where the myth that breeding is hard actually arose. its very easy. selecting for decent parents isnt hard, bacrossing isnt hard.

tbh anyone can do it. some of the best clone onlys are from random bagseed so thats proof in itself.

the only time a person could rally be called out for being a shit breeder is if they send out shit gentics, herm prone or seeds that dont grow.

apart from that i think we need to forget the myth that you have to be a fantastic person to throw some strains out.

 

[strass]

Not much you can do about it. Mind your own business and support the real breeders with your $.

 

[Greyskull]

the only time a person could rally be called out for being a shit breeder is if they send out shit gentics, herm prone or seeds that dont grow.

i think your statement kinda proves that selecting for parents IS hard....

doesnt matter what you know or what you have to work with or how long a line has been worked...
if you cant select for shit, its all for not.

seems to be that way....

 

[Infinitesimal]

i dont know where the myth that breeding is hard actually arose. its very easy. selecting for decent parents isnt hard, bacrossing isnt hard.

tbh anyone can do it. some of the best clone onlys are from random bagseed so thats proof in itself.

the only time a person could rally be called out for being a shit breeder is if they send out shit gentics, herm prone or seeds that dont grow.

apart from that i think we need to forget the myth that you have to be a fantastic person to throw some strains out.

sorry for rambling on, I am not picking on you siftedunity but you do give me the opportunity to make a point

that is just not true... even many of the industry leaders (sales wise) do nothing more than what you speak of, and their gear is known for sucking balls (greenhouse, Big Buddha, Barneys, Paradise, Dutch Passion etc.) so it is not NEAR as easy as you may believe/make it seem

there is a difference between a myth and a misunderstanding...
just like there is a difference between making seeds... and breeding with an understanding of genetic inheritance, having the skill to select the best individuals (believe it or not, being able to identify a special individual among a population truly is a skill and many if not most people simple cannot do it as well as a certain few people can!) and doing the necessary work...

The necessary work... as in making several test crosses, growing out the progeny, plotting the gene frequency of the offspring and mapping out the alleles of the parent stock in order to determine for certain which individual parents among a population are reliable for passing on certain traits to their offspring... all of which are necessary and truly are just the beginning of what should be done when "breeding"

what you are referring to, plain and simply, is making seeds... which yes any six year old who can water plants can do... but I, personally, am not interested in any seeds some six year old made... and you cannot breed if you start with seeds from a seed maker and not an actual cannabis breeder... your recipe is limited by your starting ingredients (if that makes any sense)

breeding depends a lot on the seed stock someone starts with (are they a landrace, are they a worked and stable line from a true breeder... OR are they just some seeds made by some seed maker who used a pack of this random cross and a pack of that random cross and let the males pollinate the females?? ya see the difference? now which ones someone uses as there starting point in their "breeding" project makes a HUGE difference)... how many individuals are in someones initial population to select from and how stable those starting varieties are for their desirable traits are all things that to many people overlook and really is only the starting point... before all the WORK that needs to be done to truly breed anything worth while...

so lets not spread the misinformation that all someone needs to do is... select a male plant, select a female plant, let them fuck and now suddenly that person is a breeder... because outside of dumb luck, the seeds they make will more than likely not be up to the quality standards that many (such as myself) require and most certainly will not be stable for that quality... if you pop enough of any random seed you should find a good plant in there somewhere but I, and most customers, want a great plant from say 5 females or less... which the average seed maker would not likely be able to produce!... FACT!

the proof is in the phenotypes, if one made seeds the way you describe I would be willing to bet that... seeds made by a true professional cannabis breeder would show a much higher frequency for outstanding individuals than would the homemade ones... meaning that if each plant of each phenotype were logged and followed all the way through from seedling to harvest... one would see a large discrepancy in quality from the homemade variety to the professional variety as far as the ratio of females found to keepers found... ya dig?

Peace,
Infi

 

[lee van keef]

Most people selling seeds are pollen chuckers.

You need a deep understanding of the study of genetics to be a real breeder.

