Hydro shop scammed me for $400 H&G

[Eyeslo]

This post will probably drag on longer than the Twighlight saga so i'll get started. I'd say my first three grows were pretty successful. All over an lb with 600w hps Readygro and CES nutes. Sometime during the final weeks of my last grow I read an artical on Kushman Veganics which gave me an instant woodie for plant based nutes. I wanted to try the method my next go-round so I go to my local hydro shop and ask if they have anything plant based. He walks me over to the House&Garden section and starts pitching Aqua Flakes(which they had a surplus of now that I think about it). The clerk starts telling me how great it is, how he uses it, how it's not even comparable to CES cause "it's a whole different beast" blah blah blah. Tells me it'll work in a coco dtw system when I ask then convinces me the entire line is necessary because it's the only way to change the formulation for bloom. Anyway, I walk out with the full monty. 2.5 gals each A-B and all the additives to the tune of $420 exactly. What a coincidence. He must have seen my fat pocket when I walked in.

I get the nutes home and run them as per his "bomb recipe" and after harvesting a mere nine oz of fluffy foxtail buds that never swelled from twelve deficient plants, I did a little research. Come to find, Aqua Flakes is soft rock phos based and designed for recirculating hydro. I had been had. I do have one good thing to say thoe. The oil content was good, which lead me to believe H&G could still be good stuff.

I have been trying to figure out how to if at all possible make the Aqua Flakes compatible with coco since I have over two gals A-B left and some additives. I know from info on the H&G website that they drasticly under claim the percentages on their guarenteed analisis for lame reasons and dont even have enough info listed on the GA to appear complete. This makes it next to impossible for me to feel comfortable trying to reformulate using a nutrient calculator.

I would love to not get totally screwed on this deal and be able to use the rest of the nutes with success. Are there any botanical geniuses out there that can help me with my problem?

Thanks for any and all replies.

Future sig... If it ain't broke...

 

[FlowerFarmer]

Best to do your own research when it comes to hydro-store trips.
If you just walk blindly into a purchase from someone interested in their profit margin you might leave with bit more then intended.


I've never ran Aqua Flakes, but what issues did you experience running it in coco? Their website states that you can use it in coco and there are people using it in coco around the web.

Because its designed for a recirculating system maybe you where using it a little too strong and causing lockout in coco? What EC where you feeding at? Maybe seeing Ca- issues. The coco formula has a lot more I believe.

From the house-garden.us website.

Derived From: Calcium Nitrate, Ammonium Nitrate, Nitric Acid, Potassium Hydroxide, Phosphoric Acid Anhydride, Magnesium Sulfate.

Ingredients Explained: The complete base nutrient for expanded clay, Oasis Cubes, Rockwool and Coco. Aqua Flakes A&B is specially formulated for recirculating hydroponic systems. As with all House & Garden products, Aqua Flakes A&B is extremely concentrated and has a low dilution rate. House & Garden maintains their own nutrient manufacturing facility as well as their own laboratories where they continually test each batch of fertilizer they produce. This ensures that gardeners employing House & Garden receive high quality, consistent products.

Application: Aqua Flakes A&B is used for the plant’s entire life, dosage will very.

If you cant seem to make the Aqua work I wouldn't exactly say you've been had for $420. Just grab the Coco A/B. H&G is pretty good stuff according to many. There are people using it DTW Coco (some claiming its better then the coco) so maybe you were seeing issues due to other factors (dosage, ph, water frequencies, heat, etc). ??

 

[talktosamson]

I call this, drinking the cool aid at the hydro store, DON'T DRINK IT!!!!

 

[Eyeslo]

Thanks for the reply Farmer but I run a pretty tight ship. Temps 72-76 max low and high. Water .1 EC Ph5.7-6.0. RH 50-60 veg and 40-45 end flower. A 400cfm inline changes the air in my cab multiple times a min.

I fed per the hydro guys recipe and EC was 2.8 at the highest. I never feed that much myself but at the time I figured he knows something I dont. At least about H&G.

The reason I was absolutely "had" was because I asked for plant based nutes and he led me to believe H&G Aqua was.

I have been doing a bit more looking into the Aqua Flakes and am convinced now that it contains too much K. Alot of K in fact. If mixed in equal parts it has 9.93%. That sounds more like anti coco nutes to me. The defs I encountered were typical. Everything was fine till about 3-4 weeks in then Mg and Ca def.

I think I can get it to work at 6ml each A-B but not without a big P and Mg boost. Maybe a little N boost and i would have to play the Ca by ear due to there being no listing for it on the GA or the websites own lab GA. This is the way the Aqua flakes profile stands with 6ml each A-B alone.

N81
P26
K144
Mg14

Any Input is greatly appreciated

 

[EclipseFour20]

And if they emblazoned cartoon characters on the label--you were doubly duped!...imho.