As someone who has taken an undergraduate genetics class - which I learned from but only really confused me further - genetic concepts are not easy to grasp.

There are maybe two frequent posters on this entire site that have given me the impression that they understand what they are doing with breeding.

edit: infinitesimal is more eloquent than I. What he said.

 

[Happy 7]

...
You need a deep understanding of the study of genetics to be a real breeder.
...

It sure helps, but no you don't.
Wolves have been bred into dogs, grass into wheat and hemp into the finest drug cultivars by people who didn't even know the word 'genetics'.
All you need to do is to keep track of what you're doing, observe, conclude and make proper selections towards your goal, but even that is too much for most.

Btw, the wizards will always try to convince you that they're the only ones who can do magic...

 

[Frogmann]

Happy 7, that is a very good point dude.

But, not all people pay attention to every aspects of the plant and its effects. Personally I pay very close attention to peoples behavior after they smoke a particular strain or hybrid. The mental effects are very important to me and show true potential as viable medicine or even breeding stock.

Edit: that's weird I'm getting a double post idk ??

 

[chefboy6969]

I only have 4 word's for all here

STOP THE KUSH CRAZE

There are so many varieties of fine cannabis strains from all over the world and some TRUE breeders are working with some amazing genetics... But I find most of the wannabe "breeders" are Kush crazed...they don't know anything else...It's very sad...we are bottle-necking the worlds cannabis strains by crossing every fucking strain with some sort of KUSH...PLEASE PRESERVE DO NOT WATER DOWN OUR BELOVED PLANT

peace
Chefboy

 

[Herb Tarlek]

I couldn't agree more! I'm not a big fan of most of the hyped strains and hybrids OGKs, Diesels, Chems, etc. Yes, they are often potent, look nice, and have good flavors. But, the cannabinoid profile does not suit my chemistry for extended periods of heavy smoking. Yet, they are still in demand, so call it what you will(hype, etc). It's funny, I was making concentrates for a friends dispensory from strains and hybrids I prefer to smoke on a daily basis. Most were not selling extremely fast, so the owner decided to relabel them OG "this" or "that". Suddenly they were sold out fast.

I enjoy a cannabinoid profiles that leaves me feeling like a better person, or better than I was in one way or another than before I smoked..or even those that elevate my mind for meditation, creativity, etc. Versus most of the hyped stuff, better suited for drug addicts.

I have alot of respect for the old school breeders. Always loved most of the classics from the 90's and even early 2000's. Such as, SSH, NL5xHz, SWT3, KM, ISS, BB, WW, etc. Really loved most things from the canadian guys, and some of the american and euro guys too..Such as Red, Steve, DJ, Federation guys, and others.

It's unfortunate alot of those classics are not as popular, have been lost, has changed, or is just different/diluted than it was. It's also unfortunate most of those old guys can't stand forums, because of the way young people act today. Most of us old dudes have a descent amount of respect for people in general and were not raised on internet "banter" and reality TV.

Yes, it annoys me too sometimes..but, ultimately it has no real effect on me because I choose to do my own thing and not follow the hype too closely.

Hope you find what you're looking for. Thanks for your post silverhaze. It's refreshing to hear a similar mindset sometimes.

GREAT POST!

 

[hamstring]

It sure helps, but no you don't.
Wolves have been bred into dogs, grass into wheat and hemp into the finest drug cultivars by people who didn't even know the word 'genetics'.
All you need to do is to keep track of what you're doing, observe, conclude and make proper selections towards your goal, but even that is too much for most.

Btw, the wizards will always try to convince you that they're the only ones who can do magic...

Great post but I think you are confusing truth with science. Yes what you said was true but the science is another thing. Foxes were bread for tameness in a famous Russian breeding experiment and that took 50 years of breeding by a scientist.

There are no written accounts of when the wolf or wheat became domesticated but you can bet it took hundreds if not thousands of years.

So could a person with no formal education in genetics who is just pollen chucking make a stable strain with the traits he was after yes but its not as easy as it sounds.