 

[megayields]

Unless you know who your dealing with at hydro WHORE shops, don't believe a word that comes out of that stoned ass idiot mouth.....I happen to be lucky in our town they "actually" hire one or two (I won't even talk to the other 14-15 idiots that work their) that know something about growing ....BUT do your own research like everyone else is saying.

Been their ..done that....and it sucks big time!

 

[high life 45]

The majority of peeps working at the growstore dont grow, or cant grow well. If they did, its not likely they would be working a growstore. I know exceptions to the rule, but think about it.

 

[greenmatter]

the grow store is just like a car dealership

if you don't know what you want before you walk in the door you are gonna get screwed 9 times out of 10

 

[Eyeslo]

Well, cant say I havn't learned things the hard way before but this was a little different. I had been going to this shop for two years with no problems. I chose them after going around to three different shops, this was when I first started growing. I ran my plans by the owners at each shop then listened to what they had to input and made my judgment based on my feel for people in general and what they said vs my own knowlege.

The reason I chose them was because when I talked to the owner my first visit, he actually wouldn't sell me things. I mentioned wanting a Raptor reflector to mate up with my 600 switchable cause it would fit my cab almost wall to wall. He said he wouldn't recomend it for anything but a 1k and ended up selling me a hood for $100 rather than $250 for the Raptor. It was the only shop of the three that wouldn't just sell me whatever or sugest something that would up-sell me. Also they were the only shop open sundays and that was the only day the owner worked.

I normally would only make trips to the shop sundays because of my work and on this occation I was so stoked about veganics I went on a wednesday. Needless to say, that was the first time I delt with someone other than the owner. My guess is some looser imployee looking to boost his sales not caring about the rep of the shop.

You know... now that im thinking about it, the owner is a good guy. Never done me wrong. I think sunday I'll go to the shop and talk to him and see what comes of it.

Thanks for the sympathy guys but some targeted advice would be much appreciated. Maybe a link to someone using Aqua Flakes in coco with success?

 

[Hammerhead]

I have been having emails with the H&G rep. He keeps telling me I should be using Aqua flakes in Soil. I will have better results. I disregarded his suggestion and got soil A&B

 

[irobot sd]

2.8 feeding seems really high. Especially if you are feeding coco dtw. My guess is you burnt them at the beginning of flower and they never recovered.

 

[cocktail frank]

there's people on icmag that use aqua flakes in coco w/ no problems.

 

[Hammerhead]

im pretty sure Aqua flakes is for coco..It's for hydro and coco is hydro..

 

[barefootseeds]

the shop that has sole distribution for H&G near me sucks at stocking it is often sold out. because of this i have resorted to using the aqua flakes base in coco, the soil base in a recirculating rockwool system. i haven't had any failures because of that and one run was close to a gram per watt running the soil base in recirculating hydro lol

 

[otis33]

2.8 is very high, in my experience. I use coco a+ b, but I feed@1.2, 1.6 at the very most most with stellar results. I follow the feed schedule for the additives, but don't use more than 5ml/gal of a+ b. I've heard others who feed at 7ml/gal with good results, that would probably put them at about 2ec. with additives. maybe try a lower ec and a little cal mag.

 

[Hammerhead]

in coco everyone I know never goes more then 1.2ec

 

[Galactic]

I wouldnt worry too much Eyeslo. H&G is a solid company. Generally most lineups found at the shops are more than adequate for Anyone of us.

Follow their chart since you have the whole lineup. Cut it to 1/4 strength and increase until you are seeing what you're used to seeing. You know, the normal routine for anything new.

 

[drknockbootz]

Buddy H&G works really well.
Ive ran thier schedule which hovers around 2.0 ec at its highest point and feel its too high, leaves where way too green. So 2.8 is way to high. 1.2-1.6 ec is more ideal.
I also ran aqua flakes multiple times in coco and had no problems.

Good luck

 

[medicalmj]

We probably have all been duped once by the snake oil salesman. Unless something terrible wrong with the batch tho, you should be able to tweak it and get back to where you were.

Here's a little tidbit. Nutes should not be thought of as "plant food". All the mass of a plant comes from one thing, inorganic carbon, i.e. CO2. There's a limit to that tho to. 1600-1800 ppm is bout the limit of not wasting money, or if to high slowing growth. Think of nutes as the facilitators. Like the bong not the weed.

And like many are pointing out, 2.8 is high! I run 1.2-1.4 EC dtw and shit rocks (GH three part w rapid, floralic, koolbloom for flower with 1/4 strength cal mag)

 

[TribalSeeds]

Flakes is for recirculating systems, including coco. Theres enough cal in there already.
2.8 is like twice as much food as they should need.
I wouldnt use much of the additives. I just used the base without calmag and didnt have any deficiencies